Should I be concerned about using Sport Plus engine mode all the time?

[3liter1]

Originally Posted by pheerIx

I find the rev drops to be too slow on Sport. I occasionally let the clutch too fast on 1-2 shift in Sport and the car jerks.

So if the rev drops are too slow, that means you are shifting super quick? You drive that way all the time? I could only see doing that on a track, or drag race, or back roads with no traffic, or when I want to be in a very aggressive mode.

[Aaaaaaaaa]

Originally Posted by 3liter1

So if the rev drops are too slow, that means you are shifting super quick? You drive that way all the time? I could only see doing that on a track, or drag race, or back roads with no traffic, or when I want to be in a very aggressive mode.

I wouldn't say I shift super quick but there's always some waiting to be done during the 1-2 shift because of the large gear ratio discrepancy. It feels exaggerated in Sport mode compared to Comfort and Sport+ which makes no sense to me.

[3liter1]

Originally Posted by pheerIx

I wouldn't say I shift super quick but there's always some waiting to be done during the 1-2 shift because of the large gear ratio discrepancy. It feels exaggerated in Sport mode compared to Comfort and Sport+ which makes no sense to me.

I should have added, at what rpm shift point ? Mine are below 3k most of the time. I have not had much chance to do it at higher points, sadly. I will experiment.

[Aaaaaaaaa]

Originally Posted by 3liter1

I should have added, at what rpm shift point ? Mine are below 3k most of the time. I have not had much chance to do it at higher points, sadly. I will experiment.

Usually shift around 3k or a bit higher

[Mr. Hankey]

Originally Posted by 3liter1

I find that in normal (slower) driving, revs drop too much on upshifts with sport +. Am I missing something? I often want to be able to shift casually, not in human DCT mode, and that causes rev drop in both efficient and sport +. Sport seems to work best. Perhaps just a personal preference thing ?

Yes the revs do drop quicker in Sport+ so you need to trail the throttle a bit between upshifts to maintain your revs and keep it smooth. Practice it a bit an it will become second nature, just like learning to heel-toe downshift (in this car more like inside foot/outside foot).

Economy automatically does this for you - upshift slowly and you'll see it automatically match revs when you notch the shifter up a gear so it feels much smoother. I never use sport ever so I assume it also rev matches on upshifts. My dream setting would be sport setting is no rev matching and no burbles...those have gotten really old to me...

[Tall Tom Cruise]

Originally Posted by rhk118

Yes the revs do drop quicker in Sport+ so you need to trail the throttle a bit between upshifts to maintain your revs and keep it smooth. Practice it a bit an it will become second nature, just like learning to heel-toe downshift (in this car more like inside foot/outside foot).

Economy automatically does this for you - upshift slowly and you'll see it automatically match revs when you notch the shifter up a gear so it feels much smoother. I never use sport ever so I assume it also rev matches on upshifts. My dream setting would be sport setting is no rev matching and no burbles...those have gotten really old to me...

My neighbors feel the same way.

[Habber]

I can't be the only one who laughs when people talk about mpg....

[Aaaaaaaaa]

Originally Posted by Habber

I can't be the only one who laughs when people talk about mpg....

Same. Also when people say they take pride in car ownership.

[Speedwell-Industries]

That's the only way to drive the car!

[OF Hero]

I'm 50/50 Sport and Sport+.

Mainly because I worry if I use Sport+ too much I'll get "used to it" LOL. And then comes the mod itch.

[Takumi587]

I would imagine rear bushings potentially wearing faster due to the aggressive shifts? My E46 M3 rear bushings had to be replaced every 30k miles until I swapped them for polyurethane... Car has gone through some aggressive testing so engine wise should be able to handle it as well. My guess again is May need to add oil if driving aggressive constantly.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by Takumi587

I would imagine rear bushings potentially wearing faster due to the aggressive shifts? My E46 M3 rear bushings had to be replaced every 30k miles until I swapped them for polyurethane... Car has gone through some aggressive testing so engine wise should be able to handle it as well. My guess again is May need to add oil if driving aggressive constantly.

Sport+ does not affect shift speed, only throttle response and some other engine characteristics.

[M3Tooner]

Running in Sport+ engine mode will put your engine into super cooling mode to anticipate for higher engine loads/duty cycle like when driving at the race track. This is achieved by first opening up the electronic thermostat to allow for more coolant flow from radiator to engine, then when thermally saturated, the fans will kick in to provide more cooling. This is the main reason why the F8x is so bullet proof at not overheating at the race track.

However if you're just driving normally on the street but run Sport+ all the time, your engine will never reach it's normal operating temperature. I have a AIM Solo DL that tells me coolant and oil temps numerically in real-time.

When driving normally in 80-90F ambient temps:
Efficient and Sport = Coolant @ 212-224F, Oil @ 212-223F
Sport+ = Coolant @ 163-178F, Oil 195-205F
(I edited the numbers because I had remembered wrongly)

Do you know what happens when your engine oil never gets up to its intended normal operating temp? Wear increases because the cold engine doesn’t heat the oil sufficiently to evaporate harmful deposits from combustion blow-by and moisture, and then acid will accumulate rapidly, and eat away at the inside of your engine. Not to mention fuel economy goes down the toilet but none here seems to worry too much about that one. However if you do frequent oil changes, the corrosion part may not be an issue.

One other interesting fact that I've discovered is that in winter months, when ambient temps are below 50F, the F8x is smart enough to know that it needs to bump the coolant temperature up a little to ensure you get sufficient heating inside the cabin. It will run the coolant at close to 200F automatically even in Sport+ mode.

So the question is, if both Sport and Sport+ uses the same engine mapping to ensure turbos get spooled quickly to provide sharp throttle response, but one runs at normal temp and the other at colder temps, why would you choose the colder option if you're only driving on the streets? The car is going to be just as fast and responsive in either Sport or Sport+. It's your car, you can do whatever you want.

I'm still at awe at how advanced the cooling system is on this car. I don't think any other vehicle in its class offers this amount of cooling sophistication, maybe in the higher end sports cars, they do.

[CigarPundit]

Originally Posted by M3Tooner

Running in Sport+ engine mode will put your engine into super cooling mode to anticipate for higher engine loads/duty cycle like when driving at the race track. This is achieved by first opening up the electronic thermostat to allow for more coolant flow from radiator to engine, then when thermally saturated, the fans will kick in to provide more cooling. This is the main reason why the F8x is so bullet proof at not overheating at the race track.

However if you're just driving normally on the street but run Sport+ all the time, your engine will never reach it's normal operating temperature. I have a AIM Solo DL that tells me coolant and oil temps numerically in real-time.

When driving normally in 80-90F ambient temps:
Eco and Sport = Coolant @ 212F, Oil @ 210-220F
Sport+ = Coolant @ 170F, Oil 170-180F

Do you know what happens when your engine oil never gets up to its intended normal operating temp? Wear increases because the cold engine doesn’t heat the oil sufficiently to evaporate harmful deposits from combustion blow-by and moisture, and then acid will accumulate rapidly, and eat away at the inside of your engine. Not to mention fuel economy goes down the toilet but none here seems to worry too much about that one. However if you do frequent oil changes, the corrosion part may not be an issue.

One other interesting fact that I've discovered is that in winter months, when ambient temps are below 50F, the F8x is smart enough to know that it needs to bump the coolant temperature up a little to ensure you get sufficient heating inside the cabin. It will run the coolant at close to 200F automatically even in Sport+ mode.

So the question is, if both Sport and Sport+ uses the same engine mapping to ensure turbos get spooled quickly to provide sharp throttle response, but one runs at normal temp and the other at colder temps, why would you choose the colder option if you're only driving on the streets? The car is going to be just as fast and responsive in either Sport or Sport+. It's your car, you can do whatever you want.

I'm still at awe at how advanced the cooling system is on this car. I don't think any other vehicle in its class offers this amount of cooling sophistication, maybe in the higher end sports cars, they do.

I find this highly dubious. You are telling us that running in S+ all the time will damage or possibly ruin my engine, yet there is not the slightest hint of a warning about this in the manual? And that the car is sophisticated enough to bring the oil temp up in the very cold weather, but not in normal conditions? Also, I find that my indicated oil temp in S+ during my daily commute and driving around town is between 200 and 220. Sorry, but I call BS.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by CigarPundit

I find this highly dubious. You are telling us that running in S+ all the time will damage or possibly ruin my engine, yet there is not the slightest hint of a warning about this in the manual? And that the car is sophisticated enough to bring the oil temp up in the very cold weather, but not in normal conditions? Also, I find that my indicated oil temp in S+ during my daily commute and driving around town is between 200 and 220. Sorry, but I call BS.

Agreed. A slight drop in oil temp isn't doing any damage to the engine.

Also, sport and sport+ do not run the same map as sport+ is much more sensitive to throttle inputs among other things.

[KZEVO]

I keep the throttle in sports plus all the time...mainly so i can heel toe and to keep valves open on the MPE (but latter can be done in sports too)

[marvinp]

Originally Posted by M3Tooner

...

Sport+ = Coolant @ 170F, Oil 170-180F

...

That doesn't seem right. I run in Sport+ all the time, and my engine temp is in the middle of the first half in the temp gauge. That corresponds to 205F, not 170-180F.

[M3Tooner]

Originally Posted by marvinp

That doesn't seem right. I run in Sport+ all the time, and my engine temp is in the middle of the first half in the temp gauge. That corresponds to 205F, not 170-180F.

My mistake, I was trying to remember the numbers from a year ago when I experimented. I did some measurements again this morning and took some pictures.

Left pic = Efficient mode fully warmed up. ECT 224.6F, OILT 222.8F
Middle pic = Sport+ mode initiation of cooling. ECT immediately drops to 163F to bring oil temp down faster.
Right pic = Sport+ mode stabilized. ECT 177.8F, OILT 195.8F.

I have no proof that running cooler OILT will damage your engine, and I'm not about to go proof it with my own car. My understanding is that Oil needs to get up to minimum 212F to evaporate any moisture trapped in your crankcase. Afterall, 212F is the boiling point of water. Same for any combustion blow-by the piston rings, not sure the evaporation temp of those contaminants. It'll probably take years of neglect with contaminated oil to really cause any damage though, I don't know for sure. All I know are the stories I hear of peoples cars that are only driven <5 minutes a day to the store and back, and it is bad for the engine to never reach its normal operating temperature. Haven't anyone else heard that before?

[jmciver]

Originally Posted by M3Tooner

My mistake, I was trying to remember the numbers from a year ago when I experimented. I did some measurements again this morning and took some pictures.

Left pic = Efficient mode fully warmed up. ECT 224.6F, OILT 222.8F
Middle pic = Sport+ mode initiation of cooling. ECT immediately drops to 163F to bring oil temp down faster.
Right pic = Sport+ mode stabilized. ECT 177.8F, OILT 195.8F.

I have no proof that running cooler OILT will damage your engine, and I'm not about to go proof it with my own car. My understanding is that Oil needs to get up to minimum 212F to evaporate any moisture trapped in your crankcase. Afterall, 212F is the boiling point of water. Same for any combustion blow-by the piston rings, not sure the evaporation temp of those contaminants. It'll probably take years of neglect with contaminated oil to really cause any damage though, I don't know for sure. All I know are the stories I hear of peoples cars that are only driven <5 minutes a day to the store and back, and it is bad for the engine to never reach its normal operating temperature. Haven't anyone else heard that before?

You are correct that the oil does need to be at the correct opperating temperature to provide the requred level of protection for the engine when operating under load. However, the temperatures you have posted in Sport+ appear to be once temps have stabalized while at idle - which is a low engine load condition. Once you actually put some load on the engine, the oil temps will go up, even if the load is just city/highway driving.

I drive in Sport+ all of the time, from the time I start the engine, and my temps will stabalize higher than what you posted while I am driving. I have not actually measured my oil temp while driving, but I know it is higher than what you have poseted just based on what I remember seeing on the oil gauge in the car. However, regardless of what mode I drive in, I always drive "easy" until oil gets up to temp - which appears to occur at the same rate regardless of what mode you start in.

From what I can tell, the ECU in this car is pretty smart and won't invoke the Sport+ extra cooling until the oil has reached some minimum operating temperature.

[phyek]

I am in sport mode 90% of the time. Enjoy the car. The button is there for a reason!

[Patrik]

Originally Posted by marvinp

From the interview with Juergen Poggel:



Would be nice if someone could explain that to me like I'm 5.

I'm no engineer, but I'd describe it as the turbos rotate faster and react quicker in Sport+, hence reducing on something people tend to call "turbolag".

[NVA2L8-II]

Definitely interesting...

First: I do not like that The default mode for the steering is sport...(I’m sure I’m beating a dead horse...).

I have my M1 mode set at sport sport and comfort (steering)

And my M2 mode is at sport+ sport+ and sport...

Perhaps I am being overly cautious about everything? I just wish that default mode is sport comfort(suspension) and comfort(steering), only for the reasons of relaxed and tame driving around town...