Found out the used M4 I purchased had been in an accident

[Hcc1903]

Originally Posted by Chris_DM

I guess the old saying "buyer beware" really rings true.

With that said, it's why I'm anal about PPI and relying on first-hand facts vs. Carfax and reporting.

As others have said, I wouldn't stress too much. Try to figure out the extent of the damage. Was it just a bumper repaint due to a parking lot scrape? Or was it a re-built front-end from hitting a tree and air-bags deploying? "Front end damage" can mean a lot of things. I scratched my old S5 in a parking lot squeezing out...1mph scraping against the wall...and it was "front end damage" on the Carfax.

I'm not a lawyer so this isn't legal advice, but you're likely better off finding a way to meet in the middle with the dealership. Ask them for some money back, free extended warranty, take it back at what you paid on a trade-in on a different car (unlikely but hey, aim high).

The front license plate is bent. I found it in the trunk under the mat. I'm assuming the previous owner hit the car. The front bumper is also not aligned. There is a gap between the hood and the bumper.

[IK6SPEED]

Originally Posted by PochachongPochiching

Over the years of car ownership I learned never to rely on Carfax report. It is not always accurate. Back in early 2000 I had a car that was hit while parked in front of then Circuit City. The other driver fled the scene. The bumper and rear left tail light were damaged and had to be replaced. Total cost was over $2k. This incident was never captured by Carfax. A different car that I had owned got into a collision. Damage was over $5k. This incident was never captured by Carfax. Even today if I run the vin on Carfax both cars show clean history report.

I can do much better than that.

Had a Dodge Viper. Actually 2. Purchased new.

First one trucked in from Texas Dealer. Rolled off truck and ran so bad it had to be towed to Dealership. Worked on it 2-3 weeks. Dodge even sent techs in. All miffed. Could not get it running correctly so Dealer sent me a check.

Replaced it with a local car that came in during the 2-3 weeks. Hood fell apart. Dodge tried to fix 3 times. Hood alone was $5k....each. Dodge gave up. Said we aren’t fixing. Tough shit.

I obviously sued and after 4 years in the Court System if me funding lawyers personally the were ordered by a jury to buy car back.

Several months later Dodge Dealer up North called to ask some questions. Dealer was never informed car was court ordered buyback. Was actually upset as then he had to disclose to potential buyers.

2 years later ran a Carfax.

Indicated neither car had any issues problem and certainly did not indicate either were buybacks.

[speedmaster20d]

I'd take the car to a body shop or mechanic your trust and ask them to look under the bumper and see how extensive the damage was...if it was minor just enjoy your car and let it go....you can sue but the cost, time, headache etc. etc. not worth it and you may not win at the end.


I sold my S5 a few months ago, it also had a 5mph fender bender, all cosmetics and honestly after they repainted the bumper it was better than new with 0 scratches, of course the value of the car dropped because of the Carfax report. prior to that I had a Honda that had an accident with 5K damages but it never showed on Carfax. Carfax doesn't mean much except for making sure the car wasn't stolen, salvage etc.

good luck

[elinstylez]

Originally Posted by Mazen189

Doesn't carfax guarantee a buyback of damage is reported ?

Yeah what did they say when they denied liability? They openly advertise this guarantee so perhaps you should look into suing CM.

I discovered my '13 CPO 328i had its bumpers repainted. I was upset that they didn't disclose the repaint but they're permitted to for minor blemishes such as rock chips, dings, etc. However, it didn't explain why they repainted the rear bumper, which I suspected was in some kind of accident. Clean Carfax of course. After some negotiating the dealer agreed to give me some compensation and I was fine with it. Avoided some unwanted attention/lawsuit for the dealer and headache for me.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by elinstylez

Yeah what did they say when they denied liability? They openly advertise this guarantee so perhaps you should look into suing CM.

I discovered my '13 CPO 328i had its bumpers repainted. I was upset that they didn't disclose the repaint but they're permitted to for minor blemishes such as rock chips, dings, etc. However, it didn't explain why they repainted the rear bumper, which I suspected was in some kind of accident. Clean Carfax of course. After some negotiating the dealer agreed to give me some compensation and I was fine with it. Avoided some unwanted attention/lawsuit for the dealer and headache for me.

The CarFax guarantee covers title problems that it doesn’t report (salvage, odometer problems, flood, fire, etc.). There is no guarantee their report includes all accidents, other damage or a complete service history. Additionally, if you read CPO program requirements, cars that have been repaired after accidents can be CPO’d.

[Nicky_do_it]

Isn’t the operative word, “reported?” If a Carfax report is stating no accidents reported, that doesn’t mean the vehicle was not in an accident. So I agree with many that Carfax reports dont carry much weight.

However, in the OP’s case, the Carfax report confirmed that an accident was reported at the time of sale. The dealer erroneously said it was clean and the OP didn’t verify until after the sale. Now it’s up to the OP unfortunately to prove the dealer was in error.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by Nicky_do_it

Isn’t the operative word, “reported?” If a Carfax report is stating no accidents reported, that doesn’t mean the vehicle was not in an accident. So I agree with many that Carfax reports dont carry much weight.

However, in the OP’s case, the Carfax report confirmed that an accident was reported at the time of sale. The dealer erroneously said it was clean and the OP didn’t verify until after the sale. Now it’s up to the OP unfortunately to prove the dealer was in error.

Original CarFax OP saw did not have an accident. I presume that’s what “We signed a CLEAR CarFax report.” means.

The accident appeared after OP purchased the car and ran CarFax again. If report was clean at the time of sale, what is dealer’s error? They don’t control what is reported to CarFax or when it is reported. It apparently got reported and added to CarFax after the sale.

['Cane]

I think I told my story; my 07 335i Coupe sustained $30,000.00 in damage (i also had $185k in medical bills, incl. an artificial disk in my neck). Had it repaired (shoddily) by a local BMW dealer, but the Carfax was clean, even years later (Autocheck was also clean).

[GitToDeChoppah]

Carfax sucks, but so do insurance companies. I was once towing a trailer with a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Some kid on his phone rear ended me at a stop light. The trailer popped off the ball hitch and gouged the rear of the jeep. Trailer was totaled. They had to tow the trailer away, obviously. I drove the Jeep away without an issue. Jeep body worked fixed with no structural damage. Go to trade it in months later, reported on Carfax as rear end colision and that the Jeep was towed. Dealer lowballed because it looks bad that it was towed, even though it really wasn't. Carfax said talk to the other guys insurance, since they reported it wrong. I tried that and got no where.

[HMM]

Also the dealer might have been screwed too. I'm sure some shady people would trade in a car and hope that it's not on a carfax report yet. I always look at the carafe report but if it's clean I still look everything over. If body lines are straight and gaps are even then it should be good to go. Uneven tire wear and gaps usually is the first sign to continue negotiation or straight up walk away.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by brettbmw

Touche…..The only way too really know is to have a bodyman look at car before you purchase, But how many people do that..Unless its a classic car.

Everyone I know, myself included.
This is part and parcel of a standard pre-purchase inspection. Any independent mechanic worth his salt will easily detect and report post-accident body repairs.

Originally Posted by brettbmw

Carfax is a joke its not what it claims to be.I wouldn't waste my $$$ trying to sue. If you cannot see or notice any damage ide just drive and enjoy car....Or get rid of it..

Agree on all counts.

a

[brettbmw]

Originally Posted by afadeev

Everyone I know, myself included.
This is part and parcel of a standard pre-purchase inspection. Any independent mechanic worth his salt will easily detect and report post-accident body repairs.



Agree on all counts.

a

Well ill tell u guys a story that happened tp my nephew a few mo ago, He purchased a 2016 fiesta ST , one day while he was showing it to one of his buddies who happens to be a body man, said the whole back end had been crushed....In Virginia was totaled out.Mind u this car was bought from our local ford dealer, He looked it up all that came up was car was a salvage title in VA, A totally clean title was issued for NY state. Now no one is going too tell me his dealer didn't know this..He called a lawyer who deals in this stuff and he told him, Not much can be done, all dealer has to do is deny they ever knew about it...And you know damn well they did.Thats the kind of crap that's happening now. They will do say anything too sell a car..

[IM2C]

This happened to me back in 2011. Bought 2008 Audi S5. Clean Carfax. Car couldn't be aligned to drive straight. I ran my own Carfax that showed 2 accidents in 2009. Confronted the dealer. They flatly denied. Hired an attorney. All it took is one letter from her.
They bought the car back and sold me new a tt at invoice. Your results may vary. Good luck.

[Poiseuille]

Originally Posted by IK6SPEED

Any lawyer will most likely take your case if you pay upfront as you go. None will take it on contingency as you will eventually lose and spend big bucks on your lawyer along the way.

Unless you can prove that BMW BH new of the damage - a literal impossible task unless it is noted in the car's service history. Otherwise, BMW BH made the statements in good faith. BMW BH not responsible for the delay in reporting of info to Carfax.

If you are so upset, sell the car and take the loss.

That loss will be less than you will end up paying to a lawyer.

as stated in my post as well as in Darth's post that I was quoting, we were raising the possibility of a class action suit, neither of us suggested a privately brought suit. further, the object of the suit would obviously have been CarFax not BMW-BH. judging by the many responses in this and in other threads on the forum this seems to be widespread enough to justify a suit. turns out, it would be far from the first time such a suit was brought against CarFax, and if OP had prevailed it would not be the first time CarFax had to settle in plaintiffs' favor.

regarding the possibility of liability on BMW-BH's part: the accident damage did finally appear on a subsequently obtained CarFax report, so SOMEBODY reported it. shouldn't be hard to find out who held title to the car at the time the repair was done. if it was BMW-BH, and they later represented to OP that it had a "clean CarFax", then OP was misled.

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by NoMoreAudi

Lawyers are scumbags.

I'm an attorney and I approve this message.

[IK6SPEED]

Originally Posted by Poiseuille

as stated in my post as well as in Darth's post that I was quoting, we were raising the possibility of a class action suit, neither of us suggested a privately brought suit. further, the object of the suit would obviously have been CarFax not BMW-BH. judging by the many responses in this and in other threads on the forum this seems to be widespread enough to justify a suit. turns out, it would be far from the first time such a suit was brought against CarFax, and if OP had prevailed it would not be the first time CarFax had to settle in plaintiffs' favor.

regarding the possibility of liability on BMW-BH's part: the accident damage did finally appear on a subsequently obtained CarFax report, so SOMEBODY reported it. shouldn't be hard to find out who held title to the car at the time the repair was done. if it was BMW-BH, and they later represented to OP that it had a "clean CarFax", then OP was misled.

Lots of luck. You seen sue happy. I suspect you have never gone through a court suit.

Carfax never claims to report everything.....just what is reported to it or it finds in public records. Furthermore, it never claims those records are updated instantly. Carfax hands down winner there.

As for BMW BH, they did not misrepresent to Buyer. The car DID have a clean Carfax. Verdict for BMWBH.

NOW, if you were so intent on suing, about the only long shot you have is against BMWBH for failure to properly inspect the car prior to sale, as witnessed from finding old license plate in rear and non-discovery of repair.

However, that is essentially circumstantial and would be very hard to prove, especially as the car show Carfax that they sold "in good faith".

[NoMoreAudi]

A friend of mine bought a car from a Nissan dealership (new). When it came time for him to sell it, he found out it had been in an accident... before he bought it new. He sued the dealership. Judge dismissed his case saying it wasn't Nissan's fault (wtf?). He filed another complaint and the second judge ordered Nissan pay up. He spent over 12 months on this... not sure how much he spent on the case but I'll ask.

[bmrwrld]

Yeah now your resale value will go down due to that report showing up after the fact.

[nickl630]

Originally Posted by Mr. Big

I sold a car to CarMax about 3 months after I got rear-ended. It did not show up on CarFax even though I did an official insurance claim. How long does it take for an accident to show up?

I've seen it take up to 6 months.

[nickl630]

Originally Posted by Mazen189

Doesn't carfax guarantee a buyback of damage is reported ?

Only if the car has a title brand (Salvage/Lemon) etc

[Nicky_do_it]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

Original CarFax OP saw did not have an accident. I presume that’s what “We signed a CLEAR CarFax report.” means.

The accident appeared after OP purchased the car and ran CarFax again. If report was clean at the time of sale, what is dealer’s error? They don’t control what is reported to CarFax or when it is reported. It apparently got reported and added to CarFax after the sale.

I thought the OP looked at the original report several months after purchase realizing only then that Carfax report was not clean. I must have misread.

Makes sense that the reporting was a timing issue. Ie accident, clean report, purchase then reported. I am guessing many folks trade in their car immediately after an accident repair. I know their are two camps on this thread on buying used vs new. If I am buying used I rather buy from private so I can ask them directly whether they had any paint/body work rather than a salesman. I realize buying used is supposed to be smart but depends on how old to me. If less than 1.5 years, I am guessing a higher probability of accident related rather than boredom.

[IK6SPEED]

Originally Posted by Nicky_do_it

I thought the OP looked at the original report several months after purchase realizing only then that Carfax report was not clean. I must have misread.

Makes sense that the reporting was a timing issue. Ie accident, clean report, purchase then reported. I am guessing many folks trade in their car immediately after an accident repair. I know their are two camps on this thread on buying used vs new. If I am buying used I rather buy from private so I can ask them directly whether they had any paint/body work rather than a salesman. I realize buying used is supposed to be smart but depends on how old to me. If less than 1.5 years, I am guessing a higher probability of accident related rather than boredom.

As if an individual will not lie to you, perhaps more so than a Dealership Salesperson, especially when trying to sell something of theirs.

That can be easily seen by some of the “mint” condition wheels people try to sell in forum classifieds.