BMW M4 - Sport Auto test ride and interview with Albert Biermann

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by solstice

Is there more subjective comments from the author of this piece? The info from Bierman is interesting and all but it could just as well been held in an office. The reason for a ride along would be to get impressions of sound, acceleration, ride, roll, cabin ambience, quality of materials etc. where is the excitement and guesses of how this car will compare and destroy the competition for years to come etc? I find the lack of such comments concerning. There weren't much of that from the ride alongs that Jason and co. attended earlier either. This is not a new Corolla or something it's a new M3, the best of the best in this category, people who has been in the car should be blown away and not stop raving about it. Doesn't seem to be the case.

My transcript is probably a maximum 50-60% of the text in the article. The journalist and a photographer rides along with Biermann and they describe how he becomes more excited as speed builds and how the car accelerates. They also make comments on the handling being impressive, as far as you can judge that as a passenger.

And I did include the journalists comments on the sound and brute force of the acceleration.

[Boss330]

Updated first post with photos of the article.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by Brosef

it's not so much the redline people are concerned with as it is the torque curve falling off. we know it does fall off (probably starting somewhere around 6,000 RPMs). we know this both from the cartoonish dyno charts BMW provided as well as the torque figure (as an example, if the engine made its claimed peak torque figure, ~370 lb-ft., at 7,000 RPM, the engine would be making 493 hp) .

Sure, that is a different characteristic to the S65, similar to what happened when the F10 M5 came after the V10 of the E60.

Doesn't seem that owners of the F10 M5 complain about the engines power or power delivery (nor the fact it leaves the E60 M5 behind ).

Obviously, the M3 is a different car from the M5 and it will be interesting to see if the S55 is a good match for the M3.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by attila

Well, you have to be careful with CCB brakes. Not all created equal. The porsche PCCB for example (I have it) is a bad choice for track use. MovIT would be very good on the other hand.
I have a feeling the M4 CCB will be closer to porsche specs, meaning the hardened surface on the disk is very thin. It will last on teh street but not on the track. Porsche PCCB will last about 3 times of a decent iron disk for a cost of x6. Plus, pad selection is a problem. Only one pad is available now (for porsche) which is not a race pad. Choose CCB if you are not tracking your car only!! (or take it off and store it for resale like I do on my GT3)

Thanks

[JoeFromPA]

Thanks for uploading pictures. There is something so....right....about seeing the picture with the manual transmission in it.

Every single time I see a picture of an M-series car with a stubby auto sticking out the front (including the e46 m3 SMG) it just looks....off.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Thanks for uploading pictures. There is something so....right....about seeing the picture with the manual transmission in it.

Every single time I see a picture of an M-series car with a stubby auto sticking out the front (including the e46 m3 SMG) it just looks....off.

Thanks

Yes, there is something about a manual transmission in the M3.

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by Jockey

I can't believe people would pass up on this car because of a 300-400 RPM difference in redline.

That's splitting hairs.

If it is a fraction over 7,500 as most reports have made. Difference is ~900 rpm. That will make for very different engine characteristics from the S65.

This turbo M3/M4 will drive very different from the E9x M3. As someone pointed out earlier, what is the point if the power drops off up top like most turbo engines. You will be short shifting anyways.

[paddy335]

Originally Posted by Blipit_

This turbo M3/M4 will drive very different from the E9x M3. As someone pointed out earlier, what is the point if the power drops off up top like most turbo engines. You will be short shifting anyways.

With 560Nm you'll be short-shifting a lot regardless. Which is great for DD or cruising. Hopefully it retains some feral characteristics when you want to really open it up.

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by Boss330

Sure, that is a different characteristic to the S65, similar to what happened when the F10 M5 came after the V10 of the E60.

Doesn't seem that owners of the F10 M5 complain about the engines power or power delivery (nor the fact it leaves the E60 M5 behind ).

Obviously, the M3 is a different car from the M5 and it will be interesting to see if the S55 is a good match for the M3.

Bolded part is key. The M5 is a different car, driven differently than M3 owners. The M5 is a freeway missile, the turbo V8 works very well in that car.

The S65 engine characteristics you mentioned are exactly what makes the M3 an M3 (or at least it use to). A lot of owners track their M3's, smooth predictable power delivery is key. The S65 has that in spades. Honestly the S65 is one the best engines I have ever enjoyed at the track.

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by paddy335

With 560Nm you'll be short-shifting a lot regardless. Which is great for DD or cruising. Hopefully it retains some feral characteristics when you want to really open it up.

Yeah, I think the next gen M3/M4 will be great for daily driving. A lot better at those stop light blasts.

BMW will lose some die hard track guys but I think they will pick up double with more casual M-branders.

[solstice]

And obviously the current M5 owners bought their cars since they really enjoy the S63TU power delivery so why would they complain? I've driven both the E60 M5 and the F10 M5 and for me there is no contest. The E60 M5 might have some major flaws as the rough SMG but it is such an exciting and cool car. I love the E60 M5 and would not hesitate to buy one if they were still manufactured and while I can appreciate what a superb executive missile the F10 M5 is it lacks IMO the excitement and directness of the E60. It remains to be seen if the F80 will feel similar vs the E90 M3, I hope not since then I will have to look elsewhere for my next ride.

[Thurman Murch]

I have both a S65 in my M3 MDCT and a N55 in my daily driver '14 335i msport dhp mppk mpe + manual.

At first I was initially disappointed with the N55 but I mean it had like 5 miles on it. Now that it is starting to break in this car is really awesome. With the '14 they fixed the steering. The manual transmission the one from the 1M is awesome (dry sump / carbon 1-2 synchros). I have drifted the 335i with ease and the EPS steering allows more freedom in this manuever.

I'll admit that at first I would recommend someone to get the xdrive on the F3x to get the hydraulic steering but the '14 model with dhp + vss is not true hydraulic but close enough now to make me like it enough.

At first I also thought they went cheaper materials and cost savings on a lot of the F3x chassis. But when you get acquainted with it you can tell the engineers tried to remove a lot of weight where they could. I know they use non-gobain windows (like pilkington) on lower end models and stamped steel but whatever.

I have plenty of power in the mid range of the N55 that I don't need to go that high, but taking the oversquare architecture into account I have a feeling this S55 will just pull and pull harder. Too bad it's not built in the M engine factory with bespoke mechanisms - if this frees room for a lihium battery and more CF well shows us the biz.

I have no doubts now that this next M version will be really awesome and will be even better than the outgoing E9x in some manners. I would still keep the S65 and have both if you can or want to afford it.

I think for some the S65 E9x M car will be the ideal car... but I think it would be cool to get the base F8x model with manual and no lux/tech gadgets.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by Blipit_

If it is a fraction over 7,500 as most reports have made. Difference is ~900 rpm. That will make for very different engine characteristics from the S65.

This turbo M3/M4 will drive very different from the E9x M3. As someone pointed out earlier, what is the point if the power drops off up top like most turbo engines. You will be short shifting anyways.

Will be interesting to find out. The reporter here writes that the "tach needle has left 7500rpm a long time ago". That indicates that it actually revs quite a bit past 7500rpm and that it actually can be driven that way.

The quote on rev needle past 7500rpm is made in a context where Biermann "laughingly comments that no M engine should shy away from high rpms" (while the rev needle has left 7500rpm behind a long time ago).

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by Thurman Murch

I think for some the S65 E9x M car will be the ideal car... but I think it would be cool to get the base F8x model with manual and no lux/tech gadgets.

That's what I'm personally counting on - a very basic M3, possibly euro delivery.

They are including trick bits like a CF driveshaft in the base car. How many overpriced options do I really need with rotating-mass reductions like that that most can only dream of...?

[BMW M3 CRT]

Originally Posted by Boss330

BTW, where was the Biermann comments you mentioned regarding saving money on the engine (that I had left out)?

" "Bei der Konzeption des Fahrzeuges war es entscheidend, möglichst viele Neuentwicklungen im Konzernverbund zu realisieren, um uns den finanziellen Spielraum für weitere kostenintensive Maßnahmen zur Gewichtsreduktion zu schaffen", erklärt der Entwicklungschef. Dazu trägt maßgeblich der Motor bei, der nun nicht mehr im Sondermotorenbau im Werk München, sondern auf der normalen Produktionslinie in Steyr gefertigt wird."

If you take a close look at the second article, about the E92M3 and the S65 you would found and nice pic showing which engine the Sport Auto would prefer.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by BMW M3 CRT

" "Bei der Konzeption des Fahrzeuges war es entscheidend, möglichst viele Neuentwicklungen im Konzernverbund zu realisieren, um uns den finanziellen Spielraum für weitere kostenintensive Maßnahmen zur Gewichtsreduktion zu schaffen", erklärt der Entwicklungschef. Dazu trägt maßgeblich der Motor bei, der nun nicht mehr im Sondermotorenbau im Werk München, sondern auf der normalen Produktionslinie in Steyr gefertigt wird."

If you take a close look at the second article, about the E92M3 and the S65 you would found and nice pic showing which engine the Sport Auto would prefer.

Thank you

I understand the comment on the engine to be a comment related to production costs, is that a correct understanding of the text? (since you are German and probably get the meaning of the sentence better than I do).

And you refer to the picture where they say they will miss the S65, right? Sure the S55 will be a quite different engine and just as the F10 V8 differs from the E60 V10 so will the S55 from the S65. The sound and induction noise will be different.

It's not uncommon to have a good bye article, just see the thread about how Autosport says good bye to the V8 in Formula 1 and how some concerns regarding the V6 are raised there: http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=915317

[Boss330]

Just came over this video of Chris Harris testing the F10 M5 (was a recommended video for me on Youtube now). Thought it quite interesting on how he compares it with the E60... Seems like some of the same concerns that is voiced here over a turbo engined M car is addressed by Chris Harris, on the M5 at least.

[Sean@PSI]

The excitement builds.

[clbmw]

I'd rather it was 3kg heavier and I went on a diet

[conradb]

Will the F80 M3 also have a CF drive shaft?

[lasovan]

Originally Posted by mpower3330

Anybody else annoyed about the S55 being assembled on the regular production line in Steyr instead of the special engine factory?

yes, me.

[Thurman Murch]

If you want to hear the S55 just roll down the windows. You will hear more spool up, more blow off and more exhaust resonance that way especially in sport+ - especially when you get some clicks on the clock. Just drive it in sport+ mode. I noticed on this new gen the exhaust is more quiet at idle.

I feel that with the F3x more soundproofing and less drag causes the car to feel quite quiet but I can still feel the spool and exhaust with the windows up. Now the grey area is how quiet will the F8x be from the inside? I think this is where BMW can really deliver the experience.

I admit I went running from F10 M5 back to E92 M3 but driving the F30 for a couple weeks I have good feelings about the F8x.

I have a feeling this car will eat oil and tires too and if driven properly will not see that great of improvement gas mileage. Be absolutley sure you want to get rid of your S65 before doing so.