New Single Turbo Kit for the S55 (4N Motorsport)

[x622]

Originally Posted by UnleashedF80

my car made 750whp on dyno jet with this kit, full e85 and methanol injection

What turbo exactly (turbine housing, compressor housing and turbo center section) Did you run out of fuel or is it because you were going to grenade your block?

[chetrickerman]

Originally Posted by x622

What turbo exactly (turbine housing, compressor housing and turbo center section) Did you run out of fuel or is it because you were going to grenade your block?

Its a GTW6765. We stopped at that level because he didnt want to push his stock block too far. The turbo still had a lot left in it.

[x622]

Originally Posted by chetrickerman

Its a GTW6765. We stopped at that level because he didnt want to push his stock block too far. The turbo still had a lot left in it.

Shot of the dyno graph? Any data logs?

[chetrickerman]

Originally Posted by x622

Shot of the dyno graph? Any data logs?

.

[luchocamp]

any times 1/4 mile or 60 to 130mph ?
single kit looks is working good, little laggy for me.
twin turbos upgrade easier to achieve similar results.

[x622]

Originally Posted by chetrickerman

.

I'm guessing this is on a stock block?

[chetrickerman]

Originally Posted by x622

I'm guessing this is on a stock block?

Correct

[Machtavian]

Originally Posted by chetrickerman

.

That torque curve looks like it's falling off a cliff. I'm surprised because most single turbo setups hold torque a lot longer. There must be a bottleneck somewhere.

[x622]

Originally Posted by Machtavian

That torque curve looks like it's falling off a cliff. I'm surprised because most single turbo setups hold torque a lot longer. There must be a bottleneck somewhere.

It's probably the turbo they chose. For some reason they went with the GTW6765 instead of an EFR 9280 or smaller G series. It could be they just went with a tiny .70 or .84 AR turbine housing, but the boost threshold doesn't seem to support that as it looks pretty late. According to Cary Jordan, the factory head flows pretty well so I doubt it's there. I don't know what the factory AWIC core will flow before you start seeing nasty pressure drops but that might be a factor.


I'm leaning more now towards a pair of 7163s if I even do build my F80 m3 any more than it is or I might just go to a different platform or just wait for the new AWD M3

[MisterF80M3]

Originally Posted by luchocamp

any times 1/4 mile or 60 to 130mph ?
single kit looks is working good, little laggy for me.
twin turbos upgrade easier to achieve similar results.

I know someone in real life was running low 10's.

He is still getting his Ecutek tune dialed in and recently purchased XHP transmission tune.

He is pretty confident he could get into the 9's.

[4N Motorsport]

Originally Posted by MisterF80M3

I know someone in real life was running low 10's.

He is still getting his Ecutek tune dialed in and recently purchased XHP transmission tune.

He is pretty confident he could get into the 9's.

Hey guys here is the most recent dyno chart. We made 786whp and 752wtq total on the stock block. We will be going back next week for more testing. This is with the GTX3584rs turbo. Torque is incredible and is starting at 600ftlbs at 3,800! We are no longer selling with the GTW series turbo. We may make a modification to add a v band and mount a G-35 series turbo in the future.

[x622]

What's the latency to full boost from 4000rpm to WOT?

[Machtavian]

Have you thought about using a Sound performance quick spool valve to spool the turbo? I had on on my Supra and it was unbelievable the difference it made to spool the turbo.

[x622]

Originally Posted by Machtavian

Have you thought about using a Sound performance quick spool valve to spool the turbo? I had on on my Supra and it was unbelievable the difference it made to spool the turbo.

Complete and utter garbage. I tested these extensively on a S2000 with an EFR 9174, 6870 Gen2, and a GTX4202R. It helps on a big open T4, sure, but it's not as good as a properly designed twinscroll, or even just a proper flowing vband inlet with a clean merge collector.

Source: I tested these back to back to back on a similar manifold design with a non-dogshit merge collector. I still have all my old motec datalogs too.


I'm curious to test this kit out, is there a price for just the manifold and downpipe? I'd be testing an EFR 9280. It's either that or a pair of 7163s.

[Machtavian]

Originally Posted by x622

Complete and utter garbage. I tested these extensively on a S2000 with an EFR 9174, 6870 Gen2, and a GTX4202R. It helps on a big open T4, sure, but it's not as good as a properly designed twinscroll, or even just a proper flowing vband inlet with a clean merge collector.

Source: I tested these back to back to back on a similar manifold design with a non-dogshit merge collector. I still have all my old motec datalogs too.


I'm curious to test this kit out, is there a price for just the manifold and downpipe? I'd be testing an EFR 9280. It's either that or a pair of 7163s.

It worked on my T4 Supra really well. I figured it would be the same on a T-4 manifold for the S55.

[x622]

Originally Posted by Machtavian

It worked on my T4 Supra really well. I figured it would be the same on a T-4 manifold for the S55.

Based on my testing here's what I found
T4 divided manifold was the best for reducing the boost threshold and time to torque, factor in that a 1.00 ar is different than a 1.00 ar t4 open in terms of volute volume. Backpressure on this was slightly higher than a Vband inlet configuration. ECU was Motec, sensors were all motec or AEM. Platform was a F22c1

T6/T3 Vband was the next best with a proper merge collector design because of its smooth transitions and again, total volute volume. Backpressure was excellent with this configuration.

T4 open was the next worse with worse threshold than a Vband inlet due to literally a rectangular surface being transitioned into a decreasing radius circle. Exhaust gas back pressure was excellent in relation to turbine sizing, typically you can go slightly smaller on a t4 open than you would on a t4 divided manifold


T4 with a QSV was by far the worst of all worlds. Same turbo with a regular T4 housing on back to back tests made 10% less power beyond the boost threshold (read: full wheel speed/boost on the turbo) and had dramatically higher backpressure across the board, especially at high flowrates likely due to the QSV just choking it down. The sound performance valve is nothing like the turbine housings with an integrated QSV with a smooth transition into whatever volute it's flowing to - it's a literal brick wall and the flow reversion and wastegate issues show that. Speaking of wastegate issues, it was much harder to gate on both Tial and Turbosmart gates on a 4 port mac valve, and the decrease in boost threshold RPM was purely because the QSV was choking flow.

I did not do FEA on the manifold with the QSV (But did on the t4 ts and vband inlet), but I'm guessing nobody who's actually ran these did their due diligence in datalogging and testing stuff.

If you're interested in learning the science in choosing a turbo and why some just seem to work better than others even though their "peak hp" looks better I highly recommend reading about the relationship of backpressure to torque, what time to torque is, and the volumetric differences and flow differences between each manifold. There's a couple good engineering books on this you can find online, I don't recommend some bullshit shops' friendly marketing watered down blog post.

I'm really interested in this kit because a properly sized turbo (read efr 9280) should make a thousand wheel and absolutely blow the doors off laggy garbage kits like Kratos all while making less "peak" hp. The garrett g series is also on my watch list.

[zehix]

Does 4n motorsport have a contact number? I live in the uk and need one of these kitssss

[ghost.f82]

Originally Posted by zehix

Does 4n motorsport have a contact number? I live in the uk and need one of these kitssss

It won’t fit because of the steering rack.

I’m trying to work out if their Twin kit will fit

[zehix]

Hello,

its a great shame it wont fit..

[zehix]

Originally Posted by ghost.f82

It won’t fit because of the steering rack.

I’m trying to work out if their Twin kit will fit

yes im after the twin kit. any closer to finding out? if i cant get this then sending the car to Enhance Performance in Lincoln they will build me a kit. with the same G25-660 turbos.

[wheela]

Originally Posted by x622

Yes, I do not like 304L and it always cracks over time if it's coated, and you wanted coated so it doesn't heat up your entire bay like an oven. 321 or inconel 725 are the only ways to go. Typically if you do a better material you can spec sch 10 and have some support for the turbo and have better high end flow at the expense of a bit of velocity at the lower end.

Regarding 304 cracking if coated, is this just due to extra heat retention in the metal? Is header wrap over 304 manifold (instead of ceramic coating) also problematic?

In general, what are peoples' thoughts on potential for cracking with bare 304 welded tubular manifold, schedule 40 pipe, with 6 runners for bmw inline sixes? Is that enough material to reduce loading below the point where cracks will grow? (Obviously it depends on a lot, just wondering in general)?