Just Carbon Ceramic Brakes

[Stevens21234]

^are you going to actually track drive it? because if you're getting CCBs for daily commuting and also for the look, that'd be a waste

[Tonymiabmw]

Originally Posted by Stevens21234

^are you going to actually track drive it? because if you're getting CCBs for daily commuting and also for the look, that'd be a waste

Yes I'll be hitting up Sebring,PBIR and Homestead

[aus]

No 18" wheels with 400mm rotors.

.

[Tonymiabmw]

Originally Posted by aus

No 18" wheels with 400mm rotors.

.

Oh well

[CSanto]

Every time you see one with CCBs you will kick yourself for not getting them.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by aus

No 18" wheels with 400mm rotors.

.

do we know that

-all 18s wont clear the brakes
-the clearance issue is due to rotor size and not calipers?

serious question...?

Originally Posted by CSanto

Every time you see one with CCBs you will kick yourself for not getting them.

or laughing all the way to the bank.....like me, for example

IMO there is little to no logical justification for CCB, but that's my opinion, and that's also why they are not on my build.

the standard steel brakes with race pads will be all that I need, or anyone on this forum needs since im pretty sure randy pobst doesn't post here.

to each their own, and that goes for those buying them and those not buying them

[Alpine F31]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

the standard steel brakes with race pads will be all that I need, or anyone on this forum needs

The "all I need" argument is so WEAK. By your same logic, no one NEEDS an M4 or M3! I'm sure a 320i would work fine for you 99% of the time right???

But that's not the point. The point is you WANT an M4 or M3. There is no logical reason for this as plenty of less expensive cars would work in place of an M. It's the same for the carbon brakes. Of course no one NEEDS them as the stock brakes are more than adequate. The carbon brakes are something you WANT, not need. You want them because they are SICK (oh, and light and stop well blah blah blah). No one NEEDS any of this shit! But lots of people want it, including YOU, otherwise you'd be on the Toyota Corolla forums.

[stressdoc]

Originally Posted by Alpine F31

The "all I need" argument is so WEAK. By your same logic, no one NEEDS an M4 or M3! I'm sure a 320i would work fine for you 99% of the time right???

But that's not the point. The point is you WANT an M4 or M3. There is no logical reason for this as plenty of less expensive cars would work in place of an M. It's the same for the carbon brakes. Of course no one NEEDS them as the stock brakes are more than adequate. The carbon brakes are something you WANT, not need. You want them because they are SICK (oh, and light and stop well blah blah blah). No one NEEDS any of this shit! But lots of people want it, including YOU, otherwise you'd be on the Toyota Corolla forums.

Guilty as charged. I want. With BBS FI. Reduction in unsprung weight per wheel > 5 Kg.
Insanity. I could buy a used 335 for the same price, or give my sons my old 335 instead of trading it in... Alas, I will do without.

[Tonymiabmw]

Idk M brakes look weak to me. If I can get a BBK kit installed from factory I'm not gonna skip it.

[Reid]

Originally Posted by Stevens21234

^are you going to actually track drive it? because if you're getting M3/M4 for daily commuting and also for the look, that'd be a waste

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by Alpine F31

The "all I need" argument is so WEAK. By your same logic, no one NEEDS an M4 or M3! I'm sure a 320i would work fine for you 99% of the time right???

But that's not the point. The point is you WANT an M4 or M3. There is no logical reason for this as plenty of less expensive cars would work in place of an M. It's the same for the carbon brakes. Of course no one NEEDS them as the stock brakes are more than adequate. The carbon brakes are something you WANT, not need. You want them because they are SICK (oh, and light and stop well blah blah blah). No one NEEDS any of this shit! But lots of people want it, including YOU, otherwise you'd be on the Toyota Corolla forums.

no its not weak at all. have you ever tracked an e9x m3 on race pads with track fluid? trashed the pads in one DE day? were so quick that the race pads were inadequate for a 20 minute DE session?

the answer is almost certainly no. so no, they are not NEEDED for performance, which is the argument many people here make. sure, if you like them for bling, think the tech is cool, wanna brag to your friends, go for it as its your choice. but it is a very insignificant and irrelevant performance gain on the street or the track, and that's really not debatable.

there really is no point to getting into a philosophical argument about who needs what, or what is the true purpose of a car etc...

everyone sees value / lack of value in everything. when you choose to get an m3 you also get to choose the options. I look at them with a critical eye to ensure that I am getting the very most for my money, and at 8xxx thousand dollars for brakes which provide all of zero real world benefit to me on street or track, I cannot see value. maybe you can, and that's your choice to make. but they are not a significant performance upgrade, and that is not debatable. and they are not necessary on street or track for even the most experienced driver.

EDIT : and what you call "sick", I call silly and a monumental waste of money. We all have our opinions.

[Tonymiabmw]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

no its not weak at all. have you ever tracked an e9x m3 on race pads with track fluid? trashed the pads in one DE day? were so quick that the race pads were inadequate for a 20 minute DE session?

the answer is almost certainly no. so no, they are not NEEDED for performance, which is the argument many people here make. sure, if you like them for bling, think the tech is cool, wanna brag to your friends, go for it as its your choice. but it is a very insignificant and irrelevant performance gain on the street or the track, and that's really not debatable.

there really is no point to getting into a philosophical argument about who needs what, or what is the true purpose of a car etc...

everyone sees value / lack of value in everything. when you choose to get an m3 you also get to choose the options. I look at them with a critical eye to ensure that I am getting the very most for my money, and at 8xxx thousand dollars for brakes which provide all of zero real world benefit to me on street or track, I cannot see value. maybe you can, and that's your choice to make. but they are not a significant performance upgrade, and that is not debatable. and they are not necessary on street or track for even the most experienced driver.

EDIT : and what you call "sick", I call silly and a monumental waste of money. We all have our opinions.

People spend way more than 8k for brakes bolting carbon bits and wheels to their cars. I'm sure the M brakes aren't bad but the CCB will be better. 6 vs 4 piston.

[attila]

I don't want to convince anyone on the CCB vs steel debate. Let me put it this way. There is no way I would by any porsche with PCCB that I intend to track. No pads for track the rotor last about 2 times as long as good steel (then you see the wear markings) but the price is 4-5 times as high. You have to be very careful during wheel changes not to chip the rotors. I use 18" on the GT3RS over the PCCB and the fitment is very tight.
To me - I am not a professional by any means - the only theoretical advantage of the CCB is the potentially improved handling and ride due to somewhat less rotational mass. I could not feel that on the GT3 however. All that is lost on the track to me due to the less than perfect and changing tire pressures, acquired imbalance of the wheels etc. If you are a professional racer you may able to feel some differences though. If you want real CCB go with the MoVit brakes. They are full thickness CCB instead of a carbon matrix and hardened surface like the porsche stuff (or GM or Ferrari)

[Alpine F31]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

EDIT : and what you call "sick", I call silly and a monumental waste of money. We all have our opinions.

Chill Kenny. It was tongue in cheek. I fully understand your position. Now, pass me a beer.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by Alpine F31

Chill Kenny. It was tongue in cheek. I fully understand your position. Now, pass me a beer.

Cheers

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by Tonymiabmw

People spend way more than 8k for brakes bolting carbon bits and wheels to their cars. I'm sure the M brakes aren't bad but the CCB will be better. 6 vs 4 piston.

For sure. People spend a lot of money on a lot of things, personal choices.

I do not beleice the performance difference is noticeable or needed at all over steel on the street, and steel plus race pads on the track.

If I wanted better braking performance id go with an aftermarket stop tech kit and race pads for 2/3 the cost of ccb.

Jmo

[Tonymiabmw]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

For sure. People spend a lot of money on a lot of things, personal choices.

I do not beleice the performance difference is noticeable or needed at all over steel on the street, and steel plus race pads on the track.

If I wanted better braking performance id go with an aftermarket stop tech kit and race pads for 2/3 the cost of ccb.

Jmo

A non ceramic comparable BBK 6/4 with install will cost 8.5k+

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by Tonymiabmw

A non ceramic comparable BBK 6/4 with install will cost 8.5k+

doubtful

stoptech kits are around 4000-4500 from vendors for the e9x m3. installation does not cost 4000 dollars. pads and rotor replacements are also much cheaper than ceramic.

again, steel brakes with good race pads should be extremely capable on track for this car. I will not replace the brakes.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by attila

To me - I am not a professional by any means - the only theoretical advantage of the CCB is the potentially improved handling and ride due to somewhat less rotational mass. I could not feel that on the GT3 however.

I guess you meant unsprung weight .

I am just being anal on the semantics due to the multiple debates here .

[attila]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I guess you meant unsprung weight .

I am just being anal on the semantics due to the multiple debates here .

Well in a way I meant both. With increasing angular momentum (rpm, weight) increasing force is needed to change the direction of the axle of the rotating mass. (my English is not great when it comes to physic sorry)
What that means to me that at the same rpm of the wheel the heavier rotating component (rotor, wheels etc) needs more force to steer. This affects the steering of the car, makes it less acute and precise.
The increasing unsprung mass affects the handling from a different direction (also negatively)

Anyway, CCB is a pain in the neck when it comes to tracking your car.

[VCP]

Originally Posted by pb12

Me too, can't wait. I love them on my GT3, including using them on track. One of the main benefits that isn't discussed often is just how much better the steering feel is. I've driven GT3's with and without PCCBs back to back, and the difference is pretty stark.

Loving that I can buy ceramics on the M3, it's one of the reasons I ordered the car, that's how sold on them I am.

M

[attila]

Originally Posted by pb12

Me too, can't wait. I love them on my GT3, including using them on track. One of the main benefits that isn't discussed often is just how much better the steering feel is. I've driven GT3's with and without PCCBs back to back, and the difference is pretty stark.

Loving that I can buy ceramics on the M3, it's one of the reasons I ordered the car, that's how sold on them I am.

M

I have to respectfully question your observation. I also did drive my own GT3RS (with PCCB) and my friend car who already get rid of them back to back. With all honesty I could not detect ANY difference in steering or handling. There is some theoretical advantage of PCCB in this regard but I could not detect any. I have to say that his PFC rotors with PFC I believe 01 compound were better than the PCCB with the standard green pagids.
So in my opinion - for GT3RS- the steels are better brakes. Not just cheaper but really better than PCCB. This is due to pad selection.