06-13-2013, 08:51 AM | #45 | |
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The lighter you make the car with lightweight components, the harder it is to balance a long i6 with weight measures in the tail. A compact and short V6 would be the logical solution for a balanced and perfect 50:50 weight distribution in an lightweight M3/M4, even if the V6 will also be heavier than the S65. Just my 2 cents. |
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06-13-2013, 10:23 AM | #46 | |
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06-13-2013, 10:45 AM | #47 | |
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And for V6 vs I6 talking, who cares is car 0.1s faster on track whit V6. I6 just sound so much better and this mean ten times more. If you want go 0.1s faster on track, rent a race car driver to drive. Before someone say there is no differend on sound, then you mean too that there is no differend on sound between Flat six. and V6 also. E: Why Nissan GTr VR38DET is so heavy 275kg (~600lbs) vs 335i N55 190kg (400lbs) Last edited by Tåst; 06-13-2013 at 11:06 AM.. |
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06-13-2013, 01:47 PM | #48 | |
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06-13-2013, 01:58 PM | #49 | |
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For an object to pivot around an axis, the total moment of inertia of that object needs to be accelerated around that axis. The moment of inertia is proportional to the mass times the square of the distance of where the mass is located relative to the reference point I = m x d^2 If an object is pivoted around its center of gravity, then only the natural moment of inertia of that object needs to be considered. If the object is not pivoting around its center of gravity, the mass of the object times the square of the distance of the center of gravity relative to the pivoting axis needs to be added to the natural moment of inertia. On the vast majority of cars, only the front wheels are steered. So when a car is turning in a corner, the car actually pivots around the middle of the rear axle (not considering tire slip angle) and not around its center of gravity. Therefore, the closer the center of gravity is to the rear axle, the easier it is to pivot the car; hence the better handling dynamics. This is a major reason why mid engine cars are so nimble, first the natural moment of inertia of the car is lower because the mass is closer to the center of gravity and second because the center of gravity is closer the pivoting point between the rear axle. However, it is also a reason why mid engine cars can snap oversteer and are difficult to bring back. While on oversteer, the pivoting point is now in the middle of the front axle (or somehere around it) with the CG way in the back thus increasing the total moment of inertia (think 911 for an extreme example here). Other benefits of a rearward weight bias is increased traction on acceleration for RWD cars and a more balanced weight distribution on the tires when braking as the weight shifts forward. BTW, I have always believed that the F40 weight distribution was more in the 60/40 range… EDIT: Found this: Last edited by CanAutM3; 06-13-2013 at 02:25 PM.. |
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06-13-2013, 02:24 PM | #51 |
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06-13-2013, 03:22 PM | #52 |
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Youre right, best weight distribution is something 60/40 range. Google find just bring first information F40 50:50 ratio, I learn that never trust Google find first links...Sorry for wrong information.
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06-13-2013, 05:24 PM | #53 |
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Weight Distribution is more then front to back. Its where that weight is exactly located. It goes much further then corner balancing. Two car with exactly the same distribution will handle differently if the weight is over the axles or at the tips of the car. It all matters.
Either Way I hope its a I6. Hate V6's |
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06-13-2013, 05:31 PM | #55 |
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I just wish they would give us some information on the car. I believe the E92/93 is supposed to end production this month. It's a great car and no one is doubting that, but it is time to push the envelope and let us see what the new generation will bring. I don't doubt that some will still love the V8, hell I love the V8, but I LOVE torque and I can't wait to see the new engines output. Buying an M3 or an M4 is about obtaining a well rounded package. It's just not an engine. However, it should be able to distance itself in performance against it's competition. Otherwise why would I spend 75K for my current vehicle and 85 to 90K for the M4? Just bring it!
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06-13-2013, 05:33 PM | #56 |
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I think E92 M3 is EOP in the next month while E93 continues on to October. I think we are lucky if we get something little of worth at Frankfurt but I'm not counting on it. Heck it seems like the F32 which starts production in a few weeks will be revealed at Geneva or something
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06-13-2013, 06:00 PM | #57 | |
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06-13-2013, 06:52 PM | #58 | |
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06-13-2013, 06:53 PM | #59 |
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Technically the S2000 is mid engine as the engine sits behind the suspension, and,it does have a 50:50, will post pics of mine on scales later if anyone actually cares. I know it's kind of cheating but figured I'd through it out
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06-13-2013, 07:30 PM | #60 |
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06-13-2013, 07:39 PM | #61 | |
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Last edited by solstice; 06-13-2013 at 09:08 PM.. |
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06-13-2013, 11:49 PM | #62 | |
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Also noteworthy that he broke the tradition of inline 6 engines in prior generations of the Skyline. |
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06-14-2013, 12:06 AM | #63 |
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Excellent post.
I have posted on this BMW myth of "ideal" weight distribution many times. However, I have never captured all of the points you did. One thing remains unclear to me though and it might be a subtlety beyond basic concepts of vehicle dynamics. Something around a 60-40 weight distribution is certainly ideal for a sports or racing car. There may be some elements of handling in addition to less snap oversteer that are improved by 50-50.
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06-14-2013, 02:13 PM | #64 |
Mmmmm.. torque....
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Based on the 4 series numbers today, it's between 50 and 100lbs lighter than the E92, depending on engine..
That'd put the weight of the 4 series at 3427 - 3477lbs. I would assume that the M4 would be heavier than that, due to the wider track, but they can probably cannibalize weight from other places and of course, use more carbon fiber. 3300lbs would be nice, but at this moment, I'm thinking it'll be closer to 3500.
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06-15-2013, 08:26 AM | #65 | |
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06-15-2013, 08:28 AM | #66 | |
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Nissan Toyota, etc moved from I6 to V6 long before the GTR was concieved. |
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