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      07-14-2017, 06:05 PM   #1
noone
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Buying used? Be aware of BMW M Performance School cars for sale

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I'm looking into buying a used '16 competition M3. I noticed a couple of interest at United BMW, which I understand to be a high volume BMW dealer, and after explicitly asking if these cars were Driving School cars, I was told that yes, they were "Driving Program" cars. At first, the salesman on the phone said it was a leased car driven by a "BMW Executive". When I asked him again if this was a "Driving School" car, he went and checked with his manager and came back and confirmed my suspicion.

Edit- As of 7/21/2017, there are around 20 2016 competition M3s for sale around the country at BMW dealerships, and 19 of 20 are M School cars and only carry the 4 year, non-extended warranty.

Be aware of these cars if you are buying in the used market. In my opinion, these cars are worth a significant amount less than what these are listed for since these were HEAVILY abused cars at M School. Most prospective buyers are probably not even aware these were Driving Program cars. I believe these cars were around 88K new and are selling at dealer auctions for around 66K.

Warning signs of a Driving School car:

1. Used car has the competition package.
2. Used car has carbon ceramic brakes.
2. Used car has around 5-7K on the odo.
3. Used car's CarFax states a leased car, and then shows the car was sold at a dealer auction and "Listed as a manufacturer vehicle" around the 5-7K mark.
4. DMV registration was in Woodcliff Lake, NJ. This is where BMW NA is located
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Last edited by noone; 07-21-2017 at 07:59 PM..
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      07-15-2017, 11:05 AM   #2
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I'd be more afraid of the person who buys my cars....
redline on the daily. 29,000 miles of pure pedal to the metal driving...
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      07-15-2017, 11:20 AM   #3
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Another thing to consider as a warning sign/red flag is the DMV registration in Woodcliff Lake, NJ. This is where BMW NA is located.
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      07-15-2017, 11:56 AM   #4
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Good info thx
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      07-15-2017, 09:02 PM   #5
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Those cars are overpriced even if they were normal pre-owned. That's the biggest takeaway for me. These cars were built to run and I'd argue that 7k miles of daily wear and tear is not that much different.
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      07-15-2017, 09:20 PM   #6
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These cars were driven as they were designed to be driven under the supervision of BMW instructors and were meticulously maintained by BMW. I would have less problem buying one of these than one that was owned by a private individual that I didn't know.
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      07-15-2017, 09:27 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
These cars were driven as they were designed to be driven under the supervision of BMW instructors and were meticulously maintained by BMW. I would have less problem buying one of these than one that was owned by a private individual that I didn't know.
With all due respect, this statement sounds like a car salesman pitch. Seriously? An M School car absolutely, ragged out and sweated in weekend after weekend on a track is a safer bet to buy than from a someone who used it in a more than likely daily driver much more serene scenario? I doubt a leasee drives 7k miles of track time on his lease he turns in at 20k after 2-3 years. I'll take my chances NOT buying M School cars, thank you very much.

Last edited by noone; 08-02-2017 at 06:43 PM..
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      07-15-2017, 09:40 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noone View Post
With al due respect, this statement sounds like a car salesman pitch. Seriously? An M School car absolutely, ragged out and sweated in weekend after weekend on a track is a safer bet to buy than from a someone who used it in a more than likely daily driver much more serene scenario? I doubt a leasee drives 7k miles of track time on his lease he turns in at 20k after 2-3 years. I'll take my chances NOT buying M School cars, thank you very much.
I am far from a car salesman. To each his own. I would not have a problem with one of these cars and they are still under full factory warranty.
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      07-15-2017, 11:36 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
These cars were driven as they were designed to be driven under the supervision of BMW instructors and were meticulously maintained by BMW. I would have less problem buying one of these than one that was owned by a private individual that I didn't know.
No way... you must have never been to PDC or m track days. The "everyperson" doesn't know how to handle these and they are literally tortured.

These are well maintained yes but abused... Think a constantly beaten Rottweiler that was just groomed and put through a day or two of obedience school.

They should have deep discounts beyond CPO depreciation

Last edited by JSTDR1V; 07-16-2017 at 07:42 AM..
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      07-17-2017, 11:27 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
These cars were driven as they were designed to be driven under the supervision of BMW instructors and were meticulously maintained by BMW. I would have less problem buying one of these than one that was owned by a private individual that I didn't know.
I could not disagree more.
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      07-18-2017, 11:02 AM   #11
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I live in Atlanta and recently purchased an M4 from United. They were very forth coming with me as to which cars were PDC cars. Also, they said BMW will not CPO a car that was used at the PDC, which should be useful for those searching.
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      07-18-2017, 11:29 AM   #12
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BMW does not sell Driving School cars to public. I'm 99.9999% sure
It would be too much liability on them. JMO
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      07-18-2017, 11:34 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M4 GTS View Post
BMW does not sell Driving School cars to public. I'm 99.9999% sure
It would be too much liability on them. JMO
I respectfully disagree with you. I am pretty sure they do. Nevertheless, I do not see how it would be too much liability on them. You sell a car for "as is" and you do not make any oral representations, then there is zero liability on you. That is the beauty of "as is." Not to mention that any perceived liability falls on the dealer who bought the car "as is" at the auction. Liability may practically play zero role here in the calculus. How else do rental cars sell their cars used at auction with no lawsuits? It's because they are all sold "as is." You think rental car companies take care of those engines? Hell no.
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      07-18-2017, 12:32 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thescout13 View Post
I respectfully disagree with you. I am pretty sure they do. Nevertheless, I do not see how it would be too much liability on them. You sell a car for "as is" and you do not make any oral representations, then there is zero liability on you. That is the beauty of "as is." Not to mention that any perceived liability falls on the dealer who bought the car "as is" at the auction. Liability may practically play zero role here in the calculus. How else do rental cars sell their cars used at auction with no lawsuits? It's because they are all sold "as is." You think rental car companies take care of those engines? Hell no.
No problem. That's what I've been told in Thermal CA, because we ask them what happens to the cars after they retire and they told us that all test cars and driving school cars are crushed in the end.
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      07-18-2017, 12:46 PM   #15
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No problem. That's what I've been told in Thermal CA, because we ask them what happens to the cars after they retire and they told us that all test cars and driving school cars are crushed in the end.
Wow that's insane. Seems like they could have gotten a little something out of them on the auction block. Wonder if it is a different SOP for the PCD cars.
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      07-18-2017, 01:13 PM   #16
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Just buy new LOL
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      07-18-2017, 07:16 PM   #17
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It's highly unlikely they "crush" the M School cars after being used for 5-7k. In fact, if you read on this forum about M School experiences, the instructors explicitly said they put new wheels and tires on the cars and then sell them at dealer auctions, as I have proven in the first post of this thread I posted. It would make absolutely no economic sense to "crush" these vehicles after M School use. BMW is a business after all.
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      07-18-2017, 09:17 PM   #18
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Thoughts on this car?

https://www.carfax.com/VehicleHistor...8M9C59G5D31493
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      07-18-2017, 11:30 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noone View Post
It's highly unlikely they "crush" the M School cars after being used for 5-7k. In fact, if you read on this forum about M School experiences, the instructors explicitly said they put new wheels and tires on the cars and then sell them at dealer auctions, as I have proven in the first post of this thread I posted. It would make absolutely no economic sense to "crush" these vehicles after M School use. BMW is a business after all.
Just came back from m school. This is exactly what happenes. Dealer auctioned usually.
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      07-19-2017, 07:10 AM   #20
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If you believe every M-school cars are crushed at the end, I have bridge to sell (cheap).

Even Top-gear show, which rakes in money like crazy from sponsors sell their test cars into auction, why? cause every bit of dollars back is better than ZERO.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...used-Gear.html
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      07-19-2017, 09:02 AM   #21
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Priced too close to new and slightly used cars to be worth the risk to me.
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      07-19-2017, 09:14 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axz17 View Post
Looks like a lot of issues. Listed as manufacturer vehicle. Lemon Law buyback?
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