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      12-26-2020, 10:50 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ6 View Post
What needs to be done is a direct IAT temperature comparison between the stock charge cooler and aftermarket charge cooler. Sure horsepower figures are great, and in the aftermarket world increased HP claims sell products. Personally though, without solid data to back up a products claims, it's all snake oil.

CSF has proven this fact: no hard data, but their claim of increased HP sells units. The fact that they're more concerned with sales over proven results however speaks volumes.

Until IAT temperature comparisons are made in a controlled environment, proving a statistically significant efficacy of the claims, I wouldn't even consider putting it on my vehicle.

"A fool and his money are soon parted", and there are plenty of manufactures out there just looking for suckers.
FWIW BMS posted a back to back test of their Phoenix S55 IC doing 1/2 mile runs. It's not fully apples to apples as the testing was done on different days and slightly different tuning/weather but gives you an idea.


Last edited by Fuel-It!; 12-27-2020 at 10:54 AM..
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      12-26-2020, 12:23 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Fuel-It! View Post
FWIW BMS posted a back to back test of their Phoenix S55 IC doing 1/2 mile runs. It's not fully apples to apples as the testing was done on different days and slightly different cooling but gives you an idea.
It's nice to know that some vendors have the fortitude to back up their products with data as opposed to relying solely on a marketing strategy that revolves around how many units they've sold.
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      03-28-2021, 09:28 AM   #91
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Interested in CSF, sees hilarious childish response from vendor. Exits thread.
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      03-30-2021, 11:54 PM   #92
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I wasn't interested in them, but have to say that in my 25 years or so of being on different car forums, that was by far the worst post I have seen from a vendor.
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Originally Posted by F82Tazmanian View Post
Interested in CSF, sees hilarious childish response from vendor. Exits thread.
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      03-31-2021, 06:59 AM   #93
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Mishimoto ftw!
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      03-31-2021, 07:36 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prodigal77 View Post
I wasn't interested in them, but have to say that in my 25 years or so of being on different car forums, that was by far the worst post I have seen from a vendor.
It really is mindboggling their response. Would have been so easy to just own the situation. But again I am sure they don't give a fudge because they are making bank and that is all that matters, right? Plenty of customers in the higher end aftermarket more than willing to part with their money. I know I won't be buying anything from them in the future, on any platform, which is a shame because I think they make good products.
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      04-02-2021, 03:26 PM   #95
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Glad I came across this thread. If or when I upgraded my stock unit, I was going to go with CSF. Definitely not anymore.
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      04-02-2021, 08:59 PM   #96
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Lightbulb

Hi all , presently I am in the process of converting my M235 to a top mount A2W intercooler which caused me to stumble on this thread whilst doing research (as I always do) before and after I modify my stuff. Just for information I decided to go with the Phoenix Racing "Upgrade" and the Mishimoto heat exchanger, both choices were made based on claimed performance and my budget. After reading this thread I was taken aback by a couple things but the one that struck me the most is the fact that a lot of you guys seem to want to bolt on an upgraded intercooler and see magical improvements in performance whilst completely ignoring the other important parts/ factors of the system. At the end of the day an upgraded intercooler will add more efficiency by increasing surface area and internal volume but it also introduces more resistance to water flow and more water volume to keep cool this itself introduces a new challenge . If the true potential of any A2W system is to be realized then it is imperative that the charge cooler not only be paired with an upgrade heat exchanger BUT also an UPGRADED or supplemental INTERCOOLER WATER pump in order to increase (or at least maintain) circulation rates of the now larger volume of water flowing through a more resistant system! In one of my previous builds I used a BOSCH water pump because at the time it was the unit to used since it was what came on many OEM supercharged high horse power cars, now if you do some checking you will see that it is actually one of the worse pumps you can buy! In the same way you are assuming the rest of the BMW system is up to the task when it clearly isn't! a simple rule of thumb I learned and apply is whatever is done to the right side of the equation must also be done to the left! you cannot upgrade or change one part of a system that is designed to work together as a whole and expect it to function better. Many a time you will see a newly modified (higher HP) engine struggle to stay cool when the cooling system is not simultaneously upgraded, so why would you expect this scenario to be different? Since I am designing my system I opted for a high flow EWP flowing 34.3 GPM which will be speed adjusted based on boost/ load, I'm sure the BMW OEM pump is nowhere in that ball park! At the risk of being skewered ill say that I think you guys would be better off leaving your cars sock if you do not take a holistic view/ approach when doing modifications .

PS: I also don't think you were fair to the CSF guy!
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      04-05-2021, 04:26 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dumaurier7 View Post

PS: I also don't think you were fair to the CSF guy!


CSF has proven time and again that all they care about is money. They had ample time to back up their claims and make good on their promises, but when it came down to 3rd party tests and the rubber met the road, their real colors and priorities went on display for everyone to see.

That being said, I do agree with the holistic approach to car building along with supporting mods, but CSF is one vendor that will never touch my car; and with an attitude like the one displayed by the owner (if that was truly him replying) I'll happily black-ball them at every opportunity.
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      04-19-2021, 01:53 PM   #98
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Looks like im going mishimoto cooling kit when i do my CH this summer in socal. May as well since all of it comes out
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      04-19-2021, 06:16 PM   #99
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I see a lot of CSF bashing however has anybody done tests with any other top mount ICs?

Personally I think CSF looks the best if painted correctly. All the other ones look like ass.
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      04-19-2021, 08:07 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danlnyc88 View Post
I see a lot of CSF bashing however has anybody done tests with any other top mount ICs?

Personally I think CSF looks the best if painted correctly. All the other ones look like ass.
Out of all the companies that provide actual data to back up their claims, Mishimoto wins hands down.
While CSF does make a good looking intercooler, I'd much rather give my money to a company that backs up their claims as opposed to a company that's gone on record as only caring about your money.
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      04-20-2021, 08:49 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danlnyc88 View Post
I see a lot of CSF bashing however has anybody done tests with any other top mount ICs?

Personally I think CSF looks the best if painted correctly. All the other ones look like ass.
Not much testing or comparison has been done regarding top mounts.

My stock cooler leaked so I changed to CSF. the difference was easily noticeable compared to stock, especially in the summer and it looks great.
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      04-20-2021, 09:46 AM   #102
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Personally I think the CSF looks hideous. Tacky logo and stripes. Garrett and Wagner are far better if we are just talking aesthetics. I think people are ragging (rightfully so) on CSF due to the owner's lack of integrity/business ethics. All the intercoolers will look similar if painted all black.. Garrett has some testing data but people have mentioned they are not keen on it being bar and plate.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Danlnyc88 View Post
I see a lot of CSF bashing however has anybody done tests with any other top mount ICs?

Personally I think CSF looks the best if painted correctly. All the other ones look like ass.
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      04-20-2021, 10:20 AM   #103
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I'll save folks some money here: If your charge air cooler leaks, buy another one from FCP Euro for $688. If it ever leaks again, get a free lifetime warranty replacement from FCP Euro.

Use the money you save to buy a front mount heat exchanger instead where gains and consistency were actually proven as a stand alone upgrade.

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...er-17517846235
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      04-20-2021, 10:47 AM   #104
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Good looking out!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellokitty View Post
I'll save folks some money here: If your charge air cooler leaks, buy another one from FCP Euro for $688. If it ever leaks again, get a free lifetime warranty replacement from FCP Euro.

Use the money you save to buy a front mount heat exchanger instead where gains and consistency were actually proven as a stand alone upgrade.

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...er-17517846235
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      04-20-2021, 10:53 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellokitty View Post
I'll save folks some money here: If your charge air cooler leaks, buy another one from FCP Euro for $688. If it ever leaks again, get a free lifetime warranty replacement from FCP Euro.

Use the money you save to buy a front mount heat exchanger instead where gains and consistency were actually proven as a stand alone upgrade.

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...er-17517846235
Thanks for this!
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      04-20-2021, 05:49 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellokitty View Post
I'll save folks some money here: If your charge air cooler leaks, buy another one from FCP Euro for $688. If it ever leaks again, get a free lifetime warranty replacement from FCP Euro.

Use the money you save to buy a front mount heat exchanger instead where gains and consistency were actually proven as a stand alone upgrade.

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...er-17517846235
Or just buy the kit from Mishimoto that replaces all of that for the price of the CSF cooler alone and never worry about any of it again.
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      04-20-2021, 08:19 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fknlo View Post
Or just buy the kit from Mishimoto that replaces all of that for the price of the CSF cooler alone and never worry about any of it again.
Mishimoto is certainly a bargain for everything that is included in the kit relative to some of the other options out there.

Unfortunately, my wife will not let me spend any more money on car mods after I stole her Bootmod3 license to use on my own car

As a result, OEM and FCPEuro for me
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      04-21-2021, 10:40 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellokitty View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by fknlo View Post
Or just buy the kit from Mishimoto that replaces all of that for the price of the CSF cooler alone and never worry about any of it again.
Mishimoto is certainly a bargain for everything that is included in the kit relative to some of the other options out there.

Unfortunately, my wife will not let me spend any more money on car mods after I stole her Bootmod3 license to use on my own car

As a result, OEM and FCPEuro for me
Lol. I remember you mentioning that and seeing if she would notice. Obviously she did haha that's awesome. I still admire the effort.
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      04-26-2021, 02:45 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellokitty View Post
Mishimoto is certainly a bargain for everything that is included in the kit relative to some of the other options out there.

Unfortunately, my wife will not let me spend any more money on car mods after I stole her Bootmod3 license to use on my own car

As a result, OEM and FCPEuro for me
These guys are a staple in the jdm world, both my old sti and evo had their parts and was amazing on all fronts. Definitely spending money on their power kit in a month or 2 following my ch fix
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