Why BMW design matters

[M3JetPilot]

Over time people assign emotions, experiences, and expectations to a product. Imagine going to Tiffany's and they've done away with the Tiffany Blue Box. Or going to Chick-fil-a and realizing they had replaced all their chicken with sea food. New Coke is the most famous example of how a significant product change from an iconic brand can have unexpected consequences. Coca-Cola didn't just change a drink formula, they altered people's memories of their product. That is exactly what BMW is doing with their new design direction.

Would people get use to no more Tiffany Blue? Probably. Would people buy sea food from Chick-fil-a? Yes. But the eventual success of any particular change misses the point. Any significant change to an iconic brand creates a dividing line in the mind of the customer. That Blue Tiffany Box you got for your wife? You can't repeat that memory when you want to buy your daughter a graduation gift. Taking your kids to Chick-fil-a for the nugget meal? That would be gone. Could new experiences and memories be built? Yes, but the question becomes why would a company want to make that level of change when they already have an iconic customer experience?

Regardless of the level of success of BMW's new designs, the reality is the BMW experience is changing. For many of us the expectation of what a BMW M car should be has permanently been altered. As someone who loves the ultimate driving machine, I very much want BMW to be successful. I hope they understand that this isn't just about design.

[Slowphiveo]

Originally Posted by M3JetPilot

Over time people assign emotions, experiences, and expectations to a product. Imagine going to Tiffany's and they've done away with the Tiffany Blue Box. Or going to Chick-fil-a and realizing they had replaced all their chicken with sea food. New Coke is the most famous example of how a significant product change from an iconic brand can have unexpected consequences. Coca-Cola didn't just change a drink formula, they altered people's memories of their product. That is exactly what BMW is doing with their new design direction.

Would people get use to no more Tiffany Blue? Probably. Would people buy sea food from Chick-fil-a? Yes. But the eventual success of any particular change misses the point. Any significant change to an iconic brand creates a dividing line in the mind of the customer. That Blue Tiffany Box you got for your wife? You can't repeat that memory when you want to buy your daughter a graduation gift. Taking your kids to Chick-fil-a for the nugget meal? That would be gone. Could new experiences and memories be built? Yes, but the question becomes why would a company want to make that level of change when they already have an iconic customer experience?

Regardless of the level of success of BMW's new designs, the reality is the BMW experience is changing. For many of us the expectation of what a BMW M car should be has permanently been altered. As someone who loves the ultimate driving machine, I very much want BMW to be successful. I hope they understand that this isn't just about design.

I wholeheartedly agree with everything you said. The issue is the world has gotten bigger and BMW is trying to please their newest, most cash/credit flushed customer base: China. The West and specifically the US, now play second fiddle to China as far as sales go. What China wants, China gets. They apparently are the major driver behind this design language and are eating it up. While nostalgia and experience are great, BMW only gives a hoot about its bottom line.

[M3JetPilot]

From a recent article in MarketWatch, "Chinese car buyers adore cars with chrome grilles, the more garish and gothic the better…"It is all about face," said David Goggins, an executive with FAW-Volkswagen, one of the larger joint ventures between Western car makers and the Chinese. "It is about how you show off."

This is the opposite of why I like BMW. I'm not criticizing those who like garish styling, it just isn't the word I would have used to describe BMW. I like the reserved styling and clean lines. That type of design is timeless. This isn't.

[M3JetPilot]

Classic designs like this is what puts you in the history books as a car designer. Not responding to momentary trends and fads.

[JagR2611]

Originally Posted by M3JetPilot

Over time people assign emotions, experiences, and expectations to a product. Imagine going to Tiffany's and they've done away with the Tiffany Blue Box. Or going to Chick-fil-a and realizing they had replaced all their chicken with sea food. New Coke is the most famous example of how a significant product change from an iconic brand can have unexpected consequences. Coca-Cola didn't just change a drink formula, they altered people's memories of their product. That is exactly what BMW is doing with their new design direction.

Would people get use to no more Tiffany Blue? Probably. Would people buy sea food from Chick-fil-a? Yes. But the eventual success of any particular change misses the point. Any significant change to an iconic brand creates a dividing line in the mind of the customer. That Blue Tiffany Box you got for your wife? You can't repeat that memory when you want to buy your daughter a graduation gift. Taking your kids to Chick-fil-a for the nugget meal? That would be gone. Could new experiences and memories be built? Yes, but the question becomes why would a company want to make that level of change when they already have an iconic customer experience?

Regardless of the level of success of BMW's new designs, the reality is the BMW experience is changing. For many of us the expectation of what a BMW M car should be has permanently been altered. As someone who loves the ultimate driving machine, I very much want BMW to be successful. I hope they understand that this isn't just about design.

Originally Posted by M3JetPilot

Over time people assign emotions, experiences, and expectations to a product. Imagine going to Tiffany's and they've done away with the Tiffany Blue Box. Or going to Chick-fil-a and realizing they had replaced all their chicken with sea food. New Coke is the most famous example of how a significant product change from an iconic brand can have unexpected consequences. Coca-Cola didn't just change a drink formula, they altered people's memories of their product. That is exactly what BMW is doing with their new design direction.

Would people get use to no more Tiffany Blue? Probably. Would people buy sea food from Chick-fil-a? Yes. But the eventual success of any particular change misses the point. Any significant change to an iconic brand creates a dividing line in the mind of the customer. That Blue Tiffany Box you got for your wife? You can't repeat that memory when you want to buy your daughter a graduation gift. Taking your kids to Chick-fil-a for the nugget meal? That would be gone. Could new experiences and memories be built? Yes, but the question becomes why would a company want to make that level of change when they already have an iconic customer experience?

Regardless of the level of success of BMW's new designs, the reality is the BMW experience is changing. For many of us the expectation of what a BMW M car should be has permanently been altered. As someone who loves the ultimate driving machine, I very much want BMW to be successful. I hope they understand that this isn't just about design.

Very thoughtful & well said.

[M3JetPilot]

Thank you.

[Budget M3]

While I agree with the thoughts and sentiments expressed here, I think BMW could just as easily have created a separate sub-brand to accommodate the design language that the Chinese market desires without undermining their previous valuable branding. They are alienating the enthusiast customer base that has helped them to establish the brand in the first place. A Maybach-like 7-series with a gargantuan grill or an M-version of the X5 or X7 with similar would do just fine and would probably sell like hotcakes in that intended market. IMHO, the iconic M3 with a twin-coffin, beaver-toothed, pig snout is a big mistake.

[M3JetPilot]

Originally Posted by Budget M3

While I agree with the thoughts and sentiments expressed here, I think BMW could just as easily have created a separate sub-brand to accommodate the design language that the Chinese market desires without undermining their previous valuable branding. They are alienating the enthusiast customer base that has helped them to establish the brand in the first place. A Maybach-like 7-series with a gargantuan grill or an M-version of the X5 or X7 with similar would do just fine and would probably sell like hotcakes in that intended market. IMHO, the iconic M3 with a twin-coffin, beaver-toothed, pig snout is a big mistake.

I completely agree. I think BMW is making a huge mistake for short term gain. Even though I disagree with their current design direction, I have no desire to bash BMW or meme their cars. I still love the brand. If they put these design changes on all their cars I will just hope for the fad to fade. I'm saddened BMW has become so hard headed about what is an obvious error but my hope is there will always be a BMW I can like enough to drive.

[TractionControlDelete]

Originally Posted by M3JetPilot

From a recent article in MarketWatch, "Chinese car buyers adore cars with chrome grilles, the more garish and gothic the better…"It is all about face," said David Goggins, an executive with FAW-Volkswagen, one of the larger joint ventures between Western car makers and the Chinese. "It is about how you show off."

This is the opposite of why I like BMW. I'm not criticizing those who like garish styling, it just isn't the word I would have used to describe BMW. I like the reserved styling and clean lines. That type of design is timeless. This isn't.

Wow, this puts things in context

[TractionControlDelete]

Originally Posted by Budget M3

While I agree with the thoughts and sentiments expressed here, I think BMW could just as easily have created a separate sub-brand to accommodate the design language that the Chinese market desires without undermining their previous valuable branding. They are alienating the enthusiast customer base that has helped them to establish the brand in the first place. A Maybach-like 7-series with a gargantuan grill or an M-version of the X5 or X7 with similar would do just fine and would probably sell like hotcakes in that intended market. IMHO, the iconic M3 with a twin-coffin, beaver-toothed, pig snout is a big mistake.

Great point re: cars targeted to the market. The interesting part about it all is that they are tailoring for a prospective market meanwhile the US is CURRENTLY a bigger market for ///M cars. Needless to say, I'm confused why they'd disappoint a known customer base who've historically put their money where their mouth is. I do understand why they're being seemingly hardheaded about it though because cars generally take 7 years to develop - it's not too easy to make a make a u-turn at the last minute.

Question for you all: What has the European reaction been to the design language changes? (Particularly interested in what actual Germans think, if you happen to have any relevant articles/reviews handy)

[M3JetPilot]

Another thing to consider is the fact that there are cars that everyone agrees didn't win the design contest. It doesn't matter if it's an everyday car or a super car, big grill or small, it's about proportion, continuity, and balance. There is science to back this up. When design exaggerates an aspect of a car in order to stand out, it invariably ends badly. I would say BMW is very close to that line at the very least with the new M cars, if not over it. While there is always a group of people who will like a car just because everyone else doesn't, that still doesn't negate the fact some cars are designed badly. Time will tell but does anyone, including those buying the new M, really think we will look back on these cars with the same admiration as a Shelby Cobra or Porsche 911? Or will they join the design disasters these cars were?

[jmg]

I was one of the biggest detractors of the new design language, but after a long period of adjustment, almost a year, the G80, while it looks strikingly different than the F80, just looks updated and newer with a forward design language. Is that better? Well, that's subjective. I know there are are certain iconic characteristics like the blue Tiffany's box, and I don't debate that. I just wonder where that line is drawn. The kidney grills are iconic. They just made them bigger. Is that the same thing as changing the color of the Tiffany's box?

Either way, BMW will do what BMW needs to do to capture the markets they need to stay in business. This isn't the first time design language has been controversial, remember the Bangle era? Unless you are a board member or majority stock holder, there is little we can do except vote with our wallets, hold on to the cars we do like, or look up and say "what's next?". Whatever design language BMW evolves to, the legacy vehicles are still there, you can keep your E92, F80 etc and capture what that particular moment in time managed to produce, it only goes away if you sell it. Meanwhile a new audience with new tastes can enjoy a new product with a design language more akin to their tastes. The market will decide if it's a success or not, and either way, kudos to BMW for being bold and trying something risky. It's not for everyone, but to those caught in the emotional net that BMW has cast, ever how small it turns out to be, it will be that much more iconic and meaningful.

As far as not only being about design, thankfully I think BMW realizes that. What won me over to the G8X was that, overall, is it's an improvement on the outgoing model. Despite the automatic transmission, increased size, and slight weight gain, they managed to develop a car that is both faster, more powerful, gives a more direct driving experience, and takes a step in the right direction as far as steering feel and smooth power delivery. Bonus points for keeping the 6MT and bonus points for introducing something new and exciting for the M3/4–AWD–probably the last step in finally putting the competition to rest. Better yet, the RWD 6MT is still available for the purists!

[jmg]

Originally Posted by M3JetPilot

Classic designs like this is what puts you in the history books as a car designer. Not responding to momentary trends and fads.

Interestingly, the Shelby Cobra was basically an AC Ace, designed by John Tojerio. The design was very much in line with the look of the time, a trend, that includes the Jaguar Type D, Ferrari 166 etc. Check out the Cunningham C2-R and Cunningham C4-R:



Check out that GRILL!!! The Shelby Cobra was very much a product of trends and fads.

[M3JetPilot]

jmg, I really appreciate the well thought out responses. The one question I would ask you and others who would make similar arguments would be this. In all honesty, and being as objective as we possibly can be, do you really think the new design direction will become as iconic as what BMW already has? Or will it become a forgettable attempt at a new direction like the Bangle era trunk. Much of that specific design gradually fading from informing future BMW cars.

Anyone who logically looks at this has to admit that the trend towards larger and larger grills has a limit. That being the front end of any car. Does BMW eventually cave to the memes and make the front end one big grill? Toyota already has, and I hope we can all agree the Avalon is a joke. Can we agree that would not be a good design direction? If so then at some point the "big grill" fad has to balance out, which means smaller grills at some point. This trend will eventually fade, especially considering that this design change is attempting to redraw the most recognizable part of a BMW. At some point in grill size and shape a car becomes just another Avalon.

I agree BMW has been here before. In describing the old 7 series Bangle said it "just didn't have the presence to be noticed". Bangle argued that in key growth markets, such as China and the rest of Asia, "our competitors were dominating". And in regards to his detractors he said, "whenever you move ahead, you leave some people behind". Sound familiar? It's the argument of a person who realizes they've made a mistake but has to move forward because the car is in production. Not to mention the argument that says you have to lose customers to gain customers is idiotic.

Over time this fad, like all fads, will die. And we will all look back and wonder what were we thinking. Unlike the AC Cobra, which was influenced by several classic and still admired cars, the big grill craze is nothing more than an attempt to appeal to those who want to be pretentious. This isn't BMW being bold and taking a risk, it's simply marketing. That's what's so sad about it. This isn't great designers spending years coming up with a classic design. It's just a company trying to make a buck. Perhaps that's all any car company is but I always hoped BMW was slightly better. Maybe that hope was misplaced.

[M3JetPilot]

Originally Posted by jmg

Interestingly, the Shelby Cobra was basically an AC Ace, designed by John Tojerio. The design was very much in line with the look of the time, a trend, that includes the Jaguar Type D, Ferrari 166 etc. Check out the Cunningham C2-R and Cunningham C4-R:



Check out that GRILL!!! The Shelby Cobra was very much a product of trends and fads.

The grill on the car you pictured is proportional and fits the car's overall design. Time has proven that conclusion. Will time reach the same conclusion for the new BMW grill? I think that is highly doubtful. The challenge with any design is to do something truly original. 99% of the time it's likely that design has been tried before. For example, the BMW M performance parts showcase. BMW is trying a design that was used on the 1961 DeSoto. A design of diagonally placed circles that was described as "jarringly strange" yet BMW thinks they can do better. It's like BMW is being different just to be different. That is never a good strategy.

[Redacre]

I really like how you said this and it made me think a lot about my other favorite car brand and their design language: Porsche. The 911 has evolved steadily over a much longer amount of time than the M3, but you can still line up an old Carrera next to a new one and there isn't a second of doubt that they come from the same brand.



Driving the other day I pointed out the new G80 M3 on the road to my wife and she thought it was a Japanese or Korean car.

[M3JetPilot]

Originally Posted by Redacre

I really like how you said this and it made me think a lot about my other favorite car brand and their design language: Porsche. The 911 has evolved steadily over a much longer amount of time than the M3, but you can still line up an old Carrera next to a new one and there isn't a second of doubt that they come from the same brand.



Driving the other day I pointed out the new G80 M3 on the road to my wife and she thought it was a Japanese or Korean car.

This is precisely my point. If Porsche squared off their design and made their cars boxy, would we describe them as being bold and willing to take a risk? No. They would be losing the very thing that makes a Porsche a Porsche. They don't need to improve their foundational design philosophy. They would be stupid to do so because they would become unrecognizable. BMW, in its attempt to stand out, is instead making their cars look like every other insane manufacture slapping massive grills on their cars. It's nonsensical.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by M3JetPilot

The grill on the car you pictured is proportional and fits the car's overall design. Time has proven that conclusion. Will time reach the same conclusion for the new BMW grill? I think that is highly doubtful. The challenge with any design is to do something truly original. 99% of the time it's likely that design has been tried before. For example, the BMW M performance parts showcase. BMW is trying a design that was used on the 1961 DeSoto. A design of diagonally placed circles that was described as "jarringly strange" yet BMW thinks they can do better. It's like BMW is being different just to be different. That is never a good strategy.

I think you misunderstood my post but it's my fault. I only meant to bring up the grill size as a coincidental similarity with the G8X grill. The point I was trying to make is that the Shelby Cobra design that you used as an example of being unique and not following a trendor fad, is actually a car that was following a trend or fad. Therefore your stipulation that designs shouldn't follow a trend or fad doesn't really hold water.

I'm not sure being different for the sake of being different is "never" a good strategy when you just said "The challenge with any design is to do something truly original". How does one be original without being different? If being different for its own sake is bad, then for what sake should it be different for? If it's aesthetics, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and subjective beauty can't really be beholden to objective qualifications ie it has to be different but not for the sake of being different, it can't follow a trend or fad, or it has to be original-One might even argue that BMW's attempt to be original was to have a disproportionally large grill thereby satisfying your objective qualification. Did is subjectively create something beautiful in your eyes? Apparently not. So just being original isn't really a valid qualifier.

"Good artists borrow, great artists steal" holds true. Regardless of being great or good, or if this can be taken as as a critique or revelation, it's interesting that this quote is attributed to Picasso, who was prolific with DISPROPORTION and ASYMMETRY.

[zamboni]

Originally Posted by Redacre

I really like how you said this and it made me think a lot about my other favorite car brand and their design language: Porsche. The 911 has evolved steadily over a much longer amount of time than the M3, but you can still line up an old Carrera next to a new one and there isn't a second of doubt that they come from the same brand.



Driving the other day I pointed out the new G80 M3 on the road to my wife and she thought it was a Japanese or Korean car.

Completely agreed once you spot a 911 you can tell it's a Porsche, my problem is the new design group totally destroy the iconic M3 design not to mention no more DCT offer on current M models. The M Performance kit is hideous including the exhaust, Porsche & Ferrari still keeping the analog gaugae design on center dash board.

[M3JetPilot]

jmg, we might be saying similar things but in different ways. Much of what you say I don't necessarily disagree with. I agree that trends and fads are followed and influence others. We still have to ask the question if the current trend/fad in grill size has staying power. Will we look back on today's grills with the same admiration as the AC Cobra? As well, I would argue that once a brand has been established it's primary job is to remain true to the brand. BMW has something as close to original and good in many of its designs up until the big grill. Do they really think they can improve on that? This takes us back to my original post. If BMW has an iconic and recognizable brand then why should it follow any trend or fad? That's my point about change for changes sake. Once you have something original, the change you make isn't likely to be more original. That's why Porsche designs the way it does. BMW should do the same. Just because something is old and the same over a long period of time doesn't mean it isn't original. That is a primary flaw in the thinking of BMW designers today.

As for your last comment about Picasso and great artists stealing, I'm not sure of your point. Are you saying BMW should move more in the direction of disproportion and asymmetry? Or that staggering their exhaust makes the design artistic? I know these things are subjective at the end of the day, but a "Picasso car" would be horrible. Plus, BMW doesn't need to steal anything because they already have an iconic and original design. That's why everyone is wondering what they're doing with the current changes.

I really like your comments by the way. Very thoughtful and insightful. This is a great discussion.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by M3JetPilot

jmg, we might be saying similar things but in different ways. Much of what you say I don't necessarily disagree with. I agree that trends and fads are followed and influence others. We still have to ask the question if the current trend/fad in grill size has staying power. Will we look back on today's grills with the same admiration as the AC Cobra? As well, I would argue that once a brand has been established it's primary job is to remain true to the brand. BMW has something as close to original and good in many of its designs up until the big grill. Do they really think they can improve on that? This takes us back to my original post. If BMW has an iconic and recognizable brand then why should it follow any trend or fad? That's my point about change for changes sake. Once you have something original, the change you make isn't likely to be more original. That's why Porsche designs the way it does. BMW should do the same. Just because something is old and the same over a long period of time doesn't mean it isn't original. That is a primary flaw in the thinking of BMW designers today.

As for your last comment about Picasso and great artists stealing, I'm not sure of your point. Are you saying BMW should move more in the direction of disproportion and asymmetry? Or that staggering their exhaust makes the design artistic? I know these things are subjective at the end of the day, but a "Picasso car" would be horrible. Plus, BMW doesn't need to steal anything because they already have an iconic and original design. That's why everyone is wondering what they're doing with the current changes.

I really like your comments by the way. Very thoughtful and insightful. This is a great discussion.

Re: Picasso - I was more suggesting that stealing and borrowing are all a part of art. I interpret this as "inspiration".

Re: staying true to brand - this is the whole evolution vs revolution debate. I would even argue that the G8X grill is an evolution of early BMW grills:

[JagR2611]

What a great exchange! Very thoughtful and well said by both.

Thank you! While I enjoy flipping through a bunch of quick posts and / or pictures, I wish there were more like threads.