proTUNING Freaks
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Technical Topics > Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust / Bolt-ons / Tuning

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-16-2021, 08:56 AM   #23
Msm1984
Private First Class
Msm1984's Avatar
United_States
121
Rep
183
Posts

Drives: 16 M4
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Miami

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by F80_Greg View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopJimmy View Post
In a discussion that I've had with Sales@Kratos it's more clear that adding top lube to E85 in hopes of "injectors not sticking" is likely pointless. Their statement is that running E85 on stock fueling with big turbos requires the tune to push the HPFP Target very high to supply enough fuel, and injectors subjected to this very high pressure will fail much faster. They made it clear that failure is not related to extended duty cycles (Halim runs Kratos+gas at high injector duty cycle but not x-high HPFP pressure) or internal corrosion (they spoke with Bosch engineers). Adding PI to DI would allow for not maxing out the HPFP Target.
ey have done the
I can vouch with jimmy. I too just ran into possible injector problems. Possible stuck or leaky injector. Always used Lucas stabilizer on every tank of e85. Car only ran full E for 2k miles..still trying to figure it out. Car is idling rough but drives perfect fine. Which injector do you guys recommend for a 2017? For some reason realoem.com with my vin shows 2 different part numbers
Quote:
Originally Posted by F80_Greg View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopJimmy View Post
In a discussion that I've had with Sales@Kratos it's more clear that adding top lube to E85 in hopes of "injectors not sticking" is likely pointless. Their statement is that running E85 on stock fueling with big turbos requires the tune to push the HPFP Target very high to supply enough fuel, and injectors subjected to this very high pressure will fail much faster. They made it clear that failure is not related to extended duty cycles (Halim runs Kratos+gas at high injector duty cycle but not x-high HPFP pressure) or internal corrosion (they spoke with Bosch engineers). Adding PI to DI would allow for not maxing out the HPFP Target.
ey have done the
I can vouch with jimmy. I too just ran into possible injector problems. Possible stuck or leaky injector. Always used Lucas stabilizer on every tank of e85. Car only ran full E for 2k miles..still trying to figure it out. Car is idling rough but drives perfect fine. Which injector do you guys recommend for a 2017? For some reason realoem.com with my vin shows 2 different part numbers

It's a pain in the ass because then u have to find out which injector is causing the issue which takes forever unless you just swap them all out.
__________________
08 E92 M3
16 M4
17 M2
17 M4 ZCP ( current )
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2021, 01:12 PM   #24
TopJimmy
Lieutenant Colonel
TopJimmy's Avatar
United_States
1194
Rep
1,661
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 F80
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Chester County, PA

iTrader: (1)

Your spark plug condition should tell you if an injector is squirting too much. I've never heard of the S55 getting clogged injectors (too little fuel), just stuck ones (too much).
__________________
'18 F80 Base 6MT | FBOs | Kies Hub | Paul's E85 | Stock Turbos | 7 seconds 60-130
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2021, 01:26 PM   #25
papasmurf_m3
Captain
papasmurf_m3's Avatar
United_States
280
Rep
622
Posts

Drives: YMB F80 M3
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: San Diego

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TopJimmy View Post
Your spark plug condition should tell you if an injector is squirting too much. I've never heard of the S55 getting clogged injectors (too little fuel), just stuck ones (too much).
Like 3 out of the 6 were clogged on mine. None were pouring fuel. #1 was stuck shut.

After cleaning they are all firing perfectly and got a grade of excellent.
__________________
IG @papasmurf_m3

60-130 mph 6.72 secs

ecutek - bend calibration - flex fuel - mpe - stock turbos - oem+
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2021, 01:27 PM   #26
papasmurf_m3
Captain
papasmurf_m3's Avatar
United_States
280
Rep
622
Posts

Drives: YMB F80 M3
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: San Diego

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Msm1984 View Post
How are the bosch injectors on e85? Like 600$ for a set of 6
FCP euro has them cheap. Like 400 or so. Original BMW were like 600.
__________________
IG @papasmurf_m3

60-130 mph 6.72 secs

ecutek - bend calibration - flex fuel - mpe - stock turbos - oem+
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2021, 01:32 PM   #27
fiveohwblow
Captain
fiveohwblow's Avatar
United_States
1534
Rep
841
Posts

Drives: E70, E46 M3, F82
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Desert SW

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TopJimmy View Post
Your spark plug condition should tell you if an injector is squirting too much. I've never heard of the S55 getting clogged injectors (too little fuel), just stuck ones (too much).
You see my question? Would m5 injectors be a good route?
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2021, 03:56 PM   #28
F80_Greg
Private First Class
F80_Greg's Avatar
United_States
127
Rep
186
Posts

Drives: F80 M3 ZCP 6MT
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: California

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TopJimmy View Post
@F80_Greg if an injector sticks then you're hosed and the cylinder partially fills with fuel. I doubt you have a dirty/clogged injector since you ran 85% alcohol through it for 2K miles. If it was stuck you'd be blowing clouds of smoke. You would know for sure by pulling plugs, one would be wet or stink of fuel.

If you do need an injector check FCP Euro, they have OEM ($$$) and Bosch ($). I used one Bosch and it worked fine.
Thanks again! I checked and the upstream are only oem no Bosch lol about 250 each. But if that's what's needed then i will get it
__________________
2017 F80 M3 ZCP 6MT, Full Bolt Ons, Pure Stage 2 Turbos, E85 Fuel, BMP Port Injection, PR LPFP, AIC PI Controller, BM3 Custom Tune by Cary Jordan.
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2021, 04:17 PM   #29
TopJimmy
Lieutenant Colonel
TopJimmy's Avatar
United_States
1194
Rep
1,661
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 F80
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Chester County, PA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiveohwblow View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopJimmy View Post
Your spark plug condition should tell you if an injector is squirting too much. I've never heard of the S55 getting clogged injectors (too little fuel), just stuck ones (too much).
You see my question? Would m5 injectors be a good route?
I asked Kratos which injectors but they're hush-hush until they finish their testing. They said we could ask Halim. Either way you probably need a custom tune or you'll overdo the fueling.
__________________
'18 F80 Base 6MT | FBOs | Kies Hub | Paul's E85 | Stock Turbos | 7 seconds 60-130
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2021, 04:19 PM   #30
TopJimmy
Lieutenant Colonel
TopJimmy's Avatar
United_States
1194
Rep
1,661
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 F80
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Chester County, PA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by papasmurf_m3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopJimmy View Post
Your spark plug condition should tell you if an injector is squirting too much. I've never heard of the S55 getting clogged injectors (too little fuel), just stuck ones (too much).
Like 3 out of the 6 were clogged on mine. None were pouring fuel. #1 was stuck shut.

After cleaning they are all firing perfectly and got a grade of excellent.
Thanks Papa! Now we know. What fuel were you using when you clogged?
__________________
'18 F80 Base 6MT | FBOs | Kies Hub | Paul's E85 | Stock Turbos | 7 seconds 60-130
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2021, 06:47 PM   #31
Msm1984
Private First Class
Msm1984's Avatar
United_States
121
Rep
183
Posts

Drives: 16 M4
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Miami

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TopJimmy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by papasmurf_m3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopJimmy View Post
Your spark plug condition should tell you if an injector is squirting too much. I've never heard of the S55 getting clogged injectors (too little fuel), just stuck ones (too much).
Like 3 out of the 6 were clogged on mine. None were pouring fuel. #1 was stuck shut.

After cleaning they are all firing perfectly and got a grade of excellent.
Thanks Papa! Now we know. What fuel were you using when you clogged?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopJimmy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by papasmurf_m3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopJimmy View Post
Your spark plug condition should tell you if an injector is squirting too much. I've never heard of the S55 getting clogged injectors (too little fuel), just stuck ones (too much).
Like 3 out of the 6 were clogged on mine. None were pouring fuel. #1 was stuck shut.

After cleaning they are all firing perfectly and got a grade of excellent.
Thanks Papa! Now we know. What fuel were you using when you clogged?

If you were to take out ur injectors if you thought one had an issue, how could you physically tell if one is stuck open by looking at it?
__________________
08 E92 M3
16 M4
17 M2
17 M4 ZCP ( current )
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2021, 07:43 PM   #32
TopJimmy
Lieutenant Colonel
TopJimmy's Avatar
United_States
1194
Rep
1,661
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 F80
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Chester County, PA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Msm1984 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopJimmy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by papasmurf_m3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopJimmy View Post
Your spark plug condition should tell you if an injector is squirting too much. I've never heard of the S55 getting clogged injectors (too little fuel), just stuck ones (too much).
Like 3 out of the 6 were clogged on mine. None were pouring fuel. #1 was stuck shut.

After cleaning they are all firing perfectly and got a grade of excellent.
Thanks Papa! Now we know. What fuel were you using when you clogged?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopJimmy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by papasmurf_m3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopJimmy View Post
Your spark plug condition should tell you if an injector is squirting too much. I've never heard of the S55 getting clogged injectors (too little fuel), just stuck ones (too much).
Like 3 out of the 6 were clogged on mine. None were pouring fuel. #1 was stuck shut.

After cleaning they are all firing perfectly and got a grade of excellent.
Thanks Papa! Now we know. What fuel were you using when you clogged?

If you were to take out ur injectors if you thought one had an issue, how could you physically tell if one is stuck open by looking at it?
Put your lips on the threaded end and make a little pressure. A stuck one bleeds air. I put a squirt of rubbing alcohol in there and it came out the tip. A good injector should stay shut until triggered electrically to open.
__________________
'18 F80 Base 6MT | FBOs | Kies Hub | Paul's E85 | Stock Turbos | 7 seconds 60-130
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2021, 09:21 PM   #33
papasmurf_m3
Captain
papasmurf_m3's Avatar
United_States
280
Rep
622
Posts

Drives: YMB F80 M3
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: San Diego

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TopJimmy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by papasmurf_m3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopJimmy View Post
Your spark plug condition should tell you if an injector is squirting too much. I've never heard of the S55 getting clogged injectors (too little fuel), just stuck ones (too much).
Like 3 out of the 6 were clogged on mine. None were pouring fuel. #1 was stuck shut.

After cleaning they are all firing perfectly and got a grade of excellent.
Thanks Papa! Now we know. What fuel were you using when you clogged?
I was on E85 for few weeks straight I'm sure the stock injectors weren't great I think running the tank low is not good it might be sucking crud.
__________________
IG @papasmurf_m3

60-130 mph 6.72 secs

ecutek - bend calibration - flex fuel - mpe - stock turbos - oem+
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2021, 10:31 PM   #34
Msm1984
Private First Class
Msm1984's Avatar
United_States
121
Rep
183
Posts

Drives: 16 M4
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Miami

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by papasmurf_m3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopJimmy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by papasmurf_m3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopJimmy View Post
Your spark plug condition should tell you if an injector is squirting too much. I've never heard of the S55 getting clogged injectors (too little fuel), just stuck ones (too much).
Like 3 out of the 6 were clogged on mine. None were pouring fuel. #1 was stuck shut.

After cleaning they are all firing perfectly and got a grade of excellent.
Thanks Papa! Now we know. What fuel were you using when you clogged?
I was on E85 for few weeks straight I'm sure the stock injectors weren't great I think running the tank low is not good it might be sucking crud.
Quote:
Originally Posted by papasmurf_m3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopJimmy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by papasmurf_m3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopJimmy View Post
Your spark plug condition should tell you if an injector is squirting too much. I've never heard of the S55 getting clogged injectors (too little fuel), just stuck ones (too much).
Like 3 out of the 6 were clogged on mine. None were pouring fuel. #1 was stuck shut.

After cleaning they are all firing perfectly and got a grade of excellent.
Thanks Papa! Now we know. What fuel were you using when you clogged?
I was on E85 for few weeks straight I'm sure the stock injectors weren't great I think running the tank low is not good it might be sucking crud.

When mine got stuck open i was driving really hard low gas. I will never again go to the 0 miles till empty recommendation either. 15miles to empty is fine just drive for a bit before going into boost
__________________
08 E92 M3
16 M4
17 M2
17 M4 ZCP ( current )
Appreciate 1
      01-17-2021, 06:00 AM   #35
TopJimmy
Lieutenant Colonel
TopJimmy's Avatar
United_States
1194
Rep
1,661
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 F80
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Chester County, PA

iTrader: (1)

I wouldn't be concerned about picking up tank debris and running down to — — since the LPFP has prefilter and the HPFPs have a fine filter inside. I read that here somewhere but haven't taken those apart yet to see.
__________________
'18 F80 Base 6MT | FBOs | Kies Hub | Paul's E85 | Stock Turbos | 7 seconds 60-130
Appreciate 0
      01-19-2021, 07:31 AM   #36
Dippydo
Lieutenant Colonel
198
Rep
1,522
Posts

Drives: 2015 Silverstone II F82
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Katy, TX

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2012 BMW  [0.50]
Wouldnít it be a safe assumption running PI would encounter overworking the injectors since you are splitting the workload up? Havenít ran into too many people having injector issues in PI. Seems to be more those that run meth to run full e?
Appreciate 0
      01-19-2021, 07:42 AM   #37
TopJimmy
Lieutenant Colonel
TopJimmy's Avatar
United_States
1194
Rep
1,661
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 F80
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Chester County, PA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dippydo View Post
Wouldn't it be a safe assumption running PI would encounter overworking the injectors since you are splitting the workload up? Haven't ran into too many people having injector issues in PI. Seems to be more those that run meth to run full e?
If you run PI with E85 then it can supply half the fuel. This way the DI side doesn't need to be pushed to its limits, and possibly run at the safe pressures used for gasoline.

If you didn't have PI and used meth for extra fueling the meth bungs can't supply enough fuel for half, so DI is still in overdrive. If adding meth as fuel consider 6x port spray nozzles to get even distribution. When guys use bung meth for extra fueling they risk uneven distribution (boom).
__________________
'18 F80 Base 6MT | FBOs | Kies Hub | Paul's E85 | Stock Turbos | 7 seconds 60-130
Appreciate 0
      01-19-2021, 07:58 AM   #38
Dippydo
Lieutenant Colonel
198
Rep
1,522
Posts

Drives: 2015 Silverstone II F82
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Katy, TX

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2012 BMW  [0.50]
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopJimmy View Post
If you run PI with E85 then it can supply half the fuel. This way the DI side doesn't need to be pushed to its limits, and possibly run at the safe pressures used for gasoline.

If you didn't have PI and used meth for extra fueling the meth bungs can't supply enough fuel for half, so DI is still in overdrive. If adding meth as fuel consider 6x port spray nozzles to get even distribution. When guys use bung meth for extra fueling they risk uneven distribution (boom).
Iím on PI so just wanted to confirm my thoughts on that because in theory you are splitting the job and not running at max. Main reason was to make sure I dont Come across the uneven distribution with meth. Had a friend pop a motor with that issue. So far havenít been able to turn it up. Have a knock going on at higher RPMs so Paul thinks it the e85 so Iím going to try c85 this weekend to rule that out. I tested it and the pump e85 was right on the money but we will see. I did replace the spark plugs at same time so maybe that. Scratching my head on this one. Didnít knock on e50 before the pi install so not sure.
Appreciate 0
      04-19-2021, 11:05 AM   #39
McBobby Jr
Private First Class
McBobby Jr's Avatar
27
Rep
121
Posts

Drives: '16 M4 ZCP
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Anchorage, AK

iTrader: (0)

This thread made me do some more digging for all the Ethanol Lubricants out there. I came across Red Line Alcohol Fuel Lubricant but can't seem to find any info on it. Red Line makes a solid line of products across the board so I'm curious as to how this compares to the other Ethanol Conditioners/Lubricants out there. It also states on their website for this lubricant to not be used on any vehicle with catalytic converters. I looked at their Product Data sheet to see why that would be the case but they simply don't state why their Alcohol Lubricant should not be used on a car with cats. Anybody here have experiences with this lubricant?
__________________
'16 F82 M4 ZCP - catless dp w/ bm3 stage 2
'08 E90 335i Montego Blue
Appreciate 0
      04-19-2021, 09:18 PM   #40
mdma-zn
Private
43
Rep
98
Posts

Drives: BMW M2C
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Motor Plan Land

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by McBobby Jr View Post
This thread made me do some more digging for all the Ethanol Lubricants out there. I came across Red Line Alcohol Fuel Lubricant but can't seem to find any info on it. Red Line makes a solid line of products across the board so I'm curious as to how this compares to the other Ethanol Conditioners/Lubricants out there. It also states on their website for this lubricant to not be used on any vehicle with catalytic converters. I looked at their Product Data sheet to see why that would be the case but they simply don't state why their Alcohol Lubricant should not be used on a car with cats. Anybody here have experiences with this lubricant?
The Redline active ingredient is a phosphate which could lead to deactivation of your catalytic converter.
I use PowerPlus as my lubricant and it works well:
https://www.powerpluslubricants.com/store/c6/toplubes
Appreciate 0
      04-19-2021, 09:35 PM   #41
McBobby Jr
Private First Class
McBobby Jr's Avatar
27
Rep
121
Posts

Drives: '16 M4 ZCP
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Anchorage, AK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdma-zn View Post
The Redline active ingredient is a phosphate which could lead to deactivation of your catalytic converter.
I use PowerPlus as my lubricant and it works well:
https://www.powerpluslubricants.com/store/c6/toplubes
Can you smell anything from those scented lubricants?
__________________
'16 F82 M4 ZCP - catless dp w/ bm3 stage 2
'08 E90 335i Montego Blue
Appreciate 0
      04-19-2021, 09:39 PM   #42
mdma-zn
Private
43
Rep
98
Posts

Drives: BMW M2C
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Motor Plan Land

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by McBobby Jr View Post
Can you smell anything from those scented lubricants?
Off course.
I prefer and use only unscented though...
Appreciate 0
      04-19-2021, 09:46 PM   #43
McBobby Jr
Private First Class
McBobby Jr's Avatar
27
Rep
121
Posts

Drives: '16 M4 ZCP
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Anchorage, AK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdma-zn View Post
Off course.
I prefer and use only unscented though...
I'll look more into this lubricant and see if anybody else has experience with this on other platforms like the R35, C6/7, etc.
__________________
'16 F82 M4 ZCP - catless dp w/ bm3 stage 2
'08 E90 335i Montego Blue
Appreciate 0
      04-19-2021, 09:47 PM   #44
MisterF80M3
Major
MisterF80M3's Avatar
873
Rep
1,044
Posts

Drives: 2018 M3
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: CA

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdma-zn View Post
The Redline active ingredient is a phosphate which could lead to deactivation of your catalytic converter.
I use PowerPlus as my lubricant and it works well:
https://www.powerpluslubricants.com/store/c6/toplubes
Just stick with Lucas. They are the most popular E85 conditioner.

__________________
2018 BMW F80 ///M3
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:59 AM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST