Carbon Ceramic Brakes - Leaning to yes, your opinion?

[RussianPete]

thanks everyone. i will not be getting these brakes haha. i thought they would be a nice touch when i get rid of the car for the re sale value.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by ptrubetskoy

I was wondering if the carbon ceramic brakes are really worth the 8.1k if i might be tracking only once or twice a year.

Tracking the car is NOT a reason to get CC Brakes.
Proper track pads will stop the car with steel rotors equally well, or better.

CCB's are great for lower weight, lower dusting, and lower maintenance (don't need to swap pads for track) and longer lifespan.

I would personally consider them if they were a $1K option, and if the cost of replacement pads/rotors was at most 2x of the traditional pads / rotors. Not at $8K premium at purchase and $5K replacement cost of consumables ...

Originally Posted by absoluteis350

[...]I bought the CCBs. I will be tracking my car once every 2-3 years and I still got them. I expect better braking distances, low to almost no brake dust, and better heat dissipation.

I REFUSE to believe that BMW engineers, spent time researching, testing and equipping their M cars only to have their CCB brakes, an 8k option, be outperformed by the standard M brakes. This is what some members claim.

Sorry to break your heart, but you will see ZERO brake distance variance between steel and CCB brakes.
On track / high temperature environments, one would need to swap high-temp / track pads (admittedly a nuisance) to match/exceed CCB consistency. Those can be had for ~$600 for all four corners.

Street cold weather downsides of CCB brakes were well described by CSanto.

a

[CRtoE92]

With $8100, you could buy all M performance parts for your M except the exhaust

[absoluteis350]

Originally Posted by afadeev

I would personally consider them if they were a $1K option, and if the cost of replacement pads/rotors was at most 2x of the traditional pads / rotors. Not at $8K premium at purchase and $5K replacement cost of consumables ...

Great points.. the only thing I would add is that the replacement cost is a theoretical.. I have not seen anyone having to replace the rotors yet (these have been on the M5/6 too) and they are reported to last the lifetime of the car (quoted by BMW). So if you don't track the car, you should never have to change the rotors, period. So the replacement cost is not an issue.

Originally Posted by afadeev

Sorry to break your heart, but you will see ZERO brake distance variance between steel and CCB brakes.

Just curious, is this proven ? Has there been a test of the non-ceramic vs ceramic equipped M cars ? I know there are tests on the Porsche's, but these ain't no porsche. Nor can we assume that the BMW non CCB brake system are comparable to the Porsche's.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by absoluteis350

Just curious, is this proven ? Has there been a test of the non-ceramic vs ceramic equipped M cars ? I know there are tests on the Porsche's, but these ain't no porsche. Nor can we assume that the BMW non CCB brake system are comparable to the Porsche's.

It's all there, there are two articles that tested CCB vs irons .

You are right though, as far as I know, there have not been any comparison of the ///M CCB vs Iron rotors. However, the MCCB are sourced from the same supplier as the PCCB. Further, through sound engineering deduction, it is fairly safe to assume that the CCB will not offer any braking performance advantage for street use.

[absoluteis350]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

It's all there, there are two articles that tested CCB vs irons .

You are right though, as far as I know, there have not been any comparison of the ///M CCB vs Iron rotors. However, the MCCB are sourced from the same supplier as the PCCB. Further, through sound engineering deduction, it is fairly safe to assume that the CCB will not offer any braking performance advantage for street use.

Correct regarding those articles.. but that assumes that the difference between stock and CCB in other car brands is the same as stock and CCB in M cars. In any case, I'm not sure why it is so hard to find 2 people to put together a set of runs to give a semi-fact based test.

Anyway, regarding the engineering, I thought the CCB contact surface was larger, but not sure about the coef of friction between the two brake systems.

I wish someone would just test them side by side for crying out loud. Probably wouldn't stop the fan boys from either camp tho

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by absoluteis350

Anyway, regarding the engineering, I thought the CCB contact surface was larger, but not sure about the coef of friction between the two brake systems.

When the tires are the limiting factor, the above is irrelevant .

[AM4ZING]

A lot of false info from NON-CCB owners.. How do they "know" so much about something they dont use on a daily basis . unless they lowkey stalk CCB threads and articles


I've driven a Non-CCB M4 and CCB equipped M4 (My personal M4 has CCB's)

Even during spirited driving (NOT ON TRACK) The CCB bite and pedal feel is far superior once warmed up... Also considering the fact that the brake booster is different, the pedal feel is far more race-car like compared to a stock M4/M3 brakes.. CCB has noticeably less pedal travel and once slammed, the BITE is nearly twice as hard


If you're a pu**y driver, you dont need CCB's... Irons will get the job done.
If you enjoy the passion of driving even a little, and are passionate about sports cars, CCB's will put a smile on your face while driving, looking, and cleaning (as there is no visible brake dust!!! haha)

[aw_330i]

Originally Posted by AM4ZING

A lot of false info from NON-CCB owners.. How do they "know" so much about something they dont use on a daily basis . unless they lowkey stalk CCB threads and articles


I've driven a Non-CCB M4 and CCB equipped M4 (My personal M4 has CCB's)

Even during spirited driving (NOT ON TRACK) The CCB bite and pedal feel is far superior once warmed up... Also considering the fact that the brake booster is different, the pedal feel is far more race-car like compared to a stock M4/M3 brakes.. CCB has noticeably less pedal travel and once slammed, the BITE is nearly twice as hard

This I agree 100%. I have Ccb on my m4 and my gf has a m235i, the Ccb really do have a better bite almost instantaneous in clamping the rotor and the pedal feel is much firmer.

The m235i brakes seems mushy after driving our cars back to back.

Braking Distance probably the same but the feel and bite alone is worth getting Ccb

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by aw_330i

Braking Distance probably the same but the feel and bite alone is worth getting Ccb

As I have posted previously, this is a very valid reason to opt for the CCB

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by AM4ZING

A lot of false info from NON-CCB owners..

Can you point out that "false info" you are alluding to

Originally Posted by AM4ZING

Even during spirited driving (NOT ON TRACK) The CCB bite and pedal feel is far superior once warmed up... Also considering the fact that the brake booster is different, the pedal feel is far more race-car like compared to a stock M4/M3 brakes.. CCB has noticeably less pedal travel and once slammed, the BITE is nearly twice as hard

This is all mostly true. The pedal feel and warm initial bite between CCB and iron is quite different. A lot of it has to do with the type of friction between the disc and pads. When driving the irons with track pads on the street, the difference lessens compared with the CCB as track pads are more biased towards adhesive (transfer) friction just as CCB pads: stronger initial bite when warm and harder pedal with similar drawbacks such as less bite when cold and noisier operation. The big disadvantage of using iron rotors with track pads on the street is greater rotor wear (CCB will likely last the life time of the car with street use) and quite noisy operation (more so than the CCB).

Originally Posted by AM4ZING

If you're a pu**y driver, you dont need CCB's...

In my book, the pu**y drivers are the ones that don't track

[RSXDC5]

LOL, thiiiiiiiiis forum.

So I have CCB's, DP's, JB4 on my 6spd M3. The CCB's are easily my favorite part on the car (besides it being a 6spd). I remember when the Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale came out and had carbon brakes, I had a set of Stoptechs on my car at the time and remember calling Stoptech asking for carbon rotors. They were price prohibitive for me at the time but that is what started my obsession with one day having a car with carbon/ceramic brakes. When the F80 came out with CCB's as an option...it was a no-brainer & the order was placed. I have no regrets at all.

I know I've said it before, but the grin I get seeing the CCB's as I walk up to my car everyday...it's the BEST

This "sorta thing" is what justifies CCB's for an enthusiast.

[r3zon8]

+1 for CCB - I will definitely check off that box when its time to place the order.

Tech reason:
I track the car. Yes I can swap out pads/fluid but Im not a mechanic, dont have access to shop/tools.

Financial reason:
Outlay of cash for a Brembo/AP/Stoptech BBK is financially irresponsible when you can finance the 8k(assuming you paid MSRP instead of the 7.5k invoice cost) at <2% over the life of your loan.

my 2c for my position- everyone is different.

[Tempe Mendoan]

why the M4 GTS using CCB?

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by r3zon8

+1 for CCB - I will definitely check off that box when its time to place the order.

Tech reason:
I track the car. Yes I can swap out pads/fluid but Im not a mechanic, dont have access to shop/tools.

Financial reason:
Outlay of cash for a Brembo/AP/Stoptech BBK is financially irresponsible when you can finance the 8k(assuming you paid MSRP instead of the 7.5k invoice cost) at <2% over the life of your loan.

my 2c for my position- everyone is different.

Please post your CCB track feedback here when you get your car. So far we have very few track junkies on the forum that opted for the CCB; the more feedback we get from track usage the better we can understand the pros and cons of the CCBs .

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Tempe Mendoan

why the M4 GTS using CCB?

It seems the irons are still offered standard with the CCB being a no cost option on the GTS

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...&postcount=365

[Musashi]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

It seems the irons are still offered standard with the CCB being a no cost option on the GTS

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...&postcount=365

Do remember reading this post three years ago. Quite a few things changed. More potholes in Montreal, more construction and plenty of salts attacking M Performance steel rotors which do not perform well when cold. ABS kicks in.

Most interesting development is the advent of 3d stranded CCB, three manufacturers make them. Unlike MCCBS or PCCBS they are strand pressured and not resin C SiC. They do not have the same issues when cold, and their operating temperature has been tested all the way to -40. Life expectancy with Pagid type pads is 300,000 kms. Note, that I know people in Montreal whom loose a set every 2nd/3d winter, corrosion and TV getting the best of steel rotors. This is perhaps the worse issue about steel rotors here- they are terrible coming out of winter corrode 300-1000 percent faster due to Saline exposure (at 10 grams / square meter, that is over 1000 µm/year so 1mm) but Canada uses 25% salinity, so that wet winter stuff is twice the sea salinity level of 11%. Eats as much as 2mm steel per year unless washed. The Central and Southern US has none of these issues, and not even northern states. The last 25% of the cast iron disks (so 75-100,000 kms) they offer all these annoyances- squeals, pulsations and sagittal rust from the edge inward etc. To get 100,000 kms per 370x30 Brembo I had to bed them in as often as possible on a warm day in winter. But when -10C is your warmest day in weeks, one is out of luck.

In this context, 3dCCBs offer a significant advantage: no rust no dust, low temperature operating condition, and lower cost than cast iron Brembos in the Snow Belt. Sure, those leasing their cars are better without CCBs. But those keeping theirs for 10 years, and driving them in winter, a 3dCCB front set will cost less than 3-4 M Performance Sets and outperform it by far because you do not spend 100,000 kms out of 300,000 driving end of life, pulsating and squealing cast irons affected by temperature and corrosion.

[tebbnsx]

Originally Posted by AM4ZING

A lot of false info from NON-CCB owners.. How do they "know" so much about something they dont use on a daily basis . unless they lowkey stalk CCB threads and articles


I've driven a Non-CCB M4 and CCB equipped M4 (My personal M4 has CCB's)

Even during spirited driving (NOT ON TRACK) The CCB bite and pedal feel is far superior once warmed up... Also considering the fact that the brake booster is different, the pedal feel is far more race-car like compared to a stock M4/M3 brakes.. CCB has noticeably less pedal travel and once slammed, the BITE is nearly twice as hard


If you're a pu**y driver, you dont need CCB's... Irons will get the job done.
If you enjoy the passion of driving even a little, and are passionate about sports cars, CCB's will put a smile on your face while driving, looking, and cleaning (as there is no visible brake dust!!! haha)

Bro! Your comments are hilarious as are you novice at best driving skills.