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      07-19-2017, 05:44 PM   #89
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Simple question is why buy a PC car when other non PC cars are available ??

The only answer is because a significant "SIGNIFICANT" discount. Otherwise no way.
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      07-19-2017, 05:48 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibiza View Post
To sum it up "Buyer be where". If it's not meant to be, don't force it.
Is that like buyer beware?
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      07-19-2017, 06:12 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M4 GTS View Post
BMW does not sell Driving School cars to public. I'm 99.9999% sure
It would be too much liability on them. JMO
Quote:
Originally Posted by M4 GTS View Post
BMW does not sell Driving School cars to public. I'm 99.9999% sure
It would be too much liability on them. JMO

They do sell them. I took the driving school and the instructors mentioned that some of the cars get sold. Some others get send to bmw so engineers can take them apart and see how things hold up after the intense driving and heat (at thermal).
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      07-19-2017, 06:19 PM   #92
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Anybody remember reading the post from a while back about the guy who bought a nice low mileage M3 and it ended up having a ton of problems, he found out later it was a car used for the Top Gear review...not related at all, this thread just reminded me of that. Even a few hundred miles of abuse causes permanent damage.
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      07-19-2017, 06:31 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noone View Post
I'm looking into buying a used '16 competition M3. I noticed a couple of interest at United BMW, which I understand to be a high volume BMW dealer, and after explicitly asking if these cars were Driving School cars, I was told that yes, they were "Driving Program" cars. At first, the salesman on the phone said it was a leased car driven by a "BMW Executive". When I asked him again if this was a "Driving School" car, he went and checked with his manager and came back and confirmed my suspicion.

Be aware of these cars if you are buying in the used market. In my opinion, these cars are worth a significant amount less than what these are listed for since these were HEAVILY abused cars at M School. Most prospective buyers are probably not even aware these were Driving Program cars. I believe these cars were around 88K new and are selling at dealer auctions for around 66K.

Warning signs of a Driving School car:

1. Used car has the competition package.
2. Used car has carbon ceramic brakes with the cloth seats.
2. Used car has around 5-7K on the odo.
3. Used car's CarFax states a leased car, and then shows the car was sold at a dealer auction and "Listed as a manufacturer vehicle" around the 5-7K mark.
4. DMV registration was in Woodcliff Lake, NJ. This is where BMW NA is located
Let's be real...don't buy any used car from United. Also, United has a method to how they list the refurb and manufacter buy-backs. Is in the stock numbers. Different ones stand for different things. Their pre-owned BMWs are from 6 different sources including IRS buys. If you are uninformed, you will get hosed. How many people know to ask the specific question about the performance center? Right...exactly. Do you think they'd volunteer the info. Most of the M's from United were used as PC vehicles. If you knowingly want to purchase one from them knowing the history, that's up to you. I'd personally pass. Do you even think they did the manufacturer specified breaking procedure? I think not. If you do, I have the moon to sell you.
But thanks for the Lease tip in Woodcliff, NJ. That I did not know.
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      07-19-2017, 06:32 PM   #94
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Let's be real...don't buy any used car from United. Also, United has a method to how they list the refurb and manufacter buy-backs. Is in the stock numbers. Different ones stand for different things. Their pre-owned BMWs are from 6 different sources including IRS buys. If you are uninformed, you will get hosed. How many people know to ask the specific question about the performance center? Right...exactly. Do you think they'd volunteer the info. Most of the M's from United were used as PC vehicles.

If you knowingly want to purchase one from them knowing the history, that's up to you. I'd personally pass. Do you even think they did the manufacturer specified breaking procedure? I think not. If you do, I have the moon to sell you.
But thanks for the tip on Leasing in Woodcliff, NJ. That I did not know.
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      07-19-2017, 06:41 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M4 GTS View Post
No problem. That's what I've been told in Thermal CA, because we ask them what happens to the cars after they retire and they told us that all test cars and driving school cars are crushed in the end.
I can only imagine how you get around in your daily life if you believe that. Maybe if "in the end" meaning after several more owners, 3 decades, and a couple hundred thousand miles.
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      07-19-2017, 06:57 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
You are wrong - I have.
Oh your M4 must be one of them and you are trying your best to make yourself believe BMW track demo cars are meticulously cared for. Sorry bud but these cars shouldn't even be for sale.
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      07-19-2017, 07:01 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by termigni View Post
Oh your M4 must be one of them and you are trying your best to make yourself believe BMW track demo cars are meticulously cared for. Sorry bud but these cars shouldn't even be for sale.
My M4 was ordered and purchased new from the factory in 2014. You might note that 14 others agreed with me, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion. Have a nice day.
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Last edited by SakhirM4; 07-19-2017 at 07:07 PM..
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      07-19-2017, 07:11 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
My M4 was ordered and purchased new from the factory in 2014. You might note that 14 others agreed with me, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion. Have a nice day.
14 other BMW dealer workers versus countless people who do not agree with you 15 people in this thread.
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      07-19-2017, 07:16 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by termigni View Post
14 other BMW dealer workers versus countless people who do not agree with you 15 people in this thread.
And it makes you feel good to trash someone's opinion because they disagree with you? As I said, you have a right to your opinion and that is just fine. Cheers
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      07-19-2017, 07:24 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
These cars were driven as they were designed to be driven under the supervision of BMW instructors and were meticulously maintained by BMW. I would have less problem buying one of these than one that was owned by a private individual that I didn't know.
100% agree with this statement
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      07-19-2017, 07:27 PM   #101
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I'm shopping for a low-mileage Macan Turbo and I'm trying to decide if I'd buy any used car with carbon brakes. The replacement costs are scary! My understanding is the rotors need to be taken off and weighed to measure remaining life... I doubt that information is going to be provided. The CCB alone would scare me from one of these unless the discount was heavy.
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      07-19-2017, 07:31 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IB M View Post
Simple question is why buy a PC car when other non PC cars are available ??

The only answer is because a significant "SIGNIFICANT" discount. Otherwise no way.
This, exactly.
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      07-19-2017, 08:00 PM   #103
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One clear way to tell is looking at the drivers side door lower section, they clip radios on to the section where the storage bin is so all of the cars show scratches in that area. I did the 2 day M School. We all drove the cars hard but I have to say I don't think they are abused per say, if I could get one at a screaming deal I would consider it but I certainly would not pay a retail price for one.
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      07-19-2017, 08:11 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shockin330i View Post
I'd be more afraid of the person who buys my cars....
redline on the daily. 29,000 miles of pure pedal to the metal driving...

"pure pedal to the metal"
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      07-19-2017, 08:14 PM   #105
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Lol. If i knew for a fact one of the PC cars has been in two different accidents for a combined total over $11k and has had its rear diff replaced while being offered for sale would you still have no hesitation to buy it?
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      07-19-2017, 09:01 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
I'm shopping for a low-mileage Macan Turbo and I'm trying to decide if I'd buy any used car with carbon brakes. The replacement costs are scary! My understanding is the rotors need to be taken off and weighed to measure remaining life... I doubt that information is going to be provided. The CCB alone would scare me from one of these unless the discount was heavy.
You don't need CCBs. Biggest bullshit mod ever unless you are tracking more than you daily.
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      07-19-2017, 09:17 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classyfast View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
I'm shopping for a low-mileage Macan Turbo and I'm trying to decide if I'd buy any used car with carbon brakes. The replacement costs are scary! My understanding is the rotors need to be taken off and weighed to measure remaining life... I doubt that information is going to be provided. The CCB alone would scare me from one of these unless the discount was heavy.
You don't need CCBs. Biggest bullshit mod ever unless you are tracking more than you daily.
CCB is worse for track. Forces big wheels and carbon rotors wear fast and expensive
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      07-19-2017, 09:53 PM   #108
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when I did M school back in April, I was shocked that they resell these things at used market values. I think one surefire way to avoid one is to get a 6MT!!!
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      07-19-2017, 10:11 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jandref321 View Post
Anybody remember reading the post from a while back about the guy who bought a nice low mileage M3 and it ended up having a ton of problems, he found out later it was a car used for the Top Gear review...not related at all, this thread just reminded me of that. Even a few hundred miles of abuse causes permanent damage.
THIS
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      07-19-2017, 10:26 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M4 GTS View Post
No problem. That's what I've been told in Thermal CA, because we ask them what happens to the cars after they retire and they told us that all test cars and driving school cars are crushed in the end.
i work at bmw dealer and thats what they tell you at product genius training
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