Stand Alone ECU

[DiscoWagon]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

In for a motec system exhaust

I guess I'm the only one that got that!

[Mit_Boost]

There's a better chance that Syvecs will offer plug-n-play support for the F8x M3/M4 before Motec. In the past couple of years, Syvecs has added: BMW E9x M3 and N54 (DI), Porsche 997.2 Turbo and 991.1./991.2 Turbo (DI), and Audi TTRS/RS3 (DI).

Meanwhile, Motec has really only added the Huracan and R8 (Gen 2) support because of Underground Racing and it's relationship with John Reed Racing.

It also doesn't hurt that Syvecs will be easier on the wallet and has demonstrated that it has better CAN integration with several European platforms.

[_Nathan_]

I wouldn’t run my lawnmower on Syvecs (and if I did it wouldn’t run well)

[Abacus38]

Originally Posted by ///M1990

I love Motec but let's be realistic here, this is not Honda or Nissan that use standard ECU, BMW use very intelligent ECU for their cars and its one of the things I like about my F80, as much as I love Motec I don't see myself replacing the ECU to any other brand.

There's nothing special about the BMW ecu compare to other DI ecus. Vit has the motec setup running on the new DI Civic type r with full canbus intergration and etc.

[420Coupe]

Originally Posted by Mit_Boost

There's a better chance that Syvecs will offer plug-n-play support for the F8x M3/M4 before Motec. In the past couple of years, Syvecs has added: BMW E9x M3 and N54 (DI), Porsche 997.2 Turbo and 991.1./991.2 Turbo (DI), and Audi TTRS/RS3 (DI).

Meanwhile, Motec has really only added the Huracan and R8 (Gen 2) support because of Underground Racing and it's relationship with John Reed Racing.

It also doesn't hurt that Syvecs will be easier on the wallet and has demonstrated that it has better CAN integration with several European platforms.

except when you're best friends with Vit

we love being the pioneers and none of those solutions compare to MoTeC and Vit's Custom algorithms.

Also side note CAN integration is literally all just about decoding their CANbus. Most people are just to lazy to do anything past basic motor functions due to amount of time it takes. Which is why Vit already warned me he's going to have my car for at least 3 months

[cookiesowns]

Originally Posted by 420Coupe

except when you're best friends with Vit

we love being the pioneers and none of those solutions compare to MoTeC and Vit's Custom algorithms.

Also side note CAN integration is literally all just about decoding their CANbus. Most people are just to lazy to do anything past basic motor functions due to amount of time it takes. Which is why Vit already warned me he's going to have my car for at least 3 months

There's a few gotcha's. You might need to get a full bench read of stock DME in order to get the ISN and spoof that. Or use the Motec as a standalone with the stock DME piggybacking for the immobilizer stuff.

There's ALOT of flexray, various canbus integrations on these cars. Again, Vitaly knows where to reach me

[Mit_Boost]

Originally Posted by _Nathan_

I wouldn’t run my lawnmower on Syvecs (and if I did it wouldn’t run well)

Very insightful post. Meanwhile, the fastest US GTRs and WR Porsche are both running it... In addition, the only DI BMW running on a Motec is the MOTIV time attack car which doesn't have CAN integration. And then there's Syvecs, which you wouldn't put on a lawnmower

[_Nathan_]

Having worked with it yes, it is awful. This was on a so called “plug and play” ECU that was anything but.

I’ve had lots of conversations with people who have had a terrible time trying to get Syvecs to work reliably. I am aware of one high profile GTR tuner making the swap and have been involved with them - the difference in feedback between the two platforms is stark.

There is also more than one DI BMW running on MoTeC, never mind all the other DI engines running it (and there are loads of them). Just because you don’t have a broad enough view to know about the cars doesn’t mean they aren’t out there.

That said and even though I am a massive advocate of MoTeC and have written many packages for M1 I personally couldn’t be bothered with swapping the OEM ECU from my road going F80. For a race car then M1 would be my go to ECU and the other ECUs I would readily consider for such projects would also include Bosch, Pectel and McLaren if the budget / complexity justified it. One big advantage of those 3 over M1 IMO is that they use matlab / simulink for development.

[BMWcurious]

Adding Simulink code to the OEM MEVD17 is possible, but I didn't like the bloated code or cost, so have been using C. Nice to hear others interested in this stuff instead of pops and bangs.

[cookiesowns]

Originally Posted by _Nathan_

Having worked with it yes, it is awful. This was on a so called “plug and play” ECU that was anything but.

I’ve had lots of conversations with people who have had a terrible time trying to get Syvecs to work reliably. I am aware of one high profile GTR tuner making the swap and have been involved with them - the difference in feedback between the two platforms is stark.

There is also more than one DI BMW running on MoTeC, never mind all the other DI engines running it (and there are loads of them). Just because you don’t have a broad enough view to know about the cars doesn’t mean they aren’t out there.

That said and even though I am a massive advocate of MoTeC and have written many packages for M1 I personally couldn’t be bothered with swapping the OEM ECU from my road going F80. For a race car then M1 would be my go to ECU and the other ECUs I would readily consider for such projects would also include Bosch, Pectel and McLaren if the budget / complexity justified it. One big advantage of those 3 over M1 IMO is that they use matlab / simulink for development.

There are A2L hex's floating around, and one can use ASAM/ASAP2 toolkits to do similar debugging/development on the MEVD172G, even better if you have access to factory Bosch Funktionrahmens, but still, not accessible to the many.

Originally Posted by BMWcurious

Adding Simulink code to the OEM MEVD17 is possible, but I didn't like the bloated code or cost, so have been using C. Nice to hear others interested in this stuff instead of pops and bangs.

Hi ! I know you from the other forum Been following your work for a while. Have you managed to get access to A2L Hex and Funktionrahmens, or are you simply disassembling by hand and what not? I wonder if having access to the full files will allow us to run simulations using ASAM/ASAP2 or other suites that have those protocols?

[BMWcurious]

The stuff floating around is invariably piecemeal and pre-production with quite a few differences and still doesn't contain the stuff I really need for which I really want an elf or map file. It is better than just a few table and logging PIDs like I had on the simpler Evo and GT-R ECUs, but to make progress I've had to disassemble heavily.

The restriction of not having a matching A2L is considerable when you want to use tools to modify as you do not have the memory layout. The suppliers of these tools have expensive support even for when you do have an A2L - they are squarely aimed at OEMs. I was able to make a trial version do some of what I wanted by making a partial A2L, but ended up having to disassemble to feed the application some of the values it needed for memory layout/access. Then found the options too restrictive as you could only really hook a memory write and it would not reuse existing functions.

I've seen a simple aftermarket patch on another manufacturer using the same tool, but what could be reduced to 20 lines of C took several kilobytes of resources. You have to be a bit more careful on S55 as BMW have filled it by adding their own code on top of Bosch, ending up with something using over twice the resources of a competitor twin turbo V8.

[cookiesowns]

Originally Posted by BMWcurious

The stuff floating around is invariably piecemeal and pre-production with quite a few differences and still doesn't contain the stuff I really need for which I really want an elf or map file. It is better than just a few table and logging PIDs like I had on the simpler Evo and GT-R ECUs, but to make progress I've had to disassemble heavily.

The restriction of not having a matching A2L is considerable when you want to use tools to modify as you do not have the memory layout. The suppliers of these tools have expensive support even for when you do have an A2L - they are squarely aimed at OEMs. I was able to make a trial version do some of what I wanted by making a partial A2L, but ended up having to disassemble to feed the application some of the values it needed for memory layout/access. Then found the options too restrictive as you could only really hook a memory write and it would not reuse existing functions.

I've seen a simple aftermarket patch on another manufacturer using the same tool, but what could be reduced to 20 lines of C took several kilobytes of resources. You have to be a bit more careful on S55 as BMW have filled it by adding their own code on top of Bosch, ending up with something using over twice the resources of a competitor twin turbo V8.

Totally missed this response! I appreciate it. I wonder why BMW did this... and what specifically they've added to bloat the resources.

Sad news about the ones that are floating around. I've once heard a bird on the street that there are production A2L Hex and documents for the S55.. but for just anyone to obtain is near impossible.

[BMWcurious]

I assume they wanted to reuse much of their legacy code base and integrated new stuff into it. It does not appear to give any advantage over more vanilla MED17 variants that are competitive in terms of emissions, economy, performance so my Audi V8 twin turbo with just as much tech uses much less memory on the same TC1797 than a BMW six twin turbo.

[420Coupe]

Small update -

While in the process of getting the car over to Vit; Vit has now been hired by MoTeC which means there will be a couple different hoops i'll have to jump through and actually convince MoTeC as apposed to Vit.

What that means is we'll just have to show there is interest and a demand for the product. Which seems easy enough; however there will be a delay until Vit moves over to the East Coast to get it started.

[qmp]

Originally Posted by 420Coupe

Small update -

While in the process of getting the car over to Vit; Vit has now been hired by MoTeC which means there will be a couple different hoops i'll have to jump through and actually convince MoTeC as apposed to Vit.

What that means is we'll just have to show there is interest and a demand for the product. Which seems easy enough; however there will be a delay until Vit moves over to the East Coast to get it started.

Thanks for the update. Where on the East Coast?

[420Coupe]

Originally Posted by qmp

Thanks for the update. Where on the East Coast?

MoTeC HQ in North Carolina

[em3atl]

Interested in how this comes along

[M3CLESS]

is there any update to this? because I would be super interested

[Race82]

Originally Posted by M3CLESS

is there any update to this? because I would be super interested

+1

[rexb16]

me too, i just installed some mashimoto zx tires so i'm totes ready for this.

[tomlong]

bump for updates

[Alexander13.]

Anything ever happen here or just all speculation? If there is a MoTeC solution for at least CAN integration with DCT I'm there for a engine swap in my race car.