BMW Dealer Shadiness

washm3 · 11-21-2018, 01:08 PM

Hey guys,

Just wanted to mention here something odd that happened last week at the dealership when I had my car in. At the moment, I won't be giving out the name of the dealership unless it comes to the point where this can't be handled. My warranty expires next month December, so I am hoping to have this resolved by then. I'm unsure to pursue this matter legally, as since my warranty expires, I may be forced to pay the below repairs out of pocket.

Love some opinion and thoughts as to how this should be handled. I'll do my best to break down the sequence of events.

Saturday, I was having my exhaust swapped to stock from the car also while having the car looked over as my warranty expires end of December. On inspection, my friend noticed some leaks coming from the turbo area (see pic below). Immediately, I called my service advisor and made an appointment to have the leaks inspected and repaired, and I bring the car in first thing Monday.

Monday I drop off the car, I grab my loaner, get home and think nothing of it. I let my SA know about the leaks, he wrote up the order, and I was off on my way. At the time, I didn't think much of it, and I didn't bother to show them the picture as proof since I seemed to have had good experiences the last time I visited this dealer (i'll explain why this detail is important ).

Tuesday morning, I receive a text from my SA that there were no leaks found on the car. I respond with the picture above, which at this point I wish I had showed him before as there would've been no question as to where there may have been a leak or not. He responds saying that he will check with the foreman/techs, I'm thinking at this point, no one is aware that I had proof of the leak or that I personally saw it for myself.

Fast forward to thursday, I get a call back mentioning still, there were no found leaks under the car or even by the turbos. And here is the pic I receive back of my turbos that apparently have been cleaned or wiped, of which he then asks me if I had cleaned the oil leak location before I brought the car in??

Which makes no sense, since if we had cleaned it, I would've had a hard time showing proof of the leak for repair. At this point, I pretty much get pretty frustrated and tell my SA that there's no posssible way I could've cleaned it or anyone else could have touched it in the duration the car was at the dealership, unless someone at the dealership did it. We go back and forth and he sticks to his story that none of the techs cleaned it nor did the shop foreman, and that there would be no reason for them to clean the oil leak/or even wanted it cleaned since they are losing money on a warranty claim/repair of which the dealership is reimbursed directly from BMW.

He gives me his "story" that at this point, under his "knowledge" there were no leaks and no one has cleaned it. He advises I pick up the car, put on a few hundred miles and have the car rechecked, with the service advisor and shop foreman present in person under the car that way there's no chance of he said/she said mishap.

I've since driven the car almost 800 miles, hoping the leak will show and awaiting my appointment for next week. In the mean time, i was trying to still figure out who could've possibly wanted to clean it, and why?! and further steps I can do to protect myself in the event there is some type of fraud/weird occurrence going on at that dealership. I'm concerned now that in keeping the car past warranty, the leaks will cost me in the future, something that should have been covered.

If anyone has any recommended courses of action to take, please advise!!!

washm3 · 11-21-2018, 01:14 PM

I also spoke with my friend who is a technician at a toyota dealership who might've had a theory as to why it may have been cleaned:

Techs are paid by "job" and the hours are predetermined, so say a turbo swap book time is about 10 hours, they are paid based on the book time, not on the actual time itself of the repair. So techs are essentially incentivized to finish their jobs quicker.
We are thinking that due to the complexity of the repair, needing to unbolt turbos etc. there was no cheating the book time and the tech felt it wasn't worth his time to start the repair, and so he cleaned it. Thus leaving the shop foreman and service advisor in the middle- at this point I am thinking the service advisor was unaware of this, or perhaps not fully aware before this happened.

Does anyone believe this could've been a likely possibility?

r0wr · 11-21-2018, 01:20 PM

This exact situation happened to me right before my warranty ended. It's blow by which, depending on how excess it is, can be normal for these cars. I had BMW NA step in after one of the dealers local to me wouldn't acknowledge it. They ended up pressure testing it and replaced a seal on the intake. Seems like a bandaid fix for something that is normal.

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1545217

washm3 · 11-21-2018, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r0wr

This exact situation happened to me right before my warranty ended. It's blow by which, depending on how excess it is, can be normal for these cars. I had BMW NA step in after one of the dealers local to me wouldn't acknowledge it. They ended up pressure testing it and replaced a seal on the intake. Seems like a bandaid fix for something that is normal.

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1545217

Seems like a lot in my case to be blow back. And in a very specialized area. Which turbo did you see oil? Front? Or rear

overlook637 · 11-21-2018, 02:42 PM

Did the repair shop, who was working on the exhaust, wipe the area clean?

r0wr · 11-21-2018, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by washm3

Quote:

Originally Posted by r0wr

This exact situation happened to me right before my warranty ended. It's blow by which, depending on how excess it is, can be normal for these cars. I had BMW NA step in after one of the dealers local to me wouldn't acknowledge it. They ended up pressure testing it and replaced a seal on the intake. Seems like a bandaid fix for something that is normal.

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1545217

Seems like a lot in my case to be blow back. And in a very specialized area. Which turbo did you see oil? Front? Or rear

I would assume it's just excessive blow by and nothing crazy. I've spoken to other forum members about it and most have seen it on their car. Tom at EAS seems to believe it's not normal and I'm sure he's seen his fair share of Ms so I'm not sure what to think of it.

In regards to whether it's the back or the front turbo, I'm not 100 percent sure. The perspective my images are from are from the passenger side, underneath the front of the car.

washm3 · 11-21-2018, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by overlook637

Did the repair shop, who was working on the exhaust, wipe the area clean?

No, absolutely not. they were aware I should bring it to the shop as is.

washm3 · 11-21-2018, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r0wr

I would assume it's just excessive blow by and nothing crazy. I've spoken to other forum members about it and most have seen it on their car. Tom at EAS seems to believe it's not normal and I'm sure he's seen his fair share of Ms so I'm not sure what to think of it.

In regards to whether it's the back or the front turbo, I'm not 100 percent sure. The perspective my images are from are from the passenger side, underneath the front of the car.

Think you’re referring to the front turbo, of which mine is the same. I spoke with another local shop and they too mentioned it might be blowback, which is common on the front turbos.

I feel a little more at ease now. Not sure to have dealer look into it or not then.

F32Fleet · 11-27-2018, 11:01 AM

You have documented proof that the dealer looked at it along with your photographic evidence. IMO you have a good chance of receiving a "goodwill" repair if a problem develops on that specific turbo.

r0wr · 11-27-2018, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by washm3

Quote:

Originally Posted by r0wr

I would assume it's just excessive blow by and nothing crazy. I've spoken to other forum members about it and most have seen it on their car. Tom at EAS seems to believe it's not normal and I'm sure he's seen his fair share of Ms so I'm not sure what to think of it.

In regards to whether it's the back or the front turbo, I'm not 100 percent sure. The perspective my images are from are from the passenger side, underneath the front of the car.

Think you're referring to the front turbo, of which mine is the same. I spoke with another local shop and they too mentioned it might be blowback, which is common on the front turbos.

I feel a little more at ease now. Not sure to have dealer look into it or not then.

I would have the dealer check the turbos for leaks. Supposedly mine had a leak. Not sure if it'll fix the blow by issue or if the excess was caused by the leak.

r0wr · 02-12-2019, 08:17 PM

washm3 Any update on this?

TTGator · 02-13-2019, 10:05 AM

I had the same thing (looked like your picture) and the dealership also replaced a seal on mine under warranty. I'd be PISSED if they cleaned it like they did to yours and said nothing was wrong.

Djdnav · 02-13-2019, 12:35 PM

To be fair, if I was trying to detect a leak, I would clean the hell out of it first. Oil drips, pools, and runs everywhere. If you clean it and see more oil, there’s your leak.

I suspect the tech cleaned the area, didn’t find an actual leak, and there was just a lack of effective communication between them and the SA.

Downeaster1 · 02-16-2019, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by washm3

I also spoke with my friend who is a technician at a toyota dealership who might've had a theory as to why it may have been cleaned:

Techs are paid by "job" and the hours are predetermined, so say a turbo swap book time is about 10 hours, they are paid based on the book time, not on the actual time itself of the repair. So techs are essentially incentivized to finish their jobs quicker.
We are thinking that due to the complexity of the repair, needing to unbolt turbos etc. there was no cheating the book time and the tech felt it wasn't worth his time to start the repair, and so he cleaned it. Thus leaving the shop foreman and service advisor in the middle- at this point I am thinking the service advisor was unaware of this, or perhaps not fully aware before this happened.

Does anyone believe this could've been a likely possibility?

Hey, BMW Dealership Technician here,
This happens all the time. Usually by either unmotivated technicians, or ones that don't have experience doing these repairs (regardless what the repair is). When the N54's were still under warranty, I swapped one out, and hated every minute of it. Eventually, got it down to a science, and would throw turbos on anything that came in the door.
What I would do, find a different dealership. Talk to the service advisor, request a tech who enjoys doing turbos, take your loaner and wait 3 days...boom. Oil leak gone.

behindthen0thing · 02-18-2019, 03:41 PM

FYI when diagnosing an oil leak, you generally clean all of the oil off then look for the leak. It's possible that they cleaned the oil and the leak never returned.

Downeaster1 · 02-20-2019, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by behindthen0thing

FYI when diagnosing an oil leak, you generally clean all of the oil off then look for the leak. It's possible that they cleaned the oil and the leak never returned.

This. But also, don't deny that you've cleaned it lol

Fast4d · 02-23-2019, 01:23 PM

To the OP do u have a catch can?

I have a theory......I recently checked under my car for leaks because my warranty expires soon. I noticed some residue on the front turbo but it is dry.

About 5k miles ago I notice my front charge pipe was a bit damp with water and/or oil. I installed a catch can. Checked charge pipe and it is now mostly dry.

My engine does not consume enough oil for the system to notice. I have gone as far as 10k between changes and it always show full. I perform all maintainance since 1200 miles and I use 7.2 quarts at fill up.

11-21-2018, 01:08 PM	#1
washm3 Private 16 Rep 68 Posts Drives: F80 Join Date: May 2018 Location: Usa iTrader: (0)	BMW Dealer Shadiness - Turbo Leak "Disappeared" Mystery Hey guys, Just wanted to mention here something odd that happened last week at the dealership when I had my car in. At the moment, I won't be giving out the name of the dealership unless it comes to the point where this can't be handled. My warranty expires next month December, so I am hoping to have this resolved by then. I'm unsure to pursue this matter legally, as since my warranty expires, I may be forced to pay the below repairs out of pocket. Love some opinion and thoughts as to how this should be handled. I'll do my best to break down the sequence of events. Saturday, I was having my exhaust swapped to stock from the car also while having the car looked over as my warranty expires end of December. On inspection, my friend noticed some leaks coming from the turbo area (see pic below). Immediately, I called my service advisor and made an appointment to have the leaks inspected and repaired, and I bring the car in first thing Monday. Monday I drop off the car, I grab my loaner, get home and think nothing of it. I let my SA know about the leaks, he wrote up the order, and I was off on my way. At the time, I didn't think much of it, and I didn't bother to show them the picture as proof since I seemed to have had good experiences the last time I visited this dealer (i'll explain why this detail is important ). Tuesday morning, I receive a text from my SA that there were no leaks found on the car. I respond with the picture above, which at this point I wish I had showed him before as there would've been no question as to where there may have been a leak or not. He responds saying that he will check with the foreman/techs, I'm thinking at this point, no one is aware that I had proof of the leak or that I personally saw it for myself. Fast forward to thursday, I get a call back mentioning still, there were no found leaks under the car or even by the turbos. And here is the pic I receive back of my turbos that apparently have been cleaned or wiped, of which he then asks me if I had cleaned the oil leak location before I brought the car in?? Which makes no sense, since if we had cleaned it, I would've had a hard time showing proof of the leak for repair. At this point, I pretty much get pretty frustrated and tell my SA that there's no posssible way I could've cleaned it or anyone else could have touched it in the duration the car was at the dealership, unless someone at the dealership did it. We go back and forth and he sticks to his story that none of the techs cleaned it nor did the shop foreman, and that there would be no reason for them to clean the oil leak/or even wanted it cleaned since they are losing money on a warranty claim/repair of which the dealership is reimbursed directly from BMW. He gives me his "story" that at this point, under his "knowledge" there were no leaks and no one has cleaned it. He advises I pick up the car, put on a few hundred miles and have the car rechecked, with the service advisor and shop foreman present in person under the car that way there's no chance of he said/she said mishap. I've since driven the car almost 800 miles, hoping the leak will show and awaiting my appointment for next week. In the mean time, i was trying to still figure out who could've possibly wanted to clean it, and why?! and further steps I can do to protect myself in the event there is some type of fraud/weird occurrence going on at that dealership. I'm concerned now that in keeping the car past warranty, the leaks will cost me in the future, something that should have been covered. If anyone has any recommended courses of action to take, please advise!!! Last edited by washm3; 11-21-2018 at 01:19 PM..
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11-21-2018, 01:14 PM	#2
washm3 Private 16 Rep 68 Posts Drives: F80 Join Date: May 2018 Location: Usa iTrader: (0)	I also spoke with my friend who is a technician at a toyota dealership who might've had a theory as to why it may have been cleaned: Techs are paid by "job" and the hours are predetermined, so say a turbo swap book time is about 10 hours, they are paid based on the book time, not on the actual time itself of the repair. So techs are essentially incentivized to finish their jobs quicker. We are thinking that due to the complexity of the repair, needing to unbolt turbos etc. there was no cheating the book time and the tech felt it wasn't worth his time to start the repair, and so he cleaned it. Thus leaving the shop foreman and service advisor in the middle- at this point I am thinking the service advisor was unaware of this, or perhaps not fully aware before this happened. Does anyone believe this could've been a likely possibility?
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11-21-2018, 01:20 PM	#3
r0wr Lieutenant 589 Rep 526 Posts Drives: Beater Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Los Angeles, CA iTrader: (0)	This exact situation happened to me right before my warranty ended. It's blow by which, depending on how excess it is, can be normal for these cars. I had BMW NA step in after one of the dealers local to me wouldn't acknowledge it. They ended up pressure testing it and replaced a seal on the intake. Seems like a bandaid fix for something that is normal. https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1545217
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11-21-2018, 02:42 PM	#5
overlook637 Lieutenant 245 Rep 466 Posts Drives: M4 Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: USA iTrader: (0)	Did the repair shop, who was working on the exhaust, wipe the area clean?
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11-27-2018, 11:01 AM	#9
F32Fleet Lieutenant General 3570 Rep 10,351 Posts Drives: 2015 435i Join Date: May 2005 Location: Southeastern US iTrader: (0)	You have documented proof that the dealer looked at it along with your photographic evidence. IMO you have a good chance of receiving a "goodwill" repair if a problem develops on that specific turbo. __________________ "Drive more, worry less. " 435i, MPPK, MPE, M-Sport Line
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02-12-2019, 08:17 PM	#11
r0wr Lieutenant 589 Rep 526 Posts Drives: Beater Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Los Angeles, CA iTrader: (0)	washm3 Any update on this?
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02-13-2019, 10:05 AM	#12
TTGator Banned 246 Rep 282 Posts Drives: 2015 BMW M4 Dinan S3 Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Kernersville, NC iTrader: (0)	I had the same thing (looked like your picture) and the dealership also replaced a seal on mine under warranty. I'd be PISSED if they cleaned it like they did to yours and said nothing was wrong.
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02-13-2019, 12:35 PM	#13
Djdnav First Lieutenant 227 Rep 369 Posts Drives: F80 M3 Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: Central FL iTrader: (6)	To be fair, if I was trying to detect a leak, I would clean the hell out of it first. Oil drips, pools, and runs everywhere. If you clean it and see more oil, there’s your leak. I suspect the tech cleaned the area, didn’t find an actual leak, and there was just a lack of effective communication between them and the SA. __________________ ///M3
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02-18-2019, 03:41 PM	#15
behindthen0thing Captain 840 Rep 937 Posts Drives: M4 Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: Germany iTrader: (0)	FYI when diagnosing an oil leak, you generally clean all of the oil off then look for the leak. It's possible that they cleaned the oil and the leak never returned.
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02-23-2019, 01:23 PM	#17
Fast4d Captain 267 Rep 885 Posts Drives: 325 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: So cal iTrader: (0)	To the OP do u have a catch can? I have a theory......I recently checked under my car for leaks because my warranty expires soon. I noticed some residue on the front turbo but it is dry. About 5k miles ago I notice my front charge pipe was a bit damp with water and/or oil. I installed a catch can. Checked charge pipe and it is now mostly dry. My engine does not consume enough oil for the system to notice. I have gone as far as 10k between changes and it always show full. I perform all maintainance since 1200 miles and I use 7.2 quarts at fill up.
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