S55 Engine - Modern Day 2JZ

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by JNoSol

These are stronger and grippier friction plate, however it won't hold even close to 900ft/lbs w/o a transmission tune for the M3/M4. These figures may be for the M5/M6 which shares the same DCT, but the computer is programmed to clamp tighter compared to the S55. A manual race clutch replacement comes with a spring loaded pressure plate and grippier clutch to match. A DCT's pressure plate is computer controlled. Without a transmission tune, this upgrade would be a waste of money.

I am sure Tranny tunes will come in due time.

Mike

[JNoSol]

Originally Posted by Railgun

I guess the same way that these are being tested on a 1200 HP F8x?

https://www.tpgtuning.com/Blog/Post/1


I'm not suggesting that the clutches will hold. And if there were a 900ft/lb motor in front of this DCT model, show me.

(Edit: the above is an agreement with you...though re-reading suggests otherwise)

That said, regarding clamping force, gripper clutches in themselves will help, and perhaps I'm ignorant with this particular DCT, but can you link where the actual hydraulic force is applied above and beyond the springs (other than obvious disengagement)?

It's a lot easier to test the holding capacity of manual clutch and axle, vs DCT disks. Manual clutch has a spring loaded pressure plate, which is designed by the manufacturer to the specific friction plate. Those are hardware tests, mechanically applying force then read the outcome when it slips or break. For DCT, they can't mimic the load being applied to the disks as it varies by gear/RPM/transmission.

The issue is the software of the M3/M4 DCT, upgrading disk alone won't increase the load to the disks manufacture's claim. Feel free to contact Terry @ BMS. He has an M3 DCT. He'll just tell you upgrading DCT with Dodson Clutches alone won't handle more power. A transmission tune is required to increase clamping force to make use of grippier friction plates.

The F-bodies DCT tune will release soon. The E9x M3 DCT guys already have tunes out for awhile now.

http://www.bpmsport.com/services/tra...-software.html
http://www.evolveyoure92m3.com/dct-gearbox-upgrade/

ESS and Gitani also have DCT tunes for the E9x M3s.

[MasterP]

They may have made less power, and may have been a less popular big power tuning platform but I always liked the RB26DETT. My favorite of the Boosted I-6's.

[8600RPM]

There is no e9x m3 dct tune to change clamping pressure and it won't exist on f80 platform. It's likely not a parameter tuners will master given it never happened on e92 even with supercharged howe've torque was much lower so the desire to find this fix may have been less

[JNoSol]

Originally Posted by Railgun

I understand how a pressure plate works. But neither of those tunes suggest that they're doing anything to increase that pressure. From the perspective of the DCT I would assume that it's a matter of replacing the springs that put pressure on the clutch pack.

Much like a standard pressure plate in a manual transmission is predetermined in terms of how much force it's providing, the same goes for the springs in the clutches of the DCT. There is no hydraulic pressure pushing against the clutches to increase the said force. Only to release them.

If that's wrong, I ask again to link where that's described.

It's called DCT Mechantroics software, please pick up the phone and ask ESS why DCT tune is important for high power upgrades with clutch. Although the M3/M4 share the same Getrag DCT, the software of clamping force are different. Both share the same OEM clutch part numbers, yet the M3/M4 will start slipping at 600lb-ft. The GetRag DCT doesn't use hydraulic, but electro-mechanic.

"The stock mechatronics software bar pressure, being stock, would still "slip". So yes, raising the bar pressure is needed to accommodate the new HP/TQ power to prevent slipping" This is one of many responses you'll see around this topic, Terry at BMS will confirm this as well if you want to contact him yourself vs seeing re-quotes on the forum.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=747010

[JNoSol]

Originally Posted by M3*GaryShrig*M3

I am currently testing a transmission tune for the DCT in my M4. It is supposed to adjust clamping force, slip, torque limits, shift speeds, etc.

I will be writing a full review on Monday sometime after I have had some time to drive my car with it.

Unfortunately, this is all the info that I have right now, but I can say that I am very impressed with it.

Please keep us posted on the DCT tune by ActiveAutowerke.

[The Flying Scotsman]

Originally Posted by JNoSol

Please keep us posted on the DCT tune by ActiveAutowerke.

Will do!

[MineralWhiteF80]

I wish my S55 sounded like a 2JZ.... I really do like the sound of my M3 with the M performance exhaust, but I like the 2J sound wayyy more.

The 2J engine sound is intoxicating, especially with a larger turbo and a wastegate vented to atmosphere.

[Tiago@VRSF]

Originally Posted by TurboSid

I once tried to count how many of these threads were on the N54 boards.

lol

[kevin @ eas]

Originally Posted by JNoSol

MisterEm 1,000HP E30 would be a ball to drive. The S54 is aluminum block / closed deck / iron sleeved. They're very strong. HPF along with the vids you sent have made them daily driven 1,000whp. There are after market ECU available for the S54, making it very easy to upgrade compared to the S55.

Per others stated, it will be hard to touch 2Jz as so many are using the 2Jz for drag = lots of high power parts available. Vendors for BMW engineered their parts for endurance track reliability and use-able power. The market for drag BMWs are pretty slim, but I have been enjoying JB4 + Partners shattering records with stock N54 block.

Correct me if I am wrong but the S54 is going to be an iron block with a closed deck.

[Uponone76]

Originally Posted by MineralWhiteF80

I wish my S55 sounded like a 2JZ.... I really do like the sound of my M3 with the M performance exhaust, but I like the 2J sound wayyy more.

The 2J engine sound is intoxicating, especially with a larger turbo and a wastegate vented to atmosphere.

I could not agree with you more! Nothing was more intoxicating then hearing that turbo spool and the waste gate open on my Supra.

[JNoSol]

Originally Posted by kevin @ eas

Correct me if I am wrong but the S54 is going to be an iron block with a closed deck.

I stand corrected. Yes, the S54 has an iron block / closed deck.

[Reid]

Originally Posted by JNoSol

Please keep us posted on the DCT tune by ActiveAutowerke.

You can read more about it here.

[rexb16]

until we see 1,500 whp s55s, don't go telling me that anything is the next 2jz.

[Ian1973]

Not only that but we don't know how they will age, where we know even moderately modified the Toyota engine is still pretty bulletproof.

[M5Rlz]

Originally Posted by Bluesummer

Please don't over glorify the F8x.

I would agree lol my motor from hitting a deer was 36,000 worth of damage 29k of that engine alone...

I love my m4 but the engines been out for a year lets not get ahead of ourselves.

While I think BMW in general has better reliability/ internals than their JDM counterparts, I personally would feel far safer boosting my former n54, s63tu, and this s55 over my GTR motor on stock rods and pistons for various reasons, and I think the s55 has an easy 200-300whp of safe reliability built into it... Thats a far cry from being able to run 1000-1400whp+...

It will take another couple years for the N54 to probably see its limits, let alone where this motor goes.

And the S55 being an M which means an even smaller aftermarket compared to the n54 and then shrink it compared to something like the GTR [which ETS, AMS are quiet confident with billet blocks, and top mounts the car has even more left past mid 7s quarter mile]


I mean you basically have less than a handful of guys within the n54 community building their cars right, I'm talking Trans, proper fuel systems, DSS axels and Diffs.. These are things that the community as a whole will need to adopt to really push forward, but the vast consensus just wants to slap turbos on cars and post pretty dynoJets which once you get past a certain mark can lead to disaster...

SSP is kind of carrying the market for DCT work for the BMW, where as compared to the GTR where they have Jacks, Shep, Boucher, Ivey, etc. etc. all doing trans work...

Personally I'm impressed at the engineering and stock internals if the N54, S55, S63tu can make 900whp reliably, but I'll be far more impressed when they reach the break parts on the regular zone of 1200+ and are still going strong.


And judging by terry having to turn his S55 down for clutch DCT slippage we will quickly reach a point where engine internals can outlast Diff, axels, gears, clutches etc.

Originally Posted by rexb16

until we see 1,500 whp s55s, don't go telling me that anything is the next 2jz.

From what I've seen and all the "will this void my warranty" nonsense very few people across the S63tu, S55, and N54 would even try to push the cars to the limits that we could see something like this...

And very few people want to be the guinea pigs to push it this far...

personally I think the S63tu has the best chance but again? How many people who have 100k sedans are gonna turn it up enough to see when rods fail, or when pistons go... Very few.

[F85FTW]

Originally Posted by JNoSol

S55 is aluminum. However, BMW uses the new twin-wire arc spraying process to deposit molten iron onto the cylinder walls. It's iron tough w/o the iron block weight. The block itself is not the bottle neck, ECU/Fuel is.

FYI: Tuned Honda K20 4cyl aluminum block now makes over 1,100whp. The block just had to be sleeved.

You are overestimating the S55 capabilities based on guesses. The twin wire arc spray process is far from new and was invented by Daimler/AMG in there F1 development program and has been used in the 6.2L M156 V8 since 2005 http://media.daimler.com/dcmedia/0-9...0-0-0-0-0.html. It is not stronger than an iron block but is a lightweight alternative to sleeves and reduces internal friction for higher volumetric efficiency + gas mileage.

The S54 inline 6 from the E46 M3 would be my choice for an all out power build from a BMW. It has a closed deck cast iron block vs the aluminum block of the S55. Its valvetrain/heads/top end was designed for over 8000 rpm stock giving you the room to rev out a big turbo and use its full powerband with great efficiency.

The S55 is a much better motor than the 2JZ in many ways but comparing it in out right power it silly at this point with some 2JZ builds hitting close to 2000whp its no contest.

[F85FTW]

Also looks like Ford was developing the technology from as far back as 1991. Not sure who got out what first but the point is its not a new technology that gives the S55 some super power. http://jalopnik.com/5467038/the-ford...he-nissan-gt-r

[MisterEm]

Originally Posted by kevin @ eas

Correct me if I am wrong but the S54 is going to be an iron block with a closed deck.

True, but you missed the point.

The question was whether BMW every produced a stock block inline-6 capable of 2JZ power before the S55 was released in 2015.

The answer is yes. Twice.

The S38 and the S54.

[ihc95]

Whats funny is that the next Supra (based on FT-1 concept) will most likely have the S55 engine. Can't wait to see it take on the Vette and 911.

[JNoSol]

Originally Posted by ihc95

Whats funny is that the next Supra (based on FT-1 concept) will most likely have the S55 engine. Can't wait to see it take on the Vette and 911.

+1. I would buy one if Supra production model isn't far from concept, powered by an S55 engine, and priced right at $100k.

[ihc95]

Originally Posted by JNoSol

+1. I would buy one if Supra production model isn't far from concept, powered by an S55 engine, and priced right at $100k.

I don't see it being $100k. That's GTR money and the Supra is supposed to be a full notch below it performance wise. I'll say $70-80k, right in between the Vette and 911.

But I agree, if it looks close to the concept...well good lord