2015 Mustang benchmarked against outgoing M3. Already trailing the upcoming M4?

[basscadet]

Originally Posted by Ezio

but when i go sit in they feel unbelievably cheap. give the feeling of all motor type of car. plus mustangs overpopulate the road with base models.

Ford really needs to go to more effort to distinguish the appearances of the GT vs the V6. The reason I had to get rid of my '11 GT after 9 months was that it looks like a Tire Rack visit away (and a 5.0 badge) from a $23k high school girl's car.

If they had an aggressive-looking GT 350 available at launch with DCT then I might be interested, but for now it's still the M3 for me.

[Remonster]

Originally Posted by basscadet

The GT is far more capable than the 335i and is more of a performance match for the M3. Cost doesn't really factor here. If the GT 350 were available yet, that's surely what we would compare with the M3 but the results would not be pretty for the M3.



I cancelled my '11 M3 lease deal at the last moment after I test drove an '11 GT out of guilt. I ended up buying the Mustang.

I agree with everything you have said about the sloppy GT handling but I would say that 90% of the slop in the Mustang can be eliminated with very minor suspension modifications. Koni yellows and sport springs made gigantic improvements to the way the car felt. Almost to the point that it is criminal Ford did not include such a suspension as factory. The car was quite literally transformed in terms of handling, much more buttoned-down and M3-like. Still, the live axle was a pain in the ass and ultimately I had to get rid of the car.

The core problems of the Mustang were not the performance or interior (which isn't THAT bad), it was the fact that in the end it is a Mustang, they are a dime-a-dozen, and the retro styling made me just hate to have to look at it.

If you take even 1/4 of the money saved vs an M3 and put it into tightening up the handling and braking, you'd really have something. The brakes themselves are fine but I found it difficult to transition from hard braking to turn-in, possibly because the suspension and the chassis it's bolted to is so soft. I really didn't want my post to sound like it was criticizing the Mustang, you get a TON of car for the money. I just think it's clear where the extra money is going in the M3 so I feel these comparisons are ridiculous. The interior on the fifth gen Mustang really bothered me but the pictures of the new one look great. I was HUGELY surprised by the interior quality on the current Ford Focus, I went to test the ST with a friend of mine and I thought the leather felt a lot nicer than the Dakota Leather you get in standard BMWs, the steering and shifter action was very nice, pedals gave good feedback, the Recaro seats were excellent. That Focus ST really made me hopeful that Ford will hit this new Mustang out of the park and if the GT stays under $35,000 it would probably become my favorite car in that price range.

[basscadet]

Originally Posted by Alumac

Not because 'American cars are gud in straight, not gud in corner.' Which is absolute bullshit today.

But how else would we so easily identify people who are nothing more than badge-whores on this forum?

[swanson]

[mkoesel]

My gut tells me that the M4 will have a very tough time putting distance between itself and the Mustang GT on a track. We don't know how the F8x will compare in performance to the E9x yet, but certainly from the preliminary information we have now it is not going to be such a huge leap in performance such that it will leave the rest of the industry with absolutely no hope of competing. When you consider that the outgoing Boss Mustang was outperforming the E9x M3 in tests, and Ford has said the new Mustang GT has now been able to best the Boss, its clear that - whatever the car was benchmarked against - it has gotten a bump in performance as well. In the end we are talking about cars with similar power, similar weight, and similar handling after all, this new Mustang GT and new M4.

On the styling topic, I am actually a bit disappointed that the styling of the new Mustang is evolutionarily close to the outgoing model. I was hoping for a clean slate approach. I was also hoping for a smaller footprint (i.e. smaller overhangs this time around). But it is not a bad looking car by any stretch - its actually quite good looking as is the model it replaces.

What the car lacks though is DCT, although they do have paddle shift now. But if Ford were to build one with DCT and throw in a higher revving Roadrunner V8 (the old one hit 7500 RPM, say they hit 8000RPM this time) it starts to get real tempting. That being said, I think the next "C63" will be tempting too, even if it has neither the DCT (it probably won't, but might) nor the high revving V8 (it definitely won't have that). Not sure why I need hold the Mustang to higher standards then; I suppose there is just that certain degree of snobbery I possess that causes that double standard. What can I say, I am not perfect.

[sycd]

I had a Mustang and E92 M3, and I'll be cross-shopping the new Mustang and new M3/M4.

From my experience the M3 was a better machine, but the Mustang was a lot more fun to own. The M3 had a few nasty rattles since new, my Mustang had none. The Mustang had a lot more options for aftermarket upgrades, and for a lot cheaper. The fact that the M3/M4 is twice the price is also not negligible.

What keeps me interested in the new M3 is the four door option, being a dad. On the other hand my kid loved the Mustang but never cared about the M3. I also have to do a lot of driving at 5000 ft and above, and at that altitude, the new M3/M4 should drive circles around a naturally aspirated Mustang 5.0.

[Randy M]

I do wish they had designed the car with the '69-'70 side window. It would have looked so much better and a natural progression from the last model:

[JoeFromPA]

The last Mustang I was in had a really crappy interior for even the mid 20k's....but I'll reserve judgement on the new one. The last c6 I was in had a terrible interior too, but the c7 is great. Let's see how Ford does.

It also helps that the F30, at least, has some pretty obvious poor interior materials. We'll see if they are improved when the base-price doubles in the m3.

[S65V8]

A definitive money shot of the new stang, it looks so good from this angle. It's easy to see how this will morph into a more aggressive GT500 down the road.

Originally Posted by Rated R

The rear of the car in this shot has a bit of 911 in it:

[starbai]

Originally Posted by XtoM

Looks nice but it's no comparison to either of it's benchmarking cars, it's a fast car but not a sports car, muscle cars don't cut it unless you live on a drag strip.

I'm sorry... do you have some sort of special access that has enabled you to drive the 2015 Mustang? If not, I'd advice not to count it out till you do. Maybe it will be all business as usual... but Ford seems to think that this will be a very, non-Mustang-like Mustang. and with an IRS I'm inclined to at least keep an open mind.

[hyperboost]

the look doesnt do it for me...

[swanson]

[Minator]

You know I have loved BMW cars for a long time because of the special M engines, the balanced power and handling...I just think the new M3/M4 is not enough if what we have heard is true..it needed a game changer option like an electric third turbo..these domestics are getting way too close...BTW the new Z28 is gooing to kick everyones stock ass at the track in the under $100k market!

[duolab]

I've seen the car in person and I'll just say that the pictures don't do it justice. I've always been a BMW diehard and I must say when I saw the car it was obvious Ford injected some Euro flair to it while keeping its muscle car heritage. The car just looks much more planted than the current one. Same length as the current one but looks much more nimble. I'm excited to test drive the V8. For those of us who dream of owning an M3 but can't afford it, the Mustang is a very strong option.

[BimmerQuest]

As a caveat to the comments below, I'll likely end up with a German sports car. But some of the comments here are just insane. People - the BASE GT gets an all new suspension, new brakes, new weight distribution, and outperforms the Boss 302. Nobody here has even sat in an S550 let alone driven one. Performance packs, GT350, who knows...

Originally Posted by chicochico

I just had a newer Mustang ecoboost V6 for a few days as a rental.

This car doesn't exist - "Mustang ecoboost V6". You drove a base NA mustang.

Originally Posted by dhirm5

This is a meaningless comparison. Noone in their right mind cross shops an M3/M4 and a Mustang. The comparison can only be used for Mustang people to make themselves look/feel better. M3/M4 buyers have no skin in this game - it's irrelevant.

I'm left handed and therefore clearly in my right mind while cross shopping the M3/M4, C7, RS5, AMG 63, and S550. As a potential M3/M4 buyer I certainly have skin in the game: the value of a dollar.

Originally Posted by SROC5

I have a feeling BMW is in for a rude awakening in 2014. This stang I have to admit looks pretty good (especially once it comes in Seca or 500 versions), and if they really benched it against a M or 911, then the Americans would make it lighter, more agile, and behave like a euro car with improved interior materials / styling to boot - I would imagine the RING numbers will be touted alot more this time around to just show how well this car performs. BMW needs to do something surprising with the M3/M4 to retain its status as the best all around GT sports car for sub $80k. If it's too close to C7Z51 and '14 Stang 5.0, then people might just say screw it, I'd rather save $20k.

I'm feeling this "save $20k" thing.

Originally Posted by wilstave

I agree with this. I don't remember the last American car I sat in that didn't make me wish I was back in my bimmer

Have you sat in the C7?

Originally Posted by mkoesel

When you consider that the outgoing Boss Mustang was outperforming the E9x M3 in tests, and Ford has said the new Mustang GT has now been able to best the Boss, its clear that - whatever the car was benchmarked against - it has gotten a bump in performance as well. In the end we are talking about cars with similar power, similar weight, and similar handling after all, this new Mustang GT and new M4.

This.

Originally Posted by mkoesel

On the styling topic, I am actually a bit disappointed that the styling of the new Mustang is evolutionarily close to the outgoing model. I was hoping for a clean slate approach. I was also hoping for a smaller footprint (i.e. smaller overhangs this time around). But it is not a bad looking car by any stretch - its actually quite good looking as is the model it replaces.

Based on the information that has come out over the past two days, it appears that the original styling was heavily euro focused. But as late as a year ago they changed course towards a more heritage focused styling with modern cues. Too bad really, I much preferred the first direction. The original C&D render clearly has the same spoiler shape "design language" of the newly revealed GT. No way that was just a guess, but likely based on the real first version. Oh well..."pony cars".

Originally Posted by sycd

I had a Mustang and E92 M3, and I'll be cross-shopping the new Mustang and new M3/M4.

From my experience the M3 was a better machine, but the Mustang was a lot more fun to own. The M3 had a few nasty rattles since new, my Mustang had none. The Mustang had a lot more options for aftermarket upgrades, and for a lot cheaper. The fact that the M3/M4 is twice the price is also not negligible.

What keeps me interested in the new M3 is the four door option, being a dad. On the other hand my kid loved the Mustang but never cared about the M3. I also have to do a lot of driving at 5000 ft and above, and at that altitude, the new M3/M4 should drive circles around a naturally aspirated Mustang 5.0.

I'm with you - live a mile high and have kids. The M3 is still on the list primarily for those reasons. But the new 4 banger twin scroll turbo Mustang is rumored to be a tuners dream (stock at 300/300). Clearly not going to compete with an M, but for a fun daily driver at altitude?

[starbai]

Originally Posted by swanson

is there anychance you have a higher res version of this???

[swanson]

Originally Posted by starbai

is there anychance you have a higher res version of this???

I wish I did. I got it off of svtperformance.com. Looks great.

[jtappan]

Handling IS skidpad and lap times, regardless of how the car feels as you're doing it. Either the car can get around the corners fast enough, or it can't - everything else is irrelevant IMO.

How a car "feels" at the limit effects your confidence. If it "scares" you then you sure as heck aren't going to push it. This effects your lap times. Cruising around town and racing at stop lights is never going to show you these tendencies. Bad traits usually manifest themselves mid-corner at 75+ MPH. The good car allows you to keep your foot planted, the bad one makes you pucker up.

Having said that I think the new Mustang looks good and from the performance specs it should be quite fast. I bought my first Ford product ever earlier this year (2013 Explorer Limited) and I must say I am very impressed with it. Who knows how I will feel about it in 2-3 years, but so far so good.

I

[conradb]

Originally Posted by XtoM

Looks nice but it's no comparison to either of it's benchmarking cars, it's a fast car but not a sports car, muscle cars don't cut it unless you live on a drag strip.

lol you reviewing cars from 10 years ago still?

[Randy M]

Future review very well could be:

"The 2015 Mustang GT bests the M4 in every performance category, it's fit, finish and materials used are on par with the BMW, and all for $25K less than the overpriced Bavarian"

The M4 better be a game changer as this Mustang looks like it is.

[conradb]

Originally Posted by Remonster

The current Mustang can keep up with an M3, but the handling is not even close. Bear in mind that there's a LOT more to handling than skidpad numbers and lap times, I've driven every year of the fifth gen Mustang (2005-2013) and pretty much every engine they offer (3.7 V6, 4.6 V8, 5.0 V8, a couple of the earlier GT500s) and they all have basically the same handling characteristics; very lazy steering with almost no feel, very soft springs and dampers, tons of rubber in the suspension, etc. They're just sloppy cars, you can throw them into a corner and they will generate enough grip to go through very quickly but you don't feel the road at all and can't really tell how close you are to the limit. That live rear axle (which is gone now) isn't as bad as some say but it still has some very annoying characteristics, chief among them is the huge weight of the rear diff and axle hanging off of the suspension which means that even though the suspension is very soft, it still crashes and makes the body wobble when you hit a bump and hitting a bump mid-corner makes the whole car bounce. The earlier fifth gen GTs with the 4.6 were worse than the 5.0s, in the last few years Ford started offering the track pack and a couple other options that went a long way towards improving the way the Mustang drove. The 2013 GT Track Pack I drove was pretty good as long as the road was fairly smooth.

They're definitely not bad cars, I think the current 5.0 GT is one of the most fun cars you can get for the money and the motor is just epic but it has some serious handling issues. It looks like Ford is very serious with this new car, though. I can't wait to try it out.

I swear it's as though you have never seen this test:

I own an E92 M3, and I love it, but I'm realistic when I say the Mustang GT is on par with performance against the M3. The only thing I wish the Mustang had was a DCT. I've driven the new 2014 Mustang. It doesn't quite have the tight finesse in the steering, but that's a minor fault.

[basscadet]

Here are pictures of the car with the "Track Package". This looks much better. I'm starting to warm up to the looks...and YES, Recaros are available.