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      07-19-2017, 09:21 AM   #23
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      07-19-2017, 09:24 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
These cars were driven as they were designed to be driven under the supervision of BMW instructors and were meticulously maintained by BMW. I would have less problem buying one of these than one that was owned by a private individual that I didn't know.

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Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
To each his own. I would not have a problem with one of these cars and they are still under full factory warranty.
This coming from you I am frankly a little surprised. Stating this on the forum is one thing but actually buying it is a different story altogether.

I would not hesitate to buy a car that has been tracked regularly by a known reputable member on here. That would be a single owner car, tracked, maintained and meant to be driven like it should. I know it would have been taken care of since it was owned by someone.

I would however never consider a car that was used for M School primarily because of the number of newbie owners it exchanged hands with. Most folks who come for these track days have never tracked a car. That coupled with the fact that they don't own these cars, the cars are definitely abused to the maximum.

Total inexperience in track driving, multiple inexperienced drivers and lack of regard because it's not their car is what would drive me far far away from these cars.
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      07-19-2017, 09:31 AM   #25
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I bought a 2002 330i with Msport package that turned out to be used for the BMW M driving school (my best guess). I owned the car for almost 14 years and 190,000km. Aside from it eating a bit more oil then normal (in my opinion) nothing significant ever went wrong with the car.
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      07-19-2017, 09:42 AM   #26
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Are they not reconditioned before sold pre-owned? I noticed they are not CPO but the major wear item as a result of track use...Brakes (pads, rotors, fluid, calipers), tires, any applicable bushings..etc.?
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      07-19-2017, 11:26 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by RobC2 View Post
Looks like a lot of issues. Listed as manufacturer vehicle. Lemon Law buyback?
I would call the dealer and ask. If it's a BMW dealer, I would think as a reputable business entity they would disclose if asked directly.
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      07-19-2017, 11:34 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M4 GTS
BMW does not sell Driving School cars to public. I'm 99.9999% sure
It would be too much liability on them. JMO
Back in 2006 or so BMW sold a PDC Z8 on EBay Motors.


On a side note: IMO 7k miles at a PDC probably equates to 60k "daily driver" miles. There are a lot of parts that aren't replaced under normal maintenance (IE, suspension and associated wear components, stress on the frame itself and associated interior bits).
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      07-19-2017, 11:37 AM   #29
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I'd be more afraid of the person who buys my cars....
redline on the daily. 29,000 miles of pure pedal to the metal driving...
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      07-19-2017, 11:41 AM   #30
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I would call the dealer and ask. If it's a BMW dealer, I would think as a reputable business entity they would disclose if asked directly.
I question the argument of BMW dealership, thus reputable business. Some of the worst dealership I have been to have been BMW. I would take everything said by a salesman at any car dealership at face value.
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      07-19-2017, 11:49 AM   #31
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I bought my 2015 M235i from a dealer with 4011 miles on it in February 2016. They were upfront that it was a demo car used at the factory in SC to familiarize people picking up their factory delivered car. So it had been driven a little hard. Skip pad, slalom, breaking practice, and track course. I got the car which was fully loaded for 25% off the sticker ($53,560 down to $40,000) with the remaining factory warranty and it's eligible for extended warranty or extended maintenance contracts. A asked a friend who is a BMW CCA chapter president if he thought it was ok. He said it was made to be used and the factory shop kept it tip top. The only thing I've had to replace were the bald rear tires. I guess they did some launches too. I'm happy so far. If it turns lemon on me, I'll trade it.
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      07-19-2017, 11:51 AM   #32
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M Performance School used cars aren't really anything too much to be afraid of. They are extremely well maintained while they are at the school and they will usually come with an extended warranty. I know a guy who bought a used M School BMW M6 Coupe at an extremely good discounted price and his car came with a 75,000 mile factory warranty, but his M6 only had 5,xxx miles on it when he bought it.

The biggest way you can tell if a car is a used M Performance School car is if it has Carbon Ceramic Brakes but no Full Leather option. On the M5 and the M6 M School cars they even spec them out with the Bang & Olufsen sound system for some reason, but none of them ever have the Full Leather option.

I personally would never buy a used M School car simply because none of them have Full Leather. I need my ///M cars to have Full Leather, it just makes the ownership experience so much better for me. Otherwise I think it's pretty safe to go ahead and buy one, especially if it comes with a 75,000 mile factory warranty.
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      07-19-2017, 11:56 AM   #33
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Another thought, any car is worth something, you just have to find the right price. Ask them to take another $10k off and throw in an extended warranty! If your hesitant, get a different car. It's your money. By the way, never trust any dealer. The more expensive the car is the higher the stakes and the more money they can make.
My car was on the lot for several months as everyone wanted the manual transmission. I did too, but took the hit as you can't option a used car your way. Turns out I'm happy with the ZF 8 speed. If those ///M cars sit, they will deal.
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      07-19-2017, 11:57 AM   #34
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We asked this question when I did the M-school in SC and they absolutely told us the cars were refurbished, repaired, repainted if needed due to track rash, and then put on the market. They did state the cars came with a disclosure, but whether or not that disclosure was passed on properly by the reseller is another story.

That was primarily wheels/brakes/tires and cosmetics. Did not include clutches, or anything that worked in a "non-broken" state.

And I agree that if you think a car that is running constantly in the SC heat lap after lap will have the same level of wear as a normal daily driven car, even one which is poorly maintained over 10k miles you are fooling yourself. ESP for the DCT transmissions which are getting banged around, power slid, and spun off into the grass from a skidpad.

Whether or not that doesn't mean you couldn't get a great deal on one and still get a decade of happy service is another story, but most of those issues would not show up under warranty in the timeframe the car is covered, and I suspect if you did show up with a DCT clutch replacement before 50k that they would cover it in the first place.
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      07-19-2017, 12:00 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassicaia View Post
I bought a 2002 330i with Msport package that turned out to be used for the BMW M driving school (my best guess). I owned the car for almost 14 years and 190,000km. Aside from it eating a bit more oil then normal (in my opinion) nothing significant ever went wrong with the car.
That car had a much lower level of tech (no turbos to blow, no DCT, etc).

Also keep in mind the M-school runs different level of classes. They have PCD vehicles which are used when you pick up your new 340i, and those see fairly mundane usage compared to the M-cars which are used for the 2 day track schools, advanced M-schools at VIR/elsewhere. Those cars are tracked hard in the summer and put away wet after a single cooldown lap.

Not to say you couldn't own one of these cars happily and healthily, but the disclosure and knowing is important.
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      07-19-2017, 12:01 PM   #36
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When I did an M day at Spa Franchorchamps I was told all those cars were going back to BMW for essentially a 'small rebuild' with new parts before being sold. Anyway they made it sound that they would be in pretty good condition afterwards but not sure how much was true!
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      07-19-2017, 12:06 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberdemon View Post
We asked this question when I did the M-school in SC and they absolutely told us the cars were refurbished, repaired, repainted if needed due to track rash, and then put on the market. They did state the cars came with a disclosure, but whether or not that disclosure was passed on properly by the reseller is another story.

That was primarily wheels/brakes/tires and cosmetics. Did not include clutches, or anything that worked in a "non-broken" state.

And I agree that if you think a car that is running constantly in the SC heat lap after lap will have the same level of wear as a normal daily driven car, even one which is poorly maintained over 10k miles you are fooling yourself. ESP for the DCT transmissions which are getting banged around, power slid, and spun off into the grass from a skidpad.

Whether or not that doesn't mean you couldn't get a great deal on one and still get a decade of happy service is another story, but most of those issues would not show up under warranty in the timeframe the car is covered, and I suspect if you did show up with a DCT clutch replacement before 50k that they would cover it in the first place.
Speaking of lying dealers, I was told all M school cars were junked upon retirement. Smelled funny when I heard that. I guess I know where my dealer stands with the truth, or he was lied to. Cars are a depreciating asset. Get what you love. A used Toyota is great for reliable cheep transport. An ///M car is not. Your paying enough for three or four used Toyotas because you want a track ready car.
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      07-19-2017, 12:06 PM   #38
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Keep in mind that these PDC cars fly off the track several times a day...this is more than just "hard driving the way BMW intended"...you're looking at off the track madness and damage to the paint (at best) due to everyday drivers "having fun" with these cars.

Took the below pic recently.....
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      07-19-2017, 12:18 PM   #39
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What a coincidence to see this posting now. I just picked up my M2 from the performance center on Friday. Matt Mullins was nice enough to sit with us at lunch and we had a long conversation about his personal cars through the years. He has been there forever and stars in many of their commercials and BMW Films. You can Google him. He told us they do sell their cars but none of the employees get special pricing as they are all auctioned. While they do get constant maintenance, he sounded as if he would not buy one himself unless it was at a great discount. 99% of their miles are HARD driven miles.
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      07-19-2017, 12:19 PM   #40
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One caveat to my used demo car, BMW will not cpo a car used at the factory for factory delivery demo. I'm sure they won't do cpo on an M school car either. I got the remaining factory warranty which covers me until October 2018 or 50k, and it had 4011 on it when I got it 2/2016. If it turns out lousy after the warranty is up, it gets traded.
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      07-19-2017, 12:19 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M4 GTS View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thescout13 View Post
I respectfully disagree with you. I am pretty sure they do. Nevertheless, I do not see how it would be too much liability on them. You sell a car for "as is" and you do not make any oral representations, then there is zero liability on you. That is the beauty of "as is." Not to mention that any perceived liability falls on the dealer who bought the car "as is" at the auction. Liability may practically play zero role here in the calculus. How else do rental cars sell their cars used at auction with no lawsuits? It's because they are all sold "as is." You think rental car companies take care of those engines? Hell no.
No problem. That's what I've been told in Thermal CA, because we ask them what happens to the cars after they retire and they told us that all test cars and driving school cars are crushed in the end.
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Originally Posted by Thescout13 View Post
I respectfully disagree with you. I am pretty sure they do. Nevertheless, I do not see how it would be too much liability on them. You sell a car for "as is" and you do not make any oral representations, then there is zero liability on you. That is the beauty of "as is." Not to mention that any perceived liability falls on the dealer who bought the car "as is" at the auction. Liability may practically play zero role here in the calculus. How else do rental cars sell their cars used at auction with no lawsuits? It's because they are all sold "as is." You think rental car companies take care of those engines? Hell no.
No problem. That's what I've been told in Thermal CA, because we ask them what happens to the cars after they retire and they told us that all test cars and driving school cars are crushed in the end.
This is absolutely not true at all. When BMW retires them, they send them to a BMW only auction. BMW dealers get the chance to bid and win, they're shipped to the store and inspected, and any work that needs to be done is completed.
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      07-19-2017, 12:30 PM   #42
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crushes them. LOL ..... Fake news much?
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      07-19-2017, 12:33 PM   #43
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I'm sure many people here rag on their cars much worse.
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      07-19-2017, 12:42 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
These cars were driven as they were designed to be driven under the supervision of BMW instructors and were meticulously maintained by BMW. I would have less problem buying one of these than one that was owned by a private individual that I didn't know.
You've never attended one.

"designed", "supervision", "meticulously"? lmao
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