IAT temps with bolt on upgrades (aluminum charge pipes, CSF cooler, etc.)

[AMOR]

Hi, I'm currently doing a custom map BM3 tune and ran into an issue with high IAT temps and so the car is constantly pulling the timing. We've been doing data logs to fine tune the map, and my IAT temps are between 110 to 130 degrees F at 88 degrees ambient and the tuner says that those values are pretty high.

My current list of mods:
Bootmod Stage 2 custom tune
Full catless exhaust
BMC drop in filters
CSF top mount intercooler
CSF front heat exchanger
FTP charge & boost pipe kit (aluminum)
Macht Schnell air intake scoops

Unfortunately I haven't logged the stock intake temps before installing the upgraded parts to see the difference, but what are you guys getting at 88-90 degrees ambient temps to compare?

Is it possible that CSF intercooler and front mount heat exchanger are actually less efficient than stock? Or perhaps the aluminum charge & boost pipes are heating up and giving such result?

Thanks for your help, would appreciate any advice.

[FriedPiston]

133* F is definitely high considering your "cooling" mods.

1. Can you confirm that you're data logging exclusively in Sport+ engine mode?

2. Have you checked the coolant level?

3. Have you considered rebleeding the cooling system?

[AMOR]

Originally Posted by nars3000

133* F is definitely high considering your "cooling" mods.

1. Can you confirm that you're data logging exclusively in Sport+ engine mode?

2. Have you checked the coolant level?

3. Have you considered rebleeding the cooling system?

Hi, yes I data log in SPORT+ with traction off. Car is just from the shop, where the cooling mods were installed. They did a full system flush with new coolant. I haven't checked the coolant levels yet, but will check for sure and report back here. What IAT values do you get on stock setup for ambient temps of 88-90 degrees F?

Here is a datalog of 15 mins of spirited driving around town where the IAT temps are constantly high - in the 120-130 degrees F range:
http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d1b8567c090c62e0aaf3e63

The bad news is that I installed all of these bolt on mods in one shot, so now it will be a PITA to figure out what is actually causing it.

[FriedPiston]

Originally Posted by AMOR

What IAT values do you get on stock setup for ambient temps of 88-90 degrees F?

118* F max IAT with a starting point of 99* F before the 1/4 mile pass. This was on a completely stock cooling system at 105* F ambient temp. I'd expect way lower peak IATs with your cooling setup.

[spool twice]

What's the fluid composition in your intercooler cooling loop? Like is it 50/50 coolant/water?

[M3anPower]

Leak from charge pipes can lead to high IAT.

But check all the above suggestion and if IAT still high then check the charge pipe o ring

[TideMD]

I'm also in the process of tuning with Cary, currently on 2nd revision for my F82 running Injen CAI and CPs, AR Design catt'd DPs, and AA mid. Rest of the intake/cooling/exhaust components are stock.

Living in southern Louisiana, ambient temps have been high 80s to low/mid 90s with significant humidity the last several weeks. Even with those environmental factors, I've yet to routinely hit IATs higher than 112-115F, and that was usually during routine driving in Eco/Sport mode or with the car sitting idle resulting in heat soak.

[CSF Cooling]

30 degrees above ambient is ~ what you would expect from any charge cooler system. we're doing testing on Audi RS6/Rs7 at the moment and we're seeing the same.

[AMOR]

Originally Posted by CSF Cooling

30 degrees above ambient is ~ what you would expect from any charge cooler system. we're doing testing on Audi RS6/Rs7 at the moment and we're seeing the same.

Hi, thanks for your input! It is still unexpected to see IAT temps with the cooling mods being higher than with stock intercooler and heat exchanger. I have checked the coolant levels in both reservoirs and it is normal. Should I do a coolant flush or what would you recommend?

P.S. I will test the new setup at the track soon and will report back here with my findings.

[Mag1c Carp3t]

This is quite concerning.

[spool twice]

Maybe it's me, but it's pretty self explanatory..
I mean you are replacing the efficient OEM unit with a less efficient bar-n-plate design, which reduces surface area, not a surprise at the less than OEM cooling.....

The OE cores would stop failing if you drill the cap with an overflow tube.... imagine the $$$$$ vendors would make with this simple idea and not force you to spend on an inferior product that doesn't produce results...these vendors didn't even research as to why the OE cores failed, instead marketed based on fears.... this "theory" is a fact on other water-to-air platforms... you all are being played big time... thank you CSF...


I mean a real OE water-to-air vs a joke bar-an-plate unit....this vendor should be ashamed to set the platform back 10 years, congrats I applaud your sh!t design:-)

.......

[TR930]

Originally Posted by spool twice

Maybe it's me, but it's pretty self explanatory..
I mean you are replacing the efficient OEM unit with a less efficient bar-n-plate design, which reduces surface area, not a surprise at the less than OEM cooling.....

The OE cores would stop failing if you drill the cap with an overflow tube.... imagine the $$$$$ vendors would make with this simple idea and not force you to spend on an inferior product that doesn't produce results...these vendors didn't even research as to why the OE cores failed, instead marketed based on fears.... this "theory" is a fact on other water-to-air platforms... you all are being played big time... thank you CSF...


I mean a real OE water-to-air vs a joke bar-an-plate unit....this vendor should be ashamed to set the platform back 10 years, congrats I applaud your sh!t design:-)

.......

Hey, is it as simple as drilling a hole in the cap and running a hose out of it? I'm interested in doing this. That's a simple solution and may provide superior cooling by keeping the stock unit. Can you PM me?

[spool twice]

Yes, I can explain further why this happens, we found this out in my last platform as I kept going through cores every 3-4months at $800 a pop, surprisingly it's not due to boost pressure (at least not directly, but indirectly), but pressure within the fluid loop itself due to heat cycles (direct issue, but related to heat transfer that occurs from running higher boost) and pressure/fluid backpressure being built up when the auxillary pump shuts itself off and wearing away at the end caps on the intercooler, where often you will find that the leak occurs there where the fins/plates meet the end caps on either side (but can occur along the plate itself, though there is a higher probability that it leaks at the end caps internally, food for thought and where it should be reinforced, ie. don't count on having thicker plates to resolve the issue...)

the tube provides pressure relief (cap off the tube with something that fits in the inner diameter of the tube, but not so that its snug, you'll want it to vent pressure out slightly, but not to the point of where fluids spill out).

I went 8 months on the same cores vs having to change it through every 3-4 months (and one unlucky event where I changed it a month after, ugh!), and only 8 months because I ended up trading in the car for the M4. If I ever increase boost pressure, this is all I'd do:

-keep the OE system intact
-add an "overflow" tube with a cap at the end (3-4' long)
-use a 95%/5% ratio of distilled water-to-coolant (or redline water wetter or similar), water is the ultimate source to remove heat.

The OE system seems to be very efficient, even at whatever BMW recommends (which is likely 50/50 coolant/distilled water or 100% BMW coolant). If I wanted to push it more like on a road course, then a front mount bar-n-plate heat exchanger (this is where a bar-n-plate belongs). My last platform found that bar-n-plate front mounts kept the intake air temps cooler than a traditional water-to-air heat exchanger because it kept the fluids cooler in the loop.

I will admit, I'm new to the S55 platform, however water-to-air cooling systems are pretty standard across the board for any platform. But I did run an A/C-based intercooling system on my last car, if you want ultimate cold fluids, look into a killerchiller/interchiller system if you want true sub-ambient intake air temps (like up to 20*F lower than ambient because the A/C can chill the fluid down to 40*F on any given day...), but thats a different subject.

here's a picture of what I am speaking of:


https://photos.app.goo.gl/oEvREMjdVqbcbA3Y6


that $15 mod saved me $800/each time the intercooler would have failed.

[spool twice]

and not to continue to derail the O/P's thread, but I wanted to put in my 2 cents about some of these claims (not picking on one manufacture by any means)....

they are claiming less pressure drop than the OE unit. But here is the kicker, none have produced CFM #'s, this matters more. And here is the reason why:

why wouldn't you want maximum pressure drop? That to me indicates that the intercooler is doing its job, intercooling air. Colder air = less pressure (or a higher pressure drop). Just think of a cold tire vs warm tire, its relatively in a sealed environment, a warm tire reads higher psi than a cold tire right? Or how about a pressure cooker, the hotter the air gets, the higher the pressure.

Pressure drops are useless, I'd rather see CFM data post intercooled (along with actual intake air temps).

[cryptz]

is there anything we could do to simply vent the reservoir tank that is behind the heat exchanger? id rather find an alternate cap vs drilling something etc, especially if the pressure relief could be obtained on that tank vs somewhere else in the system..

[turbo v6]

Just to add readings to this thread, car is stock, highest levels during drive:

[TR930]

Originally Posted by spool twice

Yes, I can explain further why this happens, we found this out in my last platform as I kept going through cores every 3-4months at $800 a pop, surprisingly it's not due to boost pressure (at least not directly, but indirectly), but pressure within the fluid loop itself due to heat cycles (direct issue, but related to heat transfer that occurs from running higher boost) and pressure/fluid backpressure being built up when the auxillary pump shuts itself off and wearing away at the end caps on the intercooler, where often you will find that the leak occurs there where the fins/plates meet the end caps on either side (but can occur along the plate itself, though there is a higher probability that it leaks at the end caps internally, food for thought and where it should be reinforced, ie. don't count on having thicker plates to resolve the issue...)

the tube provides pressure relief (cap off the tube with something that fits in the inner diameter of the tube, but not so that its snug, you'll want it to vent pressure out slightly, but not to the point of where fluids spill out).

I went 8 months on the same cores vs having to change it through every 3-4 months (and one unlucky event where I changed it a month after, ugh!), and only 8 months because I ended up trading in the car for the M4. If I ever increase boost pressure, this is all I'd do:

-keep the OE system intact
-add an "overflow" tube with a cap at the end (3-4' long)
-use a 95%/5% ratio of distilled water-to-coolant (or redline water wetter or similar), water is the ultimate source to remove heat.

The OE system seems to be very efficient, even at whatever BMW recommends (which is likely 50/50 coolant/distilled water or 100% BMW coolant). If I wanted to push it more like on a road course, then a front mount bar-n-plate heat exchanger (this is where a bar-n-plate belongs). My last platform found that bar-n-plate front mounts kept the intake air temps cooler than a traditional water-to-air heat exchanger because it kept the fluids cooler in the loop.

I will admit, I'm new to the S55 platform, however water-to-air cooling systems are pretty standard across the board for any platform. But I did run an A/C-based intercooling system on my last car, if you want ultimate cold fluids, look into a killerchiller/interchiller system if you want true sub-ambient intake air temps (like up to 20*F lower than ambient because the A/C can chill the fluid down to 40*F on any given day...), but thats a different subject.

here's a picture of what I am speaking of:


https://photos.app.goo.gl/oEvREMjdVqbcbA3Y6


that $15 mod saved me $800/each time the intercooler would have failed.

Inside the cap on the reservoir there is a moveable piece, what might be a pressure vent to avoid what you described. Could it be that BMW thought of this already?

[domino_z]

Ecs running 20% off forge coolers atm - this is a well designed cooler with seperate expansion tank

Perfect opportunity to do the kind of back to back real world testing csf have yet to do

[Shadow2]

Originally Posted by domino_z

Ecs running 20% off forge coolers atm - this is a well designed cooler with seperate expansion tank

Perfect opportunity to do the kind of back to back real world testing csf have yet to do

Ooh this is tempting...