Mod a leased car?

[chillindrdude]

Hypothetically speaking of course.

Let's say a friend is considering modifying his leased car. Would you advise him to...

1) do no mods

2) exterior mods only that are reversible

3) "conservative" engine/exhaust mods (ie catless DPs and/or Stg 1 piggybacks)

4) sky's the limit...just put it back to stock at lease end.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by chillindrdude

Hypothetically speaking of course.

Let's say a friend is considering modifying his leased car. Would you advise him to...

1) do no mods

2) exterior mods only that are reversible

3) "conservative" engine/exhaust mods (ie catless DPs and/or Stg 1 piggybacks)

4) sky's the limit...just put it back to stock at lease end.

How much money does this said friend have, can he cover the costs if things go wrong?

[chillindrdude]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

How much money does this said friend have, can he cover the costs if things go wrong?

Money is not an issue per se. but he (is risk adverse) would rather not cross that bridge.

[BMdblU]

Ive done full bolts on to two leased E92's. My dealer knew and was totally okay with everything. Have fun

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by chillindrdude

Money is not an issue per se. but he (is risk adverse) would rather not cross that bridge.

Then the fact that the car is leased is irrelevant - risk averse people don't do mods.
Otherwise, anything goes, as long as you can put it back to stock for lease return (else dealer will do it for you at 2x labor cost + new OEM parts).

a

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by chillindrdude

Money is not an issue per se. but he (is risk adverse) would rather not cross that bridge.

Mods and Risk Averse.. hehe, that's like unsafe sex in a dark alley with a couple of people you just meet at a stoplight on a warm summers night off craigslist.

I wouldn't do anything that your friend couldn't undo in 45mins.

However, if your friend plans on keeping the car at the end of the lease. Or at lease end buying it out, then selling it privately. Mod freely, however keep in mind, some mods probably void the warranty.

Again, some of it comes down to your relationship with your dealership, and how open they are.

Mild is probably best

[M-gineering]

I have performed mild tuning and exterior mods to leased M's before with no problems however, each dealer is different. If you perform engine or other mods that constitute a warranty breach, and the dealer decides (for whatever reason, maybe you slept with the service manager's wife) to hold you accountable, BMW can hold you liable for the full value of the vehicle...

That said, I say enjoy!

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by M-gineering

I have performed mild tuning and exterior mods to leased M's before with no problems however, each dealer is different. If you perform engine or other mods that constitute a warranty breach, and the dealer decides (for whatever reason, maybe you slept with the service manager's wife) to hold you accountable, BMW can hold you liable for the full value of the vehicle...

That said, I say enjoy!

Is that a... my friend slept with the service manager's wife story?

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by chillindrdude

Money is not an issue per se. but he (is risk adverse) would rather not cross that bridge.

If you lease from BMWFS, your contract says you can't touch a thing, even cosmetics ... thus a truly conservative person wouldn't mod at all. Playing probabilities, your real risk is warranty; in case you don't know:

(1.) Your dealer has nothing to do with BMW AG beyond whether they report you or not (which can be a big deal of course) - they can't "ok" mods. If you mod and something blows up, you're gonna pay.

(2.) The MM Act only applies in court - BMW AG can deny warranty work for any reason at any time and you can't compel them to pay unless you take them to court. BMW's typical approach is to delay court dates for 2+ years during which time you can't drive your car. In short, if it gets to this point you've already lost unless this is your only job.

(3.) Dinan has nothing to do with BMW AG so you're at as much risk with Dinan as any other mod (some would say more risk since BMW hates Dinan)

Thus if you're willing to tolerate mild risk, here's your list:

(a.) Cosmetics including wheels and tires
(b.) Exhaust, intakes, etc
(b.) Light reversible mods & coding - nothing that involves cutting, splicing, or the ECU. Personally downpipes are probably ok, but it's a personal choice.

Everything else, including ANY tune even Dinan is risky.

[Jojipoji]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

If you lease from BMWFS, your contract says you can't touch a thing, even cosmetics ... thus a truly conservative person wouldn't mod at all. Playing probabilities, your real risk is warranty; in case you don't know:

(1.) Your dealer has nothing to do with BMW AG beyond whether they report you or not (which can be a big deal of course) - they can't "ok" mods. If you mod and something blows up, you're gonna pay.

(2.) The MM Act only applies in court - BMW AG can deny warranty work for any reason at any time and you can't compel them to pay unless you take them to court. BMW's typical approach is to delay court dates for 2+ years during which time you can't drive your car. In short, if it gets to this point you've already lost unless this is your only job.

(3.) Dinan has nothing to do with BMW AG so you're at as much risk with Dinan as any other mod (some would say more risk since BMW hates Dinan)

Thus if you're willing to tolerate mild risk, here's your list:

(a.) Cosmetics including wheels and tires
(b.) Exhaust, intakes, etc
(b.) Light reversible mods & coding - nothing that involves cutting, splicing, or the ECU. Personally downpipes are probably ok, but it's a personal choice.

Everything else, including ANY tune even Dinan is risky.

The only thing I would disagree with is most auto sales contracts have arbitration clauses which most manufacturers exercise since it's cheaper. I've been present at two lemon law arbitrations and a warranty denial claim. All three times the arbitrator ruled in favor of the consumer.

[nicknaz]

I definitely agree with the others that the relationship with the service adviser is critically important.

In my experience some dealers won't even put 10mm wider non OEM approved tires on a car while others will uninstall mods for you to get warranty work completed.

For what it is worth, I'm waiting until there are OBDII flash tunes before doing anything to the drivetrain other than catback exhaust and will stick to alignment, brake pads and tires as the only other changes

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Jojipoji

The only thing I would disagree with is most auto sales contracts have arbitration clauses which most manufacturers exercise since it's cheaper. I've been present at two lemon law arbitrations and a warranty denial claim. All three times the arbitrator ruled in favor of the consumer.

For BMW or Mercedes? Just curious because they're both infamous for using their attorneys for petty shit.

[mdrobc13]

Well I've modded a few leased cars and had no issues whatsoever with BMW or my dealer. All cars were tastefully done and I removed most of the mods at time of sale/trade in. Hell if you're buying/leasing another BMW from them my experience has been that they care more about tire tread depth and non OEM wheels and tires than if you've put a Dinan S2 tune package on the car. Granted they won't give you anything for your mods and will gladly sell it with those same said mods for a profit (I think my Dinan S3 550i lasted less than a week on the used lot) which is why I keep all OEM parts and then I remove my mods now before resale or lease return especially so I can recoup some of my hard spend funds! Good luck

[sor]

Eh, it doesn't really matter. The worst that can happen is you do a trade-in vs returning the car (remember, you can always switch to a standard finance model or trade in by calling up and rolling the difference between your purchase price and what you've paid off via lease payments into a loan or dealer payoff), so if you truly do something that destroys the value you're going to pay for it in trade value. Otherwise, unless you're critically concerned about needing to actually turn the car in vs trading it in or buying it out, just treat it as you would a financed car or a car you bought but plan on trading in.

I just got out of an Audi S4 lease, had it for 36 out of 39 months. Installed an APR flash, new pulley. Traded it in towards my next car and actually got about $1k more than my payoff. Out of six leases, I only ever turned in one. The rest were trade ins and I had one lease swap.

[sor]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

If you lease from BMWFS, your contract says you can't touch a thing, even cosmetics ... thus a truly conservative person wouldn't mod at all. Playing probabilities, your real risk is warranty; in case you don't know:

(1.) Your dealer has nothing to do with BMW AG beyond whether they report you or not (which can be a big deal of course) - they can't "ok" mods. If you mod and something blows up, you're gonna pay.

(2.) The MM Act only applies in court - BMW AG can deny warranty work for any reason at any time and you can't compel them to pay unless you take them to court. BMW's typical approach is to delay court dates for 2+ years during which time you can't drive your car. In short, if it gets to this point you've already lost unless this is your only job.

(3.) Dinan has nothing to do with BMW AG so you're at as much risk with Dinan as any other mod (some would say more risk since BMW hates Dinan)

Thus if you're willing to tolerate mild risk, here's your list:

(a.) Cosmetics including wheels and tires
(b.) Exhaust, intakes, etc
(b.) Light reversible mods & coding - nothing that involves cutting, splicing, or the ECU. Personally downpipes are probably ok, but it's a personal choice.

Everything else, including ANY tune even Dinan is risky.

Sure, but that has nothing to do with the lease. You run warranty risk even if you pay cash for the car.

[-JLT-]

I would recommend modding everything minus ECU. I've done exhaust, lowering, tinted rear tail lights, wheels, etc and returned car as is minus aftermarket wheels. it's your ride so enjoy it.

[04cobra]

I modded my 335xi with tune and intake. Turned it back into BMW, they CPO'd it and sold it to someone else, that I happened to know, and I checked and the tune was still on there. This was a piggyback tune (i.e. had to crack open the ECU and hook it up)

[XRAVE]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

If you lease from BMWFS, your contract says you can't touch a thing, even cosmetics ... thus a truly conservative person wouldn't mod at all. Playing probabilities, your real risk is warranty; in case you don't know:

(1.) Your dealer has nothing to do with BMW AG beyond whether they report you or not (which can be a big deal of course) - they can't "ok" mods. If you mod and something blows up, you're gonna pay.

(2.) The MM Act only applies in court - BMW AG can deny warranty work for any reason at any time and you can't compel them to pay unless you take them to court. BMW's typical approach is to delay court dates for 2+ years during which time you can't drive your car. In short, if it gets to this point you've already lost unless this is your only job.

(3.) Dinan has nothing to do with BMW AG so you're at as much risk with Dinan as any other mod (some would say more risk since BMW hates Dinan)

Thus if you're willing to tolerate mild risk, here's your list:

(a.) Cosmetics including wheels and tires
(b.) Exhaust, intakes, etc
(b.) Light reversible mods & coding - nothing that involves cutting, splicing, or the ECU. Personally downpipes are probably ok, but it's a personal choice.

Everything else, including ANY tune even Dinan is risky.

The dealership is not the one that is going to report you, they actually make most of there money from warranty work. BMW NA will have someone come in every once and awhile to make sure that the cars aren't tuned and that warranty work is being carried out correctly.

I happen to know someone at my local BMW that is willing to work under the table and knows when said person would be looking.

I had on my 135i, jb4 stage 2, Down pipes, intake, exhaust and running e85. I went in for many time to get warranty work done. One of them was actually pretty big, my 2nd gear synchro went out. BMW actually can't repair the gearbox so they had to get me a brand new one. Would have cost me upwards of $5000.

I gave my SA who I've been dealing with for years now and who my local tuning shop recommenced me to back in the day and gave him $100 to get it done under warranty. He assured me he could do it without having any mods taken off.

Of course I knew I was taking a risk by doing this since if he came back saying that it wouldn't be covered under warranty, I couldn't hold him liable.

A week later I got a call that I had a new transmission and it was all covered under warranty.

My suggestion would be, Jb4 would be fine. Downpipes would be fine. If your dealership isn't cool with it, stick with just a jb4 that can be removed in 20 minutes.

[/// M sa]

I had leased my e90 2011 and spent 8k on mods (wheels, tunes, tires spacers suspension etc). Sold the tunes for 4800 after owning the car for 3 years.. Go for it.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by XRAVE

The dealership is not the one that is going to report you ...

Good stuff, but the summary of your post is:

1.) BMW AG's official position is "we won't underwrite your mod risk"

2.) No dealership will underwrite that risk either - they may work under the table with you, but if the shit hits the fan they're not going to take a $25-$30k bullet.

Sure, you can try to remove mods in a catastrophic case, but if BMW NA/AG even suspects your JB4 (or other mod) caused the issue they're going to deny your claim. Period.

Again, BMW doesn't have to prove shit, so basically your point is that the probabilities are on your side ... you're right in that, but someone conservative is looking at limiting risk, not gambling on probabilities for 100HP. Just my 2 cents.

[RingMeister01]

Originally Posted by XRAVE

The dealership is not the one that is going to report you, they actually make most of there money from warranty work. BMW NA will have someone come in every once and awhile to make sure that the cars aren't tuned and that warranty work is being carried out correctly.

I happen to know someone at my local BMW that is willing to work under the table and knows when said person would be looking.

I had on my 135i, jb4 stage 2, Down pipes, intake, exhaust and running e85. I went in for many time to get warranty work done. One of them was actually pretty big, my 2nd gear synchro went out. BMW actually can't repair the gearbox so they had to get me a brand new one. Would have cost me upwards of $5000.

I gave my SA who I've been dealing with for years now and who my local tuning shop recommenced me to back in the day and gave him $100 to get it done under warranty. He assured me he could do it without having any mods taken off.

Of course I knew I was taking a risk by doing this since if he came back saying that it wouldn't be covered under warranty, I couldn't hold him liable.

A week later I got a call that I had a new transmission and it was all covered under warranty.

My suggestion would be, Jb4 would be fine. Downpipes would be fine. If your dealership isn't cool with it, stick with just a jb4 that can be removed in 20 minutes.

BMW now investigating your dealer.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by XRAVE

I happen to know someone at my local BMW that is willing to work under the table and knows when said person would be looking.

- yeah, thanks for ratting out your dealer