BMW F80 M3 to Run on E85 Ethanol, or So Thinks Its Test Driver. Doh!

[Boss330]

The blue handle fuel nozzle IS for E85 (at Statoil gas stations anyway):



Statoil warns against using E85 on a regular car due to the issues associated with etanol on gaskets, fuel lines etc. SAAB used specific fuel system components on their E85 models.

In the US there has been 10% etanol added for a number of years, meaning that US cars might be more compatible with E85? On the other hand I doubt that BMW and other manufacturers choose different material for fuel components for the Euro vs US versions.

GM stopped using different materials in 2005 after no ill effects had been detected from E85.

Maybe the E85 "issues" is just a urban myth? Something for Mythbusters to investigate

[DASHOCKER]

Originally Posted by Boss330

The blue handle fuel nozzle IS for E85 (at Statoil gas stations anyway):



Statoil warns against using E85 on a regular car due to the issues associated with etanol on gaskets, fuel lines etc. SAAB used specific fuel system components on their E85 models.

In the US there has been 10% etanol added for a number of years, meaning that US cars might be more compatible with E85? On the other hand I doubt that BMW and other manufacturers choose different material for fuel components for the Euro vs US versions.

GM stopped using different materials in 2005 after no ill effects had been detected from E85.

Maybe the E85 "issues" is just a urban myth? Something for Mythbusters to investigate

sayeth what? "mabby" you should pass this on to our boy gugs..

[rado]

So why didn't the "astute witness" just ask the test driver if he was intentionally filling with E85? Even if the test driver didn't want to answer the question, it would likely be obvious from his reaction whether it was intentional or not.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Boss330

The blue handle fuel nozzle IS for E85 (at Statoil gas stations anyway):

Thank you for verifying.

In the US there has been 10% etanol added for a number of years, meaning that US cars might be more compatible with E85?

...

GM stopped using different materials in 2005 after no ill effects had been detected from E85.

Maybe the E85 "issues" is just a urban myth? Something for Mythbusters to investigate

The EPA has ruled that cars built from MY2007 onward for US sale are safe for up to E15. Cars built from model years 2001 to 2006 may be safe for that blend as well. Cars built before that are most probably not (and will accept E10 at most).

For any blend above E15 (and especially something as high as E85) I cannot imagine that it would be safe for use as a general practice in any arbitrary vehicle (even if the ECU was programmed to make proper use of it or at least allow for it). As someone mentions above, some other countries employ higher ethanol blends as standard practice. This fact may mean that some manufacturers decide to build all cars on a worldwide basis (or at least some models, particularly global ones) to run on such higher ethanol concentrated blends without incident. But I certainly would not make that assumption. There is more than likely some room for error (say, E20, as an example), but I think E85 could make non-metal engine parts (gaskets and seals) break down.

[FogCityM3]

Yeah, knowing what exactly went on at the scene probably has more explanatory power vs the fact that E85 was pumped in. It is weird that a presumably German BMW driver isn't able to properly identify which side the fuel door is, which then begs the question, was it a German driver.

As far as E85 efficiency, I thought E85 can be well harnessed in turbocharged engines with reasonably high compression ratios, if the engine is specifically built/tuned for E85. Here's something that was tested on a vehicle from now defunct Saab, where more power was acheived with no penalty in efficiency:

http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2...oes-it-quicker

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Emissions may be better (I don't know, honestly), but efficiency is generally worse.

http://ask.cars.com/2008/07/e85-gas-mileage.html

So any decrease in emmisions on a per unit of fuel basis may be negated by the fact that you will probably need more fuel to cover the equivalent distance.

I am sure BMW has explored E85, and probably has ongoing tests involving the alternative fuel. But I have my doubts that the F80 M3 is part of this research.

[macadam]

I ran my BMW 1991 E36 320i on E85 for 3years and 50000 kilometers.
I just put in a new Walbro255 fuelpump, used larger injectors and aftermarket engine management system.
Ran just fine! No issues at all with gaskets etc. Passed emissiontests yearly!
E85 has had a bad reputation but that is probably since all the ethanolcars so far have been made in order to be able to run regular fuel as well.... 13:1 - 15:1 in compression for a N/A engine on E85 should show much better mileage and economy.

Mythbusters would probably find that regular fuel is more corrosive that ethanol on most hoses..
It's only untreated aluminium that will show signs of wear/corrosion. So plastic or stainless steel is better material for the fuelrail!

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by rado

So why didn't the "astute witness" just ask the test driver if he was intentionally filling with E85? Even if the test driver didn't want to answer the question, it would likely be obvious from his reaction whether it was intentional or not.

We can only speculate, but, perhaps he did not want to embarrass the gentleman, or he just did not feel comfortable approaching a stranger, especially one driving a test car whom we all know would prefer to go about his business with the least amount of attention and drama.

Also, it is not clear to me from the account that the test driver didn't correct himself on his own before fueling up (or at least putting too much fuel in). Maybe the photographer started to walk over so as to keep the guy from "bricking his car" and before he could, the mistake was corrected.

[SoCali E36]

anyone else notice that it does not have the power dome or a hood vent

[Boss330]

According to the datasheet from Statoil the European 98 octane gas does NOT have any etanol at all.

Table 3 lists the contents of the fuel:
http://www3.statoil.com/MNE/SVG02326...2?OpenDocument

E85 (still Table 3):
http://www3.statoil.com/MNE/SVG02326...A?OpenDocument

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by macadam

I ran my BMW 1991 E36 320i on E85 for 3years and 50000 kilometers.
I just put in a new Walbro255 fuelpump, used larger injectors and aftermarket engine management system.
Ran just fine! No issues at all with gaskets etc. Passed emissiontests yearly!
E85 has had a bad reputation but that is probably since all the ethanolcars so far have been made in order to be able to run regular fuel as well.... 13:1 - 15:1 in compression for a N/A engine on E85 should show much better mileage and economy.

Mythbusters would probably find that regular fuel is more corrosive that ethanol on most hoses..
It's only untreated aluminium that will show signs of wear/corrosion. So plastic or stainless steel is better material for the fuelrail!

The corrosive quality is due to the fact that etanol can contain more water and that used to be a problem on older fuel tanks etc.

We used to have a couple of cars that were converted to run on CNG. Worked fine for a long time... Until the catalysts disintegrated and the cylinder heads corroded (the combustion chamber in the head looked like it was smouldering away... Very pourous). Ending in a cloud of smoke and a major engine rebuild...

[mkoesel]

Yes, that stands to reason I suppose. Ethanol, I believe, in general has a higher octane rating than standard petroleum based fuel, so the more of it you use, by that reasoning, the higher octane the blend will achieve. If an engine is built to properly take advantage of that (higher compression, rather than just spark advancement for example), it would naturally be more efficient than one that was not.

I see macadam has basically covered this point in his post as well. His points about corrosiveness are good too. I admit my knowledge is limited here. What I would say, then, is that, building an engine to run on higher concentrations of ethanol may require the use of certain materials which aren't used in general for engines that just run on E15 or lower. It would probably not be a good idea to go testing out E85 blindly or mixing in E85 with your E5-15 just to see what happens.

Originally Posted by mhabs

As far as E85 efficiency, I thought E85 can be well harnessed in turbocharged engines with reasonably high compression ratios, if the engine is specifically built/tuned for E85. Here's something that was tested on a vehicle from now defunct Saab, where more power was acheived with no penalty in efficiency:

http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2...oes-it-quicker

[GOLFFRR]

interesting. makes you wondering seeing how he pulled into the pump on the wrong side. lol

[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by Boss330

The blue handle fuel nozzle IS for E85 (at Statoil gas stations anyway):



Statoil warns against using E85 on a regular car due to the issues associated with etanol on gaskets, fuel lines etc. SAAB used specific fuel system components on their E85 models.

In the US there has been 10% etanol added for a number of years, meaning that US cars might be more compatible with E85? On the other hand I doubt that BMW and other manufacturers choose different material for fuel components for the Euro vs US versions.

GM stopped using different materials in 2005 after no ill effects had been detected from E85.

Maybe the E85 "issues" is just a urban myth? Something for Mythbusters to investigate

Correction: GM found no ill-effects during the warranty period.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by GOLFFRR

interesting. makes you wondering seeing how he pulled into the pump on the wrong side. lol

He was probably all flustered after running from the spy shot paparazzi.

In seriousness, he may have a car with a driver's-side fuel neck for his daily. I'm not sure if that would rule out all BMW's, but perhaps not Mini? I don't know. Or maybe these guys don't make enough to scrape together the funds for a BMW. I think they cost about twice what they do over here, no? For the money, I might choose a Focus ST or something else with more power than a 316d.

[AhsanU]

I severely doubt BMW will ever make a map for E85 fuel.

And if they did.. could you imagine how much they'd charge for that?

[antzcrashing]

I must be missing something, why is it considered an advancement if the bmw can run on e85 cant my e90 run on it without issue? That stuff is all they have at some usa stations

[positiveions]

That's interesting.

[727jbh]

E85 = 8 mpg city/10 mpg highway

[Pentium]

lol It seems he is totally lost!

[jerseygirl]

Originally Posted by M ETT

Here's hoping that the M3 will cope

i dont care about green or ethynol i only care about Power and SPEED.

[Diver]

Most US petrol is now E10. E15 is expected to be rolled out soon. E85 is difficult to find in central Houston.

[135Pats]

people run e20-30 with frequency in their n54/5s, for the most part there havent been any real issues other than maxing trims...if youre tuned for it, you can run more aggressive mixes than those stated above. You dont want to throw a full tank of e85 in, but a modest mixture with pump can add power while smoothing out timing. Its really not that weird or exotic for the test driver to see how the car likes it.