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      07-19-2017, 02:25 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Unknown GT4 View Post
Accually these BMW cars are not at all driver hard. I was doing the BMW M Expert Drivers Training on Nurburgring just now.
The US Driver Training Program cars are not treated anywhere near as well as the RoW locations. BMWNA Legal Dept has a very different view as to how they are managed. The M Performance Pagid Brake pads are not allowed to be installed, which forced the fitment of CCB here as the standard M Compound pads were destroying rotors every day due to the high ambient temperatures.

Last edited by lemetier; 07-19-2017 at 02:31 PM..
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      07-19-2017, 02:26 PM   #68
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Also add DCT to the list of options all performance school F8X's have.

There are obviously differing opinions about the cars, but someone is going to buy them. If the buyer is made aware of the facts and is able to negotiate a significant discount, it might be worth it - especially if long-term ownership is not planned. However, these cars may take a hit on their 2nd resale if the owner is honest and explains it was originally a PS car.
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      07-19-2017, 02:38 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Sweden View Post
Little disappointed in BMW for selling these cars to the uninformed public. If BMW won't CPO them they know the cars are trashed. It's underhanded AF.
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Originally Posted by Rock Sweden View Post
Little disappointed in BMW for selling these cars to the uninformed public. If BMW won't CPO them they know the cars are trashed. It's underhanded AF.
Agreed, my M235i cannot be cpo, but I got a loaded M235i for 25% off the sticker with only 4011 miles on it and a full factory warranty. These M cars have 7-8k and they're offering 12-15% off sticker??? How about 25-30%? That might be ok. Dealers constantly misrepresent cars. The fact that these cars may be wrecked, but no police reports to show n carfax, because it was on private property. I would ask for a deal and a pre-purchase inspection by an independent mechanic.
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      07-19-2017, 02:44 PM   #70
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they are required to tell you it was a car from the performance center. we had a customer come in and check on an M6 he bought from a different dealer that didn't disclose the info and he sued them.
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      07-19-2017, 03:06 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobC2 View Post
Looks like a lot of issues. Listed as manufacturer vehicle. Lemon Law buyback?
I'd run away as fast as I could....

If it WASNT a lemon law buyback, it soon will be.
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      07-19-2017, 03:10 PM   #72
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Wink Great post...

Regardless... I'd never buy any used M car.
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      07-19-2017, 03:17 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ORIGIN M. View Post
Regardless... I'd never buy any used M car.
Not everyone is Mr Moneybags like you
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      07-19-2017, 03:53 PM   #74
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When I did PCD, our instructors kept telling us: "Remember, NYC, Not Your Car. So drive it like you stole it." So we were actively encouraged to do drive the cars hard. I wouldn't buy a PDC car myself.
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      07-19-2017, 03:54 PM   #75
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That's why you don't buy these cars and you lease them. They also cannot be certified or have extended warranty purchased for them.
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      07-19-2017, 04:26 PM   #76
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Those cars have been previously titled and you likely cannot lease them except through a secondary lender.

Performance center are ineligible for CPO enrollment and OEM extended service contracts.

Those cars have been properly maintained and serviced as the chances BMW would put a student in a compromised vehicle are slim to nil.

But for sure those cars aren't flawless and if you're buying them you should know what you're getting. The salesmen won't have the full history if you're seriously considering them but their managers will.

For example the cars listed in the OP's post 2 of them had their differentials replaced with remanufactured ones, one had a brake caliper replaced, and one has over $11K in repaired damage.

It's a negative or an opportunity depending on your perspective. So you know what they are and you can negotiate as such. If I was wanting one and ok with not owning it out of warranty why not if it's you can swipe them significantly below market.
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      07-19-2017, 04:30 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M4 GTS View Post
BMW does not sell Driving School cars to public. I'm 99.9999% sure
It would be too much liability on them. JMO
101% sure they absolutely do auction off the PC cars. OP is right with his research.
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      07-19-2017, 04:35 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Ace View Post
thanks for these tips, I am in the process of buying a preowned M as well. I'll look for this.

Any tips on whether these cars tend to be DCT or 6MT? Also, any tips on West Coast cars, as BMW also runs the school in the LA area? I doubt registration would be in NJ for these cars.
BMW NA's headquarters are in NJ, so a thermal car will still be NJ registered.
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      07-19-2017, 04:37 PM   #79
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You've never attended one.

"designed", "supervision", "meticulously"? lmao
You are wrong - I have.
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      07-19-2017, 04:38 PM   #80
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This SO F80 is a PC car. $101K ish MSRP. Full leather.

https://www.unitedbmw.com/detail-201...-16579926.html

So the configuration isn't an "always"

I think if you see Woodcliff, NJ you start digging for info. It's prob not a certainty but merits further inquiries.
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      07-19-2017, 04:50 PM   #81
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FWIW I had an allocation for a 1M a few years back. I was number 2 on the list. Mysteriously after 6 months I dropped to 4 on the list and the dealer only had 3 total allocated so I didn't get one. I complained to BMW Germany and I get a call from BMW USA saying they have a demo/press car available if I want it. I asked for more details and they told me that the car would not qualify for extended warranty. I hadn't planned to anyway but if that's not a red flag I don't know what is.

If you've ever gone to a BMW Octoberfest event and seen BMWUSA demo there cars you'll get an idea of how hard they are run.

I passed on the 1M and now own an M2. If buying a used M car from the dealer you may want to ask if the car qualifies for the warranty regardless of whether you intend to get it.
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      07-19-2017, 05:02 PM   #82
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Not to mention, those cars didn't even undergo the 1200 miles service fluid flush; and, even if they did, how does the consumer know -- CarFax is the only 3rd Party, reliable information available for Consumers like us.
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      07-19-2017, 05:03 PM   #83
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Just did an M school and cars were getting trashed. Well maintained but utterly trashed. Anyone believing that this compared to a like 7k mile car have taken the same abuse is severely mentally crippled. Cars are launched and ripped apart. I'd stay way way way away from these cars. Wit the amount of abuse they have been put through it would have to be 50% off MSRP for me to even think about one.
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      07-19-2017, 05:22 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hirkaismyname View Post
Not to mention, those cars didn't even undergo the 1200 miles service fluid flush; and, even if they did, how does the consumer know -- CarFax is the only 3rd Party, reliable information available for Consumers like us.
They do. Well, most do.
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      07-19-2017, 05:23 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hirkaismyname View Post
Not to mention, those cars didn't even undergo the 1200 miles service fluid flush; and, even if they did, how does the consumer know -- CarFax is the only 3rd Party, reliable information available for Consumers like us.
They do the 1200 mile service and most have clear bra on them to.
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      07-19-2017, 05:25 PM   #86
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With BMW refusing to CPO them or even allow you to buy an extended warranty is the biggest red flag to me. They don't even think they are going to last long without major repairs.

When I was there in April of 2016 I saw a few people go off track, especially on the skid pad exercise. It would have to be a much more significant discount for me to ever think of buying one.

As others have said, they do not crush them. My local dealer just recently had 4-5 of them for sale. The dead giveaway is that they have CCB, DCT, but usually are not very loaded after that and they are very low mileage with no CPO.
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      07-19-2017, 05:40 PM   #87
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To sum it up "Buyer be where". If it's not meant to be, don't force it.
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      07-19-2017, 05:43 PM   #88
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The prices are crazy. That is around what I paid for my '17 new. Do the brakes really bring that much more on the used market?
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