My M4 GTS build, GT3HNTR.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

A friend took a similar route with his GTS. Suspension replaced with MCS 3WR, full SPL arms, brakes.
The GTS equipped like that is a better GTS. It still has aero, an engine that is water injected, CF hood for weight reduction and ventilation and other specific things like a different bushing in the rear suspension, different uprights. etc.

You can always mod car X to be faster than car Y. What Lienrocks has, however, is still a GTS while a normal M3 will always be a normal M3. For example, Lienrock's car is in an upwards depreciation slope vs downwards for most cars.

Right. And it's important to draw a distinction between what's required for regular track work and what's discretionary, optimization for individual purposes (like Lienrocs), hunting for tenths.

GTS requires camber plates and a brake solution, which can be as simple as CCB to iron swap. You could stop there.

[Lienrocs]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

A friend took a similar route with his GTS. Suspension replaced with MCS 3WR, full SPL arms, brakes.
The GTS equipped like that is a better GTS. It still has aero, an engine that is water injected, CF hood for weight reduction and ventilation and other specific things like a different bushing in the rear suspension, different uprights. etc.

You can always mod car X to be faster than car Y. What Lienrocks has, however, is still a GTS while a normal M3 will always be a normal M3. For example, Lienrock's car is in an upwards depreciation slope vs downwards for most cars.

Agreed. I don't think I've fundamentally changed the ethos of the car. I wanted it to be oem plus. Anyone who isn't extremely well versed in BMW's thinks it rolled off the show room floor like this (maybe apart from the wheels). That was the goal.

[jpy1980]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

A friend took a similar route with his GTS. Suspension replaced with MCS 3WR, full SPL arms, brakes.
The GTS equipped like that is a better GTS. It still has aero, an engine that is water injected, CF hood for weight reduction and ventilation and other specific things like a different bushing in the rear suspension, different uprights. etc.

You can always mod car X to be faster than car Y. What Lienrocks has, however, is still a GTS while a normal M3 will always be a normal M3. For example, Lienrock's car is in an upwards depreciation slope vs downwards for most cars.

Originally Posted by Lienrocs

I was blown away too. I was expecting closer to 3600.

I was trying to run the numbers myself. The seats are the big weight savings.

However, everything else, I don't think is that much lighter. I swapped the CCB's for irons so that's about a wash. The wheel/tire combo I'm running may be lighter cause the 666's are made of belt buckles but I have a heck of a lot of tire so I'm not even sure they're lighter. I do know the ohlins dampers are silly light. I'm not sure you could use the rear as a paperweight they're that light.

Maybe all the SPL arms add up to a bigger savings than I thought.

Understood! After reading this thread and my appreciation for the F8x chassis, I'm starting to warm up to the fact that I may actually want a GTS instead of a GT3 for my next toy....hmmm =)

Enjoy your car in good health! I'm quite jealous!

[stevehifi]

Originally Posted by Lienrocs

Hey Steve,

Let me double check my notes on the damper settings and I'll get back to you. I do know I took some rebound out of and added compression to the rear.

So about spring rates, I went through half a dozen sets of springs including 800 fronts and 1300 rears and the car just didn't work. I'm not sure what lengths the ohlins factory set comes with but I couldn't find a rear spring long enough to get the rear end to work in the divorced set up. On the 1300 pound rear spring it was like a skateboard. It was really hard to drive at that ride height without any real suspension travel. I wish my car were a bit lower for style points but the way it drives more than makes up for it.

what spring lengths did you end up with in the front and rear?

was it just the rear that gave you problems?

[Gomeler]

Great looking build, and it sounds like you're getting the results that you want out of it. Have anything else planned, or do you consider the car finished?

[Lienrocs]

Originally Posted by Gomeler

Great looking build, and it sounds like you're getting the results that you want out of it. Have anything else planned, or do you consider the car finished?

I have one more thing in the works to try and get a better motion ratio out of the rear and really (try) to optimize the geometry back there. I'll keep everyone posted on how it works out but I'm hopeful.

Other than that the car is done in my eyes.

[Lienrocs]

Originally Posted by stevehifi

what spring lengths did you end up with in the front and rear?

was it just the rear that gave you problems?

I'll get back to you on lengths. We had to order a few sets to get them in on time due to the crazy weather we were having.

[Lienrocs]

Also, for the damper settings we ended up with:

Front: 14C/13R
Rear: 16C/11R

The whole weekend we focused on getting the entry oversteer out of the car so didn't even touch the front damper settings. When the pace started getting there after the rear end was mostly sorted we started getting some mid corner understeer. Next outing we're going to focus on dialing the front end to really get the car working.

[FormulaMMM]

You mentioned the TTX being a better balance of street & track.

Have a sense of how much track progress has been made with the suspension and related mods? How much further you're ahead vs. working with the factory KW?

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

You mentioned the TTX being a better balance of street & track.

Have a sense of how much track progress has been made with the suspension and related mods? How much further you're ahead vs. working with the factory KW?

Although the GTS I was close to moved to MCS 3WR suspension -and I would do the same-, I know another GTS guy -who also has a ZL1 1000whp track monster- who chose instead to develop the stock KW CS 3W and also achieved excellent results and is super happy

[Lienrocs]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

You mentioned the TTX being a better balance of street & track.

Have a sense of how much track progress has been made with the suspension and related mods? How much further you're ahead vs. working with the factory KW?

Yeah. The TTX is definitely impressive with a caveat. I have the TTX46 front damper on my GTS and had the TTX36 front on my E92 and the performance between the two is markedly different. The E92 was a step above the damping quality of the factory KW's in the GTS but the step between the TTX36 to the TTX46 is a similar improvement. The 46 is in a different league compared to the 36 but both were better than the factory KW on both street and track (after getting the set up right).

Street comfort is all relative as well but, although the car is more firm than it was with the KW's, it isn't harsh in any way. It takes freeway expansion joints and staccato bunks really really well. And that's with all the rubber out of the suspension, which I never ran with the factory suspension.

As for actual track improvement I ran a 2:02 on the factory everything at chuckwalla CW, after the repave (apart from putting a better seat in). My last track outing my theoretical was a 1:57.3 because I got stuck in some traffic but I put down three sub 1:59 laps with my actual PB at a 1:58.2. And I know with some more seat time and a bit more fine tuning I can break under a 1:56. And that's all with me in the car. If you put a real driver in there it would just hurt my feelings cause I'll never be that fast.

[swagon]

So would you say that even fiddling with the settings on the factory KWs didn't help enough?

Cool build; love seeing GTS' getting love.

[Lienrocs]

Originally Posted by swagon

So would you say that even fiddling with the settings on the factory KWs didn't help enough?

Cool build; love seeing GTS' getting love.

Help in what way? To make it more streetable or better on track?

I tried both with no real success. But the thing is I'm not really super capable of making those adjustments anyways without some guidance from a pro. Especially on track. Like I said, I put the TTX on and went slower. The car was borderline undrivable. It took a lot of fiddling to get it working on par with the stock set up and the guidance of a real race shop to get it working as I expected.

You can definitely make the stock suspension more street friendly because handling isn't as important. Just dump a bunch of rebound and compression and call it a day. But that wasn't the point of my build. I wanted to drive he car comfortably on the street and put down really competitive lap times with zero changes. I run the same wheels/tires and even the same damper settings. That's where the TTX (and I imagine something like an MCS 2/3way) really shines. Once it's set that's it. No more fiddling between comfort and speed.

[EasyBimmerCoding]

Great share!

[Lienrocs]

Originally Posted by EasyBimmerCoding

Great share!

Thank you!

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Lienrocs

Help in what way? To make it more streetable or better on track?

I tried both with no real success. But the thing is I'm not really super capable of making those adjustments anyways without some guidance from a pro. Especially on track. Like I said, I put the TTX on and went slower. The car was borderline undrivable. It took a lot of fiddling to get it working on par with the stock set up and the guidance of a real race shop to get it working as I expected.

You can definitely make the stock suspension more street friendly because handling isn't as important. Just dump a bunch of rebound and compression and call it a day. But that wasn't the point of my build. I wanted to drive he car comfortably on the street and put down really competitive lap times with zero changes. I run the same wheels/tires and even the same damper settings. That's where the TTX (and I imagine something like an MCS 2/3way) really shines. Once it's set that's it. No more fiddling between comfort and speed.

Agreed. And Lienrocks brings up a really good point about adjusting the suspension.

I can easily feel the difference between a 2WNR and a 3W system, but to actually configure either is a skill I absolutely don't have. Due to this, I put myself in hands of people who know these things. In the case of Lienrocks, his trusted shop has TTX, in mine it's MCS but I bet we are getting to similar places

I don't think the KW 'cannot' get adjusted well. Like I mentioned earlier, another friend has a very serious track GTS and he did all the work with the stock KWs. Different springs, etc, but stock valving.

[Rusty_Schackleford]

This car has made me re-think my current E92

Definitely my favorite GTS out there. I hope we can link up at the track one day so I can get some photos of that beast. Awesome build.

[Lienrocs]

Originally Posted by Rattle_headd

This car has made me re-think my current E92

Definitely my favorite GTS out there. I hope we can link up at the track one day so I can get some photos of that beast. Awesome build.

I rethink my current E92 every day as well, and it's no slouch.

I love my GTS. I'm going to be at chuckwalla on the 20-21st.

Also, thank you for the kind words!

[jacobe92]

One Kick Ass build. Bravo 👏 👏👏

[Lienrocs]

Originally Posted by jacobe92

One Kick Ass build. Bravo 👏 👏👏

Thank you!

[Darth One]

Originally Posted by Lienrocs

Sorry about the lack of photo documentation. I forget to take pictures until everything is finished and then it's too late!

I like the 4th pic of GT3HNTR actually hunting a GT3

[Lienrocs]

Originally Posted by Darth One

I like the 4th pic of GT3HNTR actually hunting a GT3

You have to deliver if you talk a big game. Haha.