Custom E85 & FlexFuel Tuning: Reviews of Different Tuners (MHD, BM3, & EcuTek))

[m5_mbb7]

Originally Posted by proTUNING Freaks

Oh boy, lots of hard comments here

Link to this thread was sent to us asking for clarification on some comments and feedback by a few forum members so we'll try keep this as short as possible.

- BM3 has had EU5 support for years. There are no known inherent issues and if there are any our support is here to review logs and offer insight and help with anything required

- ALL tables required for tuning EU5 injectors correctly are present in our map editor along with an easy toggle in the map configuration screen. Our own 2019 M4CS shop dev car has run them for years, still is and we exclusively run on Ignite Red which is 90% ethanol. This car now has a built motor, transmission, single turbo conversion running a G42-1200 turbo.

- If anyone's had some issues on EU5 injectors our tech support would like to know about it and resolve it with you by reviewing a log showing the issue at hand. There are countless BM3 tuned S55 cars running on ethanol and EU5 injectors over the years and this is the first time we hear of anyone having an issue, let alone a lack of tables to 'properly' tune EU5 injectors on an S55

- As for the comments on tables and their availability to tuners when using BM3. BM3 has more OEM tables exposed in its map editor, on every software version/vehicle supported, than any other. CustomROM S55 support has close to 6000 tables exposed (attached pic for reference)

- Map editor is the most advanced, with features such as cross rom importing, version history and imports at file and table level, flashing and logging from editor, and unique support for something called related tables that help advanced tuners during new table discovery understand functional table relationships while tuning.Editor is free for anyone with tuning knowledge and each and every person willing to access the editor and use it goes through an approval process through tech support where examples of their tuning and other platforms used in the past are discussed before being provided access.

- Recent release added support for full offline mode tuning where advanced tuners can use external map editors as well for tuning and for their customers to flash entirely in offline mode without ever sending maps through the cloud. This long time coming request by some tuners out there has finally been made possible via the new bm3 V2 app.

- Tuning for power, especially on your basic boltons, with any octane, is something that's been done countless times over the years with multiple records during that time.

- BM3 does not require adding an additional OBD port in the car. You simply use your existing OBD port and run ENET/FlexRay connectivity that is faster and has higher throughput than mentioned additional OBD port being added when it comes to flashing as well as datalogging. With our new WiFi adapter, connectivity is now easier and faster than ever.

- BM3 has the largest number of data channels exposed (across internal DID and RAM variables). In addition, it also has a higher overall throughput ability with 70+ channels loggable concurrently at 20 samples/sec with automatic cloud uploads removing the need for dealing with CSV files, attachments and emails with tuners cutting down time tremendously while tuning. Keep in mind, we are/were tuners in our past lives and we know how much time this costs in the long run for everyone involved and why it was built from the getgo back in 2016.

- Our current bootmod3.net website is slated to be replaced on laptop/desktops for macos/windows by the new bm3 app v2 interface that already runs on iOS and Android in the next few releases as we work to port it over. This will make the user experience equal across all devices where bootmod3 is used.

There's a great deal of new features coming down the pipeline for BM3 CustomROM V2 release this year, some of which are already in testing across multiple platforms as this is written including the S55 and our M4CS mentioned above.

If any questions at all we'd be glad to respond and clarify. Picture attached of the BM3 editor showing CustomROM table count for just this one software version.

Myself and many other people have had negative experiences with bootmod, even with a $1700 custom tune on a dyno and with quite a few revisions on the street from Jordan in my case and I still had overboost issues and codes getting thrown left and right. My personal experience on ecutek was a lot smoother once I got it loaded onto my car (which admittedly was a PITA because my car was built in June 2021).

I get more than 20 samples/sec on ecutek with about 40 parameters enabled (the only useful ones according to my tuner). BM3 is a great one size fits all solution for the average user wanting to load an OTS map (despite the many codes I had randomly thrown while on OTS in addition to once I was custom tuned) but ecutek is the more mature platform supporting dozens of other brands and chassis and it shows in their UI and the way the car runs and drives. That’s why you have tuners that tune on both platforms preferring to tune on it.

I’m excited for CustomROM V2 though! Hopefully NLS will come with it 👀

[hellokitty]

Some good stuff here for those considering running flex fuel…

https://youtu.be/bPcVBc4-5Mk

[Commanderwiggin]

Originally Posted by proTUNING Freaks

BM3 has more OEM tables exposed in its map editor, on every software version/vehicle supported, than any other. CustomROM S55 support has close to 6000 tables exposed (attached pic for reference)

- Map editor is the most advanced...

Asked my tuner how many tables they have available in Ecutek for my M2C:

18082 with Racerom.

Also if BM3 is the most advanced, why don't you have true custom maps?
https://ecutek.atlassian.net/wiki/sp...s+Tuning+Guide
Or Port injection integration with the Motiv Reflex?

Having tuned my X3M recently via BM3 it has been much more cumbersome and the logging is definitely not even close to being as good as Ecutek nor as fast. Ecutek feels professional level, BM3 feels like an instagram homie hookup.

Regardless they're just different tools to make the same soup...the soup that tastes better to me is Ecutek.

[hellokitty]

More updates from the build from this week:

1) Nankang CRS 275/35/19 (f) and 305/30/19 (r) weren't cutting it on the ECUTek/Bend combo. Car started to feel unstable to on E30 data logging and the E30 blend was testing the limits of these tires even when warmed up. I wasn't very comfortable doing pulls on E50 as a result.

2) Determined to solve this, I pulled the trigger on a matched set of Nitto's and BOY WAS THIS A BONEHEADED MOVE ON MY PART.

I went with:

Nitto NT555G2 265/40/19 front (200TW)
Nitto NT555R2 305/35/19 rear (100TW)



I picked these sizes as it is nearly a perfect match in total diameter as the rotational difference is only 2 rotations per mile so the speedometer is PERFECT.

Nitto paired the R2 and G2 tires on similar compound and these are meant to pair up to each other on 2WD cars. The sticky R2 goes on the rear drive wheels and the G2 goes on the front. This combination is apparently popular with the 600whp - 1000whp crowd.



Now to my boneheaded move part. It was HELL to get the front to clear as there was MASSIVE rubbing. By going from 275/35 to 264/40, this added 0.8 inches in total diameter and created a massive headache. Basically, the car was basically unable to turn as the rubber from the tire wore against the rear metal body panel in the front driver wheel well. There was also rubbing on the passenger side, but it wasn't nearly as bad as the driver side. Here is a pic of the driver side rubbing.



As a result, I had to schedule an emergency alignment and corner balance with West End and Chris spent almost 6 hours dialing it all in.

1) This required the use of every SPL arm front and rear to get it done properly so I am glad I made the SPL investment several years ago. We also had to remove the rear camber lockout and returned back to stock camber eccentric bolts to reduce the negative camber in the rear.

2) We added some positive caster to clear the front from rubbing on metal. Now there is some slight rubbing on the plastic fenders, which I will address tomorrow using a Dremel tool to remove some of the plastic that is rubbing. There is NO more room to play with. We are talking about about 0.1 inches of clearance remaining with this setup.

3) We dialed back the negative camber to -2.0 square. This was from -2.5 square. This is the max that we can go without royally messing up the handling by raising the height of the car even more (see below).

4) We raised the car on all 4 corners 0.5 inches for clearance.

Final impressions:

1) The car handles surprisingly well and it is very stable at WOT. It adds A LOT of confidence during pulls. Before, it felt like the car would lose it at any moment during a log, but now, I have full confidence in the grip levels.

2) I will need to take it out on the canyons to test its limits for dynamics. However, based on my drive home, it still drives like a M3.

3) The added sidewall (40 front, 35 rear) from (35 front, 30 rear) adds a lot of comfort on poor roads.

4) 2nd and 3rd gear HOOKS. The R2 tires are are solid up to about 650-750whp before it starts dropping off grip, so this is perfect for a E85 stock turbo setup. I still haven't fully scrubbed in these tires yet, so I am sure it will get even better.

[F80RN]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

More updates from the build from this week:

1) Nankang CRS 275/35/19 (f) and 305/30/19 (r) weren't cutting it on the ECUTek/Bend combo. Car started to feel unstable to on E30 data logging and the E30 blend was testing the limits of these tires even when warmed up. I wasn't very comfortable doing pulls on E50 as a result.

2) Determined to solve this, I pulled the trigger on a matched set of Nitto's and BOY WAS THIS A BONEHEADED MOVE ON MY PART.

I went with:

Nitto NT555G2 265/40/19 front (200TW)
Nitto NT555R2 305/35/19 rear (100TW)



I picked these sizes as it is nearly a perfect match in total diameter as the rotational difference is only 2 rotations per mile so the speedometer is PERFECT.

Nitto paired the R2 and G2 tires on similar compound and these are meant to pair up to each other on 2WD cars. The sticky R2 goes on the rear drive wheels and the G2 goes on the front. This combination is apparently popular with the 600whp - 1000whp crowd.



Now to my boneheaded move part. It was HELL to get the front to clear as there was MASSIVE rubbing. By going from 275/35 to 264/40, this added 0.8 inches in total diameter and created a massive headache. Basically, the car was basically unable to turn as the rubber from the tire wore against the rear metal body panel in the front driver wheel well. There was also rubbing on the passenger side, but it wasn't nearly as bad as the driver side. Here is a pic of the driver side rubbing.



As a result, [...]

Wow what a nightmare lol

But thanks for this recommendation. I’m in need of a new set of tires for my track wheels so this helps me out

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by F80RN

Wow what a nightmare lol

But thanks for this recommendation. I’m in need of a new set of tires for my track wheels so this helps me out

What size wheel/tire combo do you run?

[F80RN]

Current setup is 19x9.5/10.5 BBS FiR

I’m attending the SoCal Drivers Club beginners day and will run 18x10/19x11 Apex EC7

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by F80RN

Current setup is 19x9.5/10.5 BBS FiR

I’m attending the SoCal Drivers Club beginners day and will run 18x10/19x11 Apex EC7

Awesome! Same wheel fitment as me.

Here she is after the wash tonight. I am really liking the bigger sidewall look haha.

[F80RN]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

Awesome! Same wheel fitment as me.

Here she is after the wash tonight. I am really liking the bigger sidewall look haha.

Holy shit those are some meats!!!

[hellokitty]

More updates!!

Target was E50 but I put in a bit more E85 than expected last night and it came up to around E55.

My goal was to see whether I was going to have any cold start issues in the morning like I did with BM3.

She fired up perfectly this morning on Ecutek/Bend with a perfect idle throughout the cold start procedure.

One thing to note is the cold start on Ecutek/Bend seems to have been modified since upon 1st start, the engine kicks up at a higher RPM (around 1500) for a split second on start-up. Not sure why, but maybe it is to help with the engine possibly stalling out on E85 on OEM cold start.

[ralphsmithiii]

I'll be running the same tire combo but on 18's hopefully by end of next week. I was asking about your setup in 19's and was advised to not go with the 40's up front, as like yourself, I did the math for front/rear OD and swore the width would work as well but with having the KW HAS went with the 275/35 in 18's and the 18x9.5 ET22 on the fronts to hopefully avoid any rubbing issues. Glad you got it sorted out! It looks mean AF, hoping I can achieve a similar look without having to lower the front more as in my case, I'd have issue clearing my drive way....

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by ralphsmithiii

I'll be running the same tire combo but on 18's hopefully by end of next week. I was asking about your setup in 19's and was advised to not go with the 40's up front, as like yourself, I did the math for front/rear OD and swore the width would work as well but with having the KW HAS went with the 275/35 in 18's and the 18x9.5 ET22 on the fronts to hopefully avoid any rubbing issues. Glad you got it sorted out! It looks mean AF, hoping I can achieve a similar look without having to lower the front more as in my case, I'd have issue clearing my drive way....

You should be fine with a 275/35/18.

When I ran 275/30/19 up front, there was some rubbing on the wheel liners. But with a 18" diameter in that size, you have a full 1" of additional clearance, which should avoid rubbing.

[hellokitty]

Here is the difference in cold start between BM3 (OTS @ E73) and ECUTEK (Bend at E55). BM3 does the same thing all the way down to E30 or so. No changes to the car between videos other than the switch to ECUTEK.

[slaughter.mode]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

Here is the difference in cold start between BM3 (OTS @ E73) and ECUTEK (Bend at E55). BM3 does the same thing all the way down to E30 or so. No changes to the car between videos other than the switch to ECUTEK.

That is bizarre. So both your custom and the OTS tunes both did that wobble? My cold start is super loud and idles much higher but I'm cat-less with a single non-resonated mid and a Remus muffler. Buttery smooth though.

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by slaughter.mode

That is bizarre. So both your custom and the OTS tunes both did that wobble? My cold start is super loud and idles much higher but I'm cat-less with a single non-resonated mid and a Remus muffler. Buttery smooth though.

Yup, both OTS and custom maps on BM3 produced that rough idle. This was after setting everything to Original like you did via the Web App and flashing with the laptop.

After comparing both videos, it seems like ECUTek targeted a higher cold start RPM at around 1200 during the first 10-15 seconds then dropped down to 1000.

BM3 targeted 1000 RPM at the same time and that’s when things got weird and started rough idling.

[slaughter.mode]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

Yup, both OTS and custom maps on BM3 produced that rough idle. This was after setting everything to Original like you did via the Web App and flashing with the laptop.

After comparing both videos, it seems like ECUTek targeted a higher cold start RPM at around 1200 during the first 10-15 seconds then dropped down to 1000.

BM3 targeted 1000 RPM at the same time and that’s when things got weird and started rough idling.

With my Bend tune my cold start is around 1200rpms for a second or two then drops down to 1000rpms then drops down to normal. It's audibly a very different exhaust tone that I can't even replicate with the valves open/closed/auto. It almost sounds like I'm running open downpipes for a second. Whatever Bend did, it's nothing like stock or any other tune I've ever ran. In almost a decade of S55 ownership I've never seen an idle surge like yours, though. Shame nobody could figure it out but glad it's sorted now.

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by slaughter.mode

So I have re-engaged my tune with Rickerman Tuning and after 10 revisions of it running with issues (29psi target on 91, yikes)....it's STILL having problems with the base tune. Chet told me he was reading a strange torque target reading that was 'impossible' but with the latest revision my car will not even start. There's a good chance I will just ditch this and chalk it a loss as he has had to open a ticket already with PTF just to understand what's going on. I also had recent successful tuners look at the logs and report that what's happening with this tune does not look good and there was concerns of damaging the engine. Shame because I was not under the impression this is how it would've gone but at this point risking blowing another engine is absolutely not worth the risk. I think this covers my review for that tuner for now.

Eeek. The only place I've heard of Chet Rickerman was on the F8X facebook group. He seems pretty popular on there and is recommended by a lot of folks in that group. However, like with a lot of FB content, I think that place is a cesspool of information and I would avoid getting technical advice from that place LOL

I had the same experience (on my old N54) with Wedge/Ken tuning. He was never able to get my car to run right on E50 even with a new HPFP. I think what you are doing is right. If they can't get it a working tune after 4-5 revisions (assuming no hardware issues), its time to jump ship.

[theweebabySeamus]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

Eeek. The only place I've heard of Chet Rickerman was on the F8X facebook group. He seems pretty popular on there and is recommended by a lot of folks in that group. However, like with a lot of FB content, I think that place is a cesspool of information and I would avoid getting technical advice from that place LOL

I had the same experience (on my old N54) with Wedge/Ken tuning. He was never able to get my car to run right on E50 even with a new HPFP. I think what you are doing is right. If they can't get it a working tune after 4-5 revisions (assuming no hardware issues), its time to jump ship.

He’s been somewhat active on here from time to time. I’ve picked his brain about some turbos I’ve been looking into.

[hellokitty]

Another update:

I threw on my old set of 763M wheels running Cup 2 (240) with 285/30/20 and set to 28 psi. Definitely not ideal for logging, but the weather has been crappy and I didn't want to run on my fresh NT555R2 set in cold weather for the next week.

I was able to squeeze in a E50 log to send to Bend and the power was SMOOTH. No traction issues with the new alignment set to -2.0 negative camber square.

Ambient was about 70f outside, but there were some peeks of sunshine so I knew I would be able to get the tire hot. Drove the car on my usual route (20 miles out of town) and got the tires warmed up to about 93f and then flogged it.

Very very smooth power delivery. My pants are still dry and I am still alive.

[F80RN]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

Another update:

I threw on my old set of 763M wheels running Cup 2 (240) with 285/30/20 and set to 28 psi. Definitely not ideal for logging, but the weather has been crappy and I didn't want to run on my fresh NT555R2 set in cold weather for the next week.

I was able to squeeze in a E50 log to send to Bend and the power was SMOOTH. No traction issues with the new alignment set to -2.0 negative camber square.

Ambient was about 70f outside, but there were some peeks of sunshine so I knew I would be able to get the tire hot. Drove the car on my usual route (20 miles out of town) and got the tires warmed up to about 93f and then flogged it.

Very very smooth power delivery. My pants are still dry and I am still alive.

I also just finished my E50 log and (since I’m Learning how to read logs) i didn’t see any timing corrections. I then asked Ian what I should look for on logs, as I noticed an erratic graph (I think it was an End Timing sensor?) and he told me the way BM3 logs Information that the graph looks erratic, but for what he looks for, every target is being hit and no corrections.


So, the E50 pulls HARD. I’m blending up to e60-65 for a log but thus far, Bend Calibration has exceeded my amateur expectations.

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by F80RN

I also just finished my E50 log and (since I’m Learning how to read logs) i didn’t see any timing corrections. I then asked Ian what I should look for on logs, as I noticed an erratic graph (I think it was an End Timing sensor?) and he told me the way BM3 logs Information that the graph looks erratic, but for what he looks for, every target is being hit and no corrections.


So, the E50 pulls HARD. I’m blending up to e60-65 for a log but thus far, Bend Calibration has exceeded my amateur expectations.

Definitely agree, E50 feels great. No timing corrections for me either.

Do you happen to know if there is more power on the table at E60 or E65? For some reason, I heard that he tapers power down above E50 to avoid overworking the fuel system, but I have yet to get there to find out.

[F80RN]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

Definitely agree, E50 feels great. No timing corrections for me either.

Do you happen to know if there is more power on the table at E60 or E65? For some reason, I heard that he tapers power down above E50 to avoid overworking the fuel system, but I have yet to get there to find out.

I read that too, but I have yet to get a log done. I just barely got my fuel to E60 (I didn’t drive my car at all last week).