02-27-2020, 11:05 AM | #133 | |
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$$$ car you don’t feel comfortable writing off and big power without any safety gear other than stock 3pt and a helmet are super valid reasons to respect your individual “comfort wall” |
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02-27-2020, 02:20 PM | #134 |
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02-29-2020, 05:19 PM | #135 |
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I started in novice groups about 2 yrs ago and now run intermediate groups, mostly PCA events. If I were to start over, this would be the sequence:
Novice Group (bare minimum): - PPF wrap whole front end - Protect radiators with screen (see this post) - Ferodo DS2500 pads Intermediate Group: - Ferodo DS1.11 pads (or equal track pad) + Castrol SRF fluid - Front brake cooling ducts (see this post) - MPHAS or similar - Camber plates - Track Wheels/Tires - Wheel studs & lug nuts Last edited by Rollrate; 02-29-2020 at 05:25 PM.. |
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02-29-2020, 07:52 PM | #136 | |
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My suggested upgrade order:
I've used this setup for almost 4 years. My wife's 2018 M3 has the same setup, except for the camber plates and HAS. I've been tracking various cars for over 20 years, and I've run at all of the SoCal tracks, and Laguna Seca, as well as Nurburgring Nordschleife, Circuit Park Zandvoort, and Spa Francorchamps in Europe. I did 8 track days last year. I've run in the A/Advanced/Solo group for a long time with BMW CCA and Advanced/D Group with Audi Club. There are definite reasons why I recommend doing your upgrades in this order. Are you doing Buttonwillow next weekend with the BMW CCA? My wife and I will both be there.
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02-29-2020, 07:58 PM | #137 | |
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Tho I never heard of the radiator issue before; what might benefit from wheel stud conversion, except for easier track wheel/brake pads swap? |
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02-29-2020, 10:15 PM | #138 | ||
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I won't be at Buttonwillow next weekend, but I will be at Streets Of Willow friday!
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03-01-2020, 09:55 AM | #139 | |
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1) The studs reduce swap time & effort by about 50%. It's a PIA to line up the holes and put a wrench on those bolts 4-8 times per event depending on weather (note: I run NT01 in the dry, street PS4S wet). 2) In a season with 6 events, the bolts will cycle in and out of the hub roughly 36 times = wear & tear on hub and hope you don't cross thread with that brand new electric impact wrench. 3) Numerous reports in other threads of lug bolts failing during track use with recommendations to replace bolts annually. The failures appear to correlate with track wheel/tire setups (higher forces). There are no reports of studs failing that I can find. Why? My guess is repeated torque cycling (especially with use of an impact wrench) on a lug bolt puts severe instantaneous torque stress concentrated on the bolt shank causing cracks to form and propogate to fatigue failure. Whereas, there is much less (almost zero) torque on a stud during loosening/tightening of the nut, so I suppose no need to replace. Last edited by Rollrate; 03-01-2020 at 04:52 PM.. |
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03-01-2020, 04:21 PM | #140 | |
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See the FAQ section towards end: https://www.apexraceparts.com/media/...structions.pdf |
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03-02-2020, 07:40 AM | #141 | ||
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Not sure I've ever seen a failed bolt at a track event, but I have seen a handful of studs break and lead to missed sessions on track. Unless I had a dedicated track car I wouldn't bother with using them. Keep it simple. Quote:
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03-02-2020, 09:44 AM | #142 |
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For the lugs vs studs issue, I bought a set of guide pins. Install a guide pin, mount the wheel with the guide pin, install a few lug bolts, remove the guide pin and complete tire install. I didn't fancy balancing a 20lb wheel/tire without dropping it on a CCB rotor during removal/install. If this was a car where tire-changing had to be fast, I'd install studs in a heartbeat.
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03-02-2020, 10:54 AM | #143 | |
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03-02-2020, 11:41 AM | #144 |
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Does anyone know how long F8x front bearings actually last? I'm used to my NA6 Miata's replacement interval of starting each enduro weekend on a fresh set of front hubs, and rebuilding the rears each winter. I'm guessing the F8x bearings are pretty beefy based on the lack of conversation around replacement intervals.
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03-02-2020, 03:35 PM | #145 | |
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I recall seeing Jacob's thread about replacing his hubs after a season or 2 of tracking on Pirelli slicks but people using RE71R or NT01 tires seem all good, so maybe it's just a consideration for slicks users, and just a "check it" item for others who aren't using as aggressive at tire. I certainly didn't give hubs any thought in 2 seasons of HPDE on RE11 in my F80 |
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03-02-2020, 04:48 PM | #146 |
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The wheel lugs on the F8X are definitely a wear item that I would recommend replacing after every 30-40 days. I sheared two lugs on my 2015 M4 until I decided to replace them regularly. Looking at the fracture point, they were clearly cycled out. IMO, this is a result of thermal expansion. Studs suffer the same fate and require just as frequent replacement. I’ve seen many of my track buddies with studs that experienced stud failures.
As for installing wheels with the standard lugs, it is a non-issue for me. I never struggled to line up the bolt holes, even when using spacers.
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03-09-2020, 10:25 AM | #147 |
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I had my first ever track day this past weekend at Carolina Motorsports Park 2.2 mile road course. I ran 10 laps in two sessions. The first a 4 lap and the second a 6 lap. I have a bone stock 2017 manual F80 comp. I had an absolute blast and I think I am now an addict as I can't wait for my next time out. A couple questions for the group.
1) toward the end of each session I was experiencing a spongy brake pedal. I assume it was due to overheated fluid since I did have brakes but the pedal travel was longer and softer. My car has only 23k miles and fluid was flushed 3k miles ago per the dealer. Should I change to a high temp fluid like castroil? 2) I do think I should change brake pads. I looked at Akebono as a hybrid track/street pad but got a bit of sticker shock. From reading this post and others Ferodo seems to be the pad of choice. Is this a good street and track pad? 3) Tire pressure: my cold tire pressure was 33. On the track after a few laps with heated tires my pressures went up to 38-40 pounds. That seem very high to me. Should I be starting with a lower cold tire temp? Last edited by jkronq; 03-09-2020 at 11:24 AM.. |
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03-09-2020, 02:25 PM | #148 | |
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36-41PSI hot is right based on my experience, but others here may prefer to run less. Make sure to check with an actual tire gauge if possible. |
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03-09-2020, 02:36 PM | #149 | |
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2.) A hard NO on Akebonos for tracking. Akebono Euros are GREAT low-dust street pads, but they won't hold up on the track. If Akebonos gave you sticker shock, the price of good track pads will make you pass out ;-). Being that you're just starting out, something like Stoptech Sports or Ferodo DS2500s should suffice for street/track pads. Granted this is a generalization, but it's unlikely your speeds as a beginner will warrant full on track pads, especially if you're going to stick to street tires for now. 3.) No one size fits all answer regarding pressures. Keep an eye on wear patterns. Overinflated tires will get slick because they balloon and can't maintain the maximum contact patch. Too little pressure will make it feel squirmy and accelerate shoulder wear. 38 PSI hot pressures is probably somewhere in the ballpark, so probably a safe target for now. Note that CMP is notorious for eating tires, so take that into account. Once they repave this summer, it should be much better. Other area tracks like VIR are WAY nicer. Welcome to the hobby
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03-09-2020, 03:18 PM | #150 | |
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I think you've received some good answers. My one recommendation would be picking up a tread-depth tool. Stock car without camber plates, monitor your tire wear across the tire. As you get more confident, you will corner harder, and the stock camber will start to eat your front outside shoulders. You can chalk the shoulder of the tire to see how badly the shoulder is rolling and wearing between sessions. Higher pressures will help stabilize the shoulder, but negatively impact grip due to the ballooning as another person mentioned. Camber plates will dramatically help on achieving a better wear pattern, but that's another expense to buy/install/align them. Definitely worth it if you're considering several weekends/year, might not be necessary if you are only thinking of 1-2 weekends/year. |
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03-09-2020, 04:40 PM | #151 |
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Stock pads yes. As mentioned my car is bone stock. I don't see where pad's would cause a spongy pedal thought. It had longer travel telling me it would be i boiled my fluid. I will change pads regardless. thank you
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03-09-2020, 04:45 PM | #152 | |
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I spent about an hour talking to the new track owner Mike Sullivan at the track this weekend. He is looking at June/july for the new pavement. They have two quotes and waiting on one more. He seems like a great guy and has some interesting plans for the track. Should be fun. |
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03-09-2020, 04:51 PM | #153 | |
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03-09-2020, 06:13 PM | #154 | |
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1) I don't know much about that particular track but it shouldn't be getting spongy after just one 4-6 lap session. Is DSC on? M Dynamic? These will tend to heat up the brakes if you are constantly breaking traction as they will be constantly being used to correct your trajectory. As a beginner, for me, the DSC light was definitely blinking more than it should have been! Maybe use that blinking light as a guide that you are asking the car/tires to do too much at that particular moment. Eventually you will want to turn DSC completely off at some point and you will find your lap times decrease if you knew how to dance on the limits of your car. Be safe, don't be afraid to dial it down and get your lines and technique down. Don't be pressured into breaking lap times. 2) I've never heard of Akebono. Pagid, PFC, Ferodo, are popular. I've heard really good things about Endless being an excellent street/track pad. 3) It depends on the tires, but with stock MPSS I like to stay below 38 hot. Are you using a gauge or the iDrive? Use a quality gauge. IDrive is okay, but should only be used as a quick reference.
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