BPM
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Technical Topics > Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust / Bolt-ons / Tuning

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-28-2014, 09:59 AM   #133
bradleyland
TIM YOYO
United_States
1411
Rep
3,261
Posts

Drives: 2013 M3
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Vero Beach, FL

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by FogCityM3 View Post
Agree - amazing how a company like Porsche can deliver more of what enthusiasts want but still make SUVs and Sedans for the 'non enthusiast' consumers. And by the way, those 'non enthusiast vehicles' actually are the best handling/driving vehicles in their categories. All the while, Porsche has been able to have the highest profit margins of any automobile company (yes, even before they were bought out by VW). Bigger is not necessarily better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
That's what I'm talking about. Why is it so hard for people to see this??
BMW could make the best handling sedans and SAV and keep it's core enthusiast happy it it wanted to, but they'd rather just sell to the masses.
So go buy a Porsche
__________________
His: 2013 ///M3 - Interlagos Blue Black M-DCT
Hers: 2013 X3 28i - N20 Mineral Silver / Sand Beige / Premium, Tech
Past: 2010 135i - TiAg Coral Red 6MT ///M-Sport
Appreciate 0
      01-28-2014, 10:04 AM   #134
bradleyland
TIM YOYO
United_States
1411
Rep
3,261
Posts

Drives: 2013 M3
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Vero Beach, FL

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
I'm a little bit surprised that a group of (presumably) adult men are lamenting BMW marketing. As if anyone expects BMW to not talk about their most important M-car non-stop until launch.

It's one thing to lament the dilution of the M-car, and if you look at the track record from the E30 to today, it's hard to argue that anything but dilution has occurred, but it's also worth noting a couple of things:

1) The F8x M3/4 is going to be as light as the E46 M3, so we're going the right direction.

2) All of the talk about the M2 has been focused on delivering a car that is closer to the E30 than BMW has even talked about in years.

Both of these are good signs, IMO, and we wouldn't know anything about them if it weren't for the BMW "marketing engine".
__________________
His: 2013 ///M3 - Interlagos Blue Black M-DCT
Hers: 2013 X3 28i - N20 Mineral Silver / Sand Beige / Premium, Tech
Past: 2010 135i - TiAg Coral Red 6MT ///M-Sport
Appreciate 0
      01-28-2014, 11:22 AM   #135
Sedan_Clan
Law Enforcer
Sedan_Clan's Avatar
Brazil
3559
Rep
15,305
Posts

Drives: '17 Nardo Grey M4
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: On 2 wheels clipping an apex!

iTrader: (26)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post
So go buy a Porsche
My sentiments exactly!
Appreciate 0
      01-28-2014, 11:37 AM   #136
Koldun
Banned
8
Rep
657
Posts

Drives: 2011 E92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Houston, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Deal View Post
"the engine has shocking capabilities" imagine what tuners will be able to do with it.
Not much, from what the tuners are saying.

I was actually kind of annoyed by having to mod everything on the E92, it's nice for an M to have everything you need out of the box.

Steering and this new turbo spooling tech are the big questions. They won me over with DCT, I hope they can do the same again.
Appreciate 0
      01-28-2014, 11:42 AM   #137
Real Deal
Second Lieutenant
15
Rep
290
Posts

Drives: E90
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koldun View Post
Not much, from what the tuners are saying.

I was actually kind of annoyed by having to mod everything on the E92, it's nice for an M to have everything you need out of the box.

Steering and this new turbo spooling tech are the big questions. They won me over with DCT, I hope they can do the same again.
Tuners need to get their hands on it first to be able to tell... Dont get me wrong, 0 to 60 in 3.9 seconds is plenty fast for every day driving lol... but its always nice to have that extra power if needed... you know when your late picking up the ball and chain for anniversary
Appreciate 0
      01-28-2014, 11:43 AM   #138
Real Deal
Second Lieutenant
15
Rep
290
Posts

Drives: E90
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
My sentiments exactly!
I still dont get it, everyone is bashing the car and praising other manufactururers yet they find the time to come here and post.
Appreciate 1
      01-28-2014, 12:01 PM   #139
Koldun
Banned
8
Rep
657
Posts

Drives: 2011 E92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Houston, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Deal View Post
Tuners need to get their hands on it first to be able to tell... Dont get me wrong, 0 to 60 in 3.9 seconds is plenty fast for every day driving lol... but its always nice to have that extra power if needed... you know when your late picking up the ball and chain for anniversary
They have had their hands on the new M5/6 ECUs for a while to no avail.
Appreciate 0
      01-28-2014, 12:02 PM   #140
Real Deal
Second Lieutenant
15
Rep
290
Posts

Drives: E90
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koldun View Post
They have had their hands on the new M5/6 ECUs for a while to no avail.
I didnt know it was the same ECU... My N55 took two years to crack by Cobb.
Appreciate 0
      01-28-2014, 12:06 PM   #141
Sedan_Clan
Law Enforcer
Sedan_Clan's Avatar
Brazil
3559
Rep
15,305
Posts

Drives: '17 Nardo Grey M4
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: On 2 wheels clipping an apex!

iTrader: (26)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Deal View Post
I didnt know it was the same ECU... My N55 took two years to crack by Cobb.
I don't know that it is the same ECU. I think he just meant the encrypted nature of the M5/M6 ECU.
Appreciate 0
      01-28-2014, 12:10 PM   #142
Real Deal
Second Lieutenant
15
Rep
290
Posts

Drives: E90
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
I don't know that it is the same ECU. I think he just meant the encrypted nature of the M5/M6 ECU.
That makes sense, give them time
Appreciate 0
      01-28-2014, 12:30 PM   #143
Boss330
Brigadier General
Boss330's Avatar
Norway
991
Rep
4,832
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Norway, Scandinavia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koldun View Post
Not much, from what the tuners are saying.

I was actually kind of annoyed by having to mod everything on the E92, it's nice for an M to have everything you need out of the box.

Steering and this new turbo spooling tech are the big questions. They won me over with DCT, I hope they can do the same again.
I guess the DME of the S55 also will be encrypted like the S63TU DME is. That means tuners mostly will do tunes by piggybacks, which is what most tuners like AC Schnitzer, Hartge, Abt, MTM etc are doing on the current gen M5, RS6 etc.

Alpina has replaced the entire DME with their own DME on the B3, but Alpina isn't representative of BMW tuners (they aren't even considered a tuner) as they don't offer just tunes, but only complete cars.
Appreciate 0
      01-28-2014, 12:45 PM   #144
Real Deal
Second Lieutenant
15
Rep
290
Posts

Drives: E90
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
I guess the DME of the S55 also will be encrypted like the S63TU DME is. That means tuners mostly will do tunes by piggybacks, which is what most tuners like AC Schnitzer, Hartge, Abt, MTM etc are doing on the current gen M5, RS6 etc.

Alpina has replaced the entire DME with their own DME on the B3, but Alpina isn't representative of BMW tuners (they aren't even considered a tuner) as they don't offer just tunes, but only complete cars.
Piggy backs are fine, I had Jb4 for a long time but Cobb is just much easier.
Appreciate 0
      01-28-2014, 12:53 PM   #145
Sapper_M3
Captain
Sapper_M3's Avatar
United_States
46
Rep
612
Posts

Drives: 2012 E92 M3, ZCP
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Missouri

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Deal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
I guess the DME of the S55 also will be encrypted like the S63TU DME is. That means tuners mostly will do tunes by piggybacks, which is what most tuners like AC Schnitzer, Hartge, Abt, MTM etc are doing on the current gen M5, RS6 etc.

Alpina has replaced the entire DME with their own DME on the B3, but Alpina isn't representative of BMW tuners (they aren't even considered a tuner) as they don't offer just tunes, but only complete cars.
Piggy backs are fine, I had Jb4 for a long time but Cobb is just much easier.
The only major problem here is the limp modes activated by hidden code in these new DMEs (check out the M5 board here), making even the piggyback somewhat ineffective.

As others have mentioned though, the M3/M4 has a much larger tuner base (due to the much larger crowd looking to tune), and I'm cautiously optimistic the tuners will figure this out as well.
Appreciate 0
      01-28-2014, 12:55 PM   #146
Real Deal
Second Lieutenant
15
Rep
290
Posts

Drives: E90
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapper_M3 View Post
The only major problem here is the limp modes activated by hidden code in these new DMEs (check out the M5 board here), making even the piggyback somewhat ineffective.

As others have mentioned though, the M3/M4 has a much larger tuner base (due to the much larger crowd looking to tune), and I'm cautiously optimistic the tuners will figure this out as well.
Damn, BMW is making these full proof I guess. Limp modes are no fun, I went through it a few times at first when I messed up the insall
Appreciate 0
      01-28-2014, 01:21 PM   #147
Sapper_M3
Captain
Sapper_M3's Avatar
United_States
46
Rep
612
Posts

Drives: 2012 E92 M3, ZCP
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Missouri

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Deal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapper_M3 View Post
The only major problem here is the limp modes activated by hidden code in these new DMEs (check out the M5 board here), making even the piggyback somewhat ineffective.

As others have mentioned though, the M3/M4 has a much larger tuner base (due to the much larger crowd looking to tune), and I'm cautiously optimistic the tuners will figure this out as well.
Damn, BMW is making these full proof I guess. Limp modes are no fun, I went through it a few times at first when I messed up the insall
Yeah, it's certainly annoying.

I will caveat this though by saying that I'm certainly no expert. My information on these "hidden" lines of code intended to cause limp modes by BMW is based purely on discussion on these boards. So definitely take anything technical I've said with a grain of salt. With that said, it is true that piggyback tuned M5s and M6s are seeing consistent limp mode activation when doing drag race/roll race events. So BMW has definitely continued to up their game when it comes to protecting their software.

I'm betting the new M3/M4 will be plenty of fun out of the box though (especially if they end up being significantly underrated), and the money draw of M3/M4 tuning will hopefully get us a crack in a reasonable amount of time.
Appreciate 0
      01-28-2014, 01:45 PM   #148
Black Gold
Major General
538
Rep
5,422
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Texas

iTrader: (15)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Deal View Post
Damn, BMW is making these full proof I guess. Limp modes are no fun, I went through it a few times at first when I messed up the insall
always the same story

1) omg no one can crack these ecus!
2) piggybacks develop with the associated growing pains
3) piggybacks get refined
4) flash tunes come out and people argue flash vs piggyback
5) flash gets refined, no one cares about piggybacks anymore

im not worried about tunes on this car.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      01-28-2014, 01:56 PM   #149
Real Deal
Second Lieutenant
15
Rep
290
Posts

Drives: E90
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
always the same story

1) omg no one can crack these ecus!
2) piggybacks develop with the associated growing pains
3) piggybacks get refined
4) flash tunes come out and people argue flash vs piggyback
5) flash gets refined, no one cares about piggybacks anymore

im not worried about tunes on this car.
That is the story of my life
Appreciate 0
      01-28-2014, 02:04 PM   #150
bmwluvr24
Driving Mika all over California.....
bmwluvr24's Avatar
United_States
55
Rep
619
Posts

Drives: 2008 E60 M5
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: San Diego, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Deal View Post
I still dont get it, everyone is bashing the car and praising other manufactururers yet they find the time to come here and post.
There is an Aerosmith song that fits the occasion. I think the hook is something like this: "same old song and, same old song and dance.....my friend." Nothing changes. I am all for the sharing of information, but the members who come to the forum of a car that has not been released yet and tell us that this car is not as good as brand x, is annoying as hell. I am not on any other forum talking about the cars that they love and how I would rather have the new M3. What the fuck is the point and how the hell do you know anything other than the spec sheet? Also, I would love to see how successful any car manufacturer is without marketing. I, for one, love the comments that are coming out, but I don't go beating my dick to them.
__________________
2008 E60 M5 Sepang Bronze Metallic, gloss black grills and gills, LED side markers, 12mm spacers all around, stud conversion kit, custom exhaust with Magnaflow mufflers and x-pipe.
Appreciate 0
      01-28-2014, 02:24 PM   #151
Real Deal
Second Lieutenant
15
Rep
290
Posts

Drives: E90
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by phishhead24 View Post
There is an Aerosmith song that fits the occasion. I think the hook is something like this: "same old song and, same old song and dance.....my friend." Nothing changes. I am all for the sharing of information, but the members who come to the forum of a car that has not been released yet and tell us that this car is not as good as brand x, is annoying as hell. I am not on any other forum talking about the cars that they love and how I would rather have the new M3. What the fuck is the point and how the hell do you know anything other than the spec sheet? Also, I would love to see how successful any car manufacturer is without marketing. I, for one, love the comments that are coming out, but I don't go beating my dick to them.
+ 1000
Appreciate 0
      01-28-2014, 02:57 PM   #152
M3 Adjuster
Lieutenant General
M3 Adjuster's Avatar
Albania
8126
Rep
11,775
Posts

Drives: 1M, X1 M Sport, E46 325ic
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dallas, Tx

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post
I'm a little bit surprised that a group of (presumably) adult men are lamenting BMW marketing. As if anyone expects BMW to not talk about their most important M-car non-stop until launch.

It's one thing to lament the dilution of the M-car, and if you look at the track record from the E30 to today, it's hard to argue that anything but dilution has occurred, but it's also worth noting a couple of things:

1) The F8x M3/4 is going to be as light as the E46 M3, so we're going the right direction.

2) All of the talk about the M2 has been focused on delivering a car that is closer to the E30 than BMW has even talked about in years.

Both of these are good signs, IMO, and we wouldn't know anything about them if it weren't for the BMW "marketing engine".

So true. Speaking of marketing engine.. as far as I am concerned.. this ENTIRE site is a BMW marketing engine. " Spy shots".... private interviews with M personnel... Moderators that know an inordinate amont of details about upcoming products... moderators that reach out to indivuduals that attend private events to have them do writeups ( i should know.. I was one).. etc.. oh... and did I mention the " spy shots" from 5 feet away....

Anyone tired of marketing should just stop checking this site, period.
__________________
ALWAYS BET ON BLACK!
Lone Star BMW CCA Chapter Ex-president (retired 2017) , Chief Driving Instructor - LIFETIME Member # 119366
If you don't STAND for something.. you'll FALL for anything
Past: 1991 BMW E30 M3 street car ; 1988 BMW E30 M3 track car -
Appreciate 0
      01-28-2014, 02:59 PM   #153
Black Gold
Major General
538
Rep
5,422
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Texas

iTrader: (15)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
So true. Speaking of marketing engine.. as far as I am concerned.. this ENTIRE site is a BMW marketing engine. " Spy shots".... private interviews with M personell... Moderators that know an inordinate amont of details... and that reach out to indivuduals that attend private events to have them do writeups ( i should know.. I was one).. etc..

Anyone tired of marketing should just stop checking this site, period.
I agree. It is a marketing site that is run by people that work for / tied to BMW.

I also was asked for pics from the Houston auto show. Which I provided, because I wanted to share them with my fellow BMW enthusiasts.

That said, I appreciate the fast flow of info here.
Appreciate 0
      01-28-2014, 03:06 PM   #154
M3 Adjuster
Lieutenant General
M3 Adjuster's Avatar
Albania
8126
Rep
11,775
Posts

Drives: 1M, X1 M Sport, E46 325ic
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dallas, Tx

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
That's what I'm talking about. Why is it so hard for people to see this??
BMW could make the best handling sedans and SAV and keep it's core enthusiast happy it it wanted to, but they'd rather just sell to the masses.

.

interesting... pretty sure I am a core enthusiast... and pretty sure I am happy... And as far as I am concerned.. BMW *does* make the best handling sedans and SAV.... and cars like the 1M... the new M3 and M4 and the upcoming M2 will absolutely keep enthusiasts happy.

it's time to for BMW fans to recognize... the company is making all types of cars.... including crazy niche cars like the 1M... i8.... i3... XXX GT... XXX Gran Coupe... XXX SAV... etx.
__________________
ALWAYS BET ON BLACK!
Lone Star BMW CCA Chapter Ex-president (retired 2017) , Chief Driving Instructor - LIFETIME Member # 119366
If you don't STAND for something.. you'll FALL for anything
Past: 1991 BMW E30 M3 street car ; 1988 BMW E30 M3 track car -
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
2014 bmw m3, 2014 bmw m3 horsepower, 2014 bmw m3 specs, 2014 bmw m4 horsepower, 2014 bmw m4 specs, 2014 m3, 2014 m3 engine, 2014 m3 forum, 2014 m3 horsepower, 2014 m3 hp, 2014 m3 specs, 2014 m3 weight, 2014 m4 engine, 2014 m4 horsepower, 2014 m4 hp, 2014 m4 specs, 2014 m4 weight, 2015 bmw m3, 2015 bmw m3 specs, 2015 bmw m4, 2015 bmw m4 specs, 2015 m3, 2015 m3 engine, 2015 m3 specs, 2015 m4, 2015 m4 engine, 2015 m4 hp, 2015 m4 specs, 2015 m4 weight, bmw f80, bmw f80 forum, bmw f80 forums, bmw f80 m3, bmw f80 m3 s55, bmw f80 m3 sedan, bmw f82, bmw f82 forum, bmw f82 forums, bmw f82 m3 coupe, bmw f82 m4, bmw f82 m4 coupe, bmw f82 m4 s55, bmw f82 m4 video, bmw f83, bmw f83 m3, bmw f83 m4, bmw m forum, bmw m forums, bmw m3 forum, bmw m3 forums, bmw m3 s55, bmw m3 s55 engine, bmw m4, bmw m4 coupe, bmw m4 coupe forum, bmw m4 forum, bmw m4 weight, bmw s55, bmw s55 engine, f80 m3, f82 m4, m3 s55, m3 s55 engine, m4 s55, m4 s55 engine

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:36 PM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST