Auto Start Stop = Extra Wear and Tear?

cctm4me · 02-01-2015, 02:39 PM

It pains me even to have this option in my car. I was actually surprised when I took delivery and saw it in the car. Turned off and will never use! Would sell it on these forums to some E90 people if I could.

E90Fleet · 02-01-2015, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cctm4me

It pains me even to have this option in my car. I was actually surprised when I took delivery and saw it in the car. Turned off and will never use! Would sell it on these forums to some E90 people if I could.

Soon it will be legislated onto all new cars around the world.
Just be happy for the moment they allow us to turn it off.

cctm4me · 02-01-2015, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E90Fleet

Soon it will be legislated onto all new cars around the world.
Just be happy for the moment they allow us to turn it off.

I have full faith in our coders to make sure they can override this feature even when it becomes mandated.

Long live the 6MT as well. kthanks

brianeck · 02-01-2015, 03:07 PM

FYI to the OP and some other people from the first page AS/S actually wasn't designed to "improve gas mileage" as you are referring to, it was designed to "lower emissions."

While the two are somewhat related they aren't actually inherently the same. . . If you're just driving around town and waiting at stoplights for 20-30 seconds max on average then you're not actually going to improve your gas mileage at all because MPG actually requires you to be moving in order for it to factor in, and idling really doesn't use that much gas at all. In fact (I don't know this for sure so it is speculation, albeit logical) I would say that it is very likely you use MORE gas if you have AS/S on and you stop for 5 seconds or less do to the ignition fuel usage.

So if you're interested in maximizing MPG keep in mind that AS/S has little if not nothing to do with the actual fuel economy. Its more of an "engineering hack" to score better on the controlled emissions testing and meet EPA requirements etc and I'm about 95% confident saying that it has little to no impact whatsoever on the amount of gas you actually use getting from point A to point B. What it does do is cause less actual output from the car in a "simulated urban driving environment," but again keep in mind that the test is designed with frequent stops in mind.

Again, I do realize that the engine not being on does in fact save some gas, I'm not arguing that, but there are many other factors which have a much more direct impact on your real world MPG, and as MPG requires you to be moving it is your driving habits when said condition is actually met that really dictate your overall efficiency.

E90Fleet · 02-01-2015, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cctm4me

I have full faith in our coders to make sure they can override this feature even when it becomes mandated.

Long live the 6MT as well. kthanks

Coding can only change things BMW allows changed.
Else the ECU software will have to be cracked and that not often done.

But lets keep up the hope.

cctm4me · 02-01-2015, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E90Fleet

Coding can only change things BMW allows changed.
Else the ECU software will have to be cracked and that not often done.

But lets keep up the hope.

Listen here pessimistic poly, I am already more than distraught at the idea that manual trans may not be offered in a few years, please do not try and double down right now and be the voice of reason

Blksnowflake · 02-01-2015, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doctor///M

He's another thing OP, even if you wanted to use the start/stop in the Texas heat, my experience is that the A/C pretty much dies 5-10 seconds after the engine shuts off and the fan starts blowing progressively warmer air. Right there that kills it for me.

Interesting, thanks and definitely agree with you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

You have good points; however I disagree with your statement "Then you should probably buy a different car"... people has right to care about anything they want and still take advantage of everything they want "ie the performance of a high performance car" but then the only way that they can take this advantage is to drive the car the way it's meant to be driven

On a side note for those who really thing this ASS works in M-Cars the way it's meant to be designed for non M-cars, I tested this feature for a full one week just to see the advantages.
First of all......
Second.......
Third.......
Fourth......
Fifth......

To those who believe BMW has a reason to put this feature, I would say (as an engineer) this is a miscalculated engineering job to put ASS for M-Cars if it’s not supposed to work with M-DCT! I mean........

And to those who want to prevent wasting the gas, I have to say all M Car owners are already in “wasting gas” department......

OP, according to your question I have to say yes. ASS = Extra wear and tear. I just copy and paste the user’s manual (M6)here.
Auto Start/Stop function
The concept
The Auto Start/Stop function helps save fuel. The system switches off the engine during a stop, e.g., in a traffic congestion or at traffic lights. The ignition remains switched on. The engine starts again automatically for driving off. Certain vehicle components may experience additional wear as a result of this system.

Thank you so much for this thorough post, really appreciate you taking the time.. I've learned quite a few things from your insight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rupes

I'm sure they've all tested it thoroughly enough to know that your motor / starter wont experience any abnormal wear and tear within your 50k warranty. Beyond that, well, you're on your own!

OP, of course it causes extra wear, turn that crap off.

Seems like the direction I'm taking. What I didn't like was the hesitation and not having the car ready to respond when I want. Maybe if I adjust for the pause but I'm thinking the benefits aren't substantial enough. Leaning towards off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkoesel

I have read that the next evolution of this technology combined with BMWs eDrive will use the electric motor to start the ICE, therefore eliminating the need for a separate starter motor.

I believe it will be called Auto Start/Stop with Hybrid Autodrive Transmission, or ASSHAT for short.

Just mega lols

Quote:

Originally Posted by firstknight69

Just got my M4 last week and also was curious regarding the wear and tear of having engine on and off in stop and go traffic. I've driven with it on and off and frankly would like to not waste gas, but doesn't seem like the ASS system has much of an effect in the grand scheme of things. Will probably just leave it off.

Agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianeck

FYI to the OP and some other people from the first page AS/S actually wasn't designed to "improve gas mileage" as you are referring to, it was designed to "lower emissions."

While the two are somewhat related they aren't actually inherently the same. . . If you're just driving around town and waiting at stoplights for 20-30 seconds max on average then you're not actually going to improve your gas mileage at all because MPG actually requires you to be moving in order for it to factor in, and idling really doesn't use that much gas at all. In fact (I don't know this for sure so it is speculation, albeit logical) I would say that it is very likely you use MORE gas if you have AS/S on and you stop for 5 seconds or less do to the ignition fuel usage.

So if you're interested in.......

Didn't consider this view point, good to know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gblansten

So, to sum up the thread: very few ASS men in here.

Lols....just lols...

But you're assessment is right on.

X2Board · 02-01-2015, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lups

I doubt from all of bimmerpost we can find a member with a smaller footprint than mine

Challenge accepted, but you have to wait until I get my car, and get past the break in period.

Lups · 02-01-2015, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X2Board

Challenge accepted, but you have to wait until I get my car, and get past the break in period.

Overall! let's do the counting in the super secret OT!

X2Board · 02-01-2015, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lups

Overall! let's do the counting in the super secret OT!

You got it!

Lups · 02-01-2015, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X2Board

You got it!

Just remember the wise words of my pall M6 Coupe: You really do not want to hear the crying of the loser.

Lincoln30 · 02-02-2015, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gblansten

The parts for the ASS system (love that acronym) have been upgraded to accommodate the extra wear and tear.

mmmmmK. Kinda like when they went to extended oil changes b/c the oil could go 15K miles but forgot to upgrade the filters? I question what parts they didn't think about in the "upgrades"?

Bluex · 02-02-2015, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkoesel

I have read that the next evolution of this technology combined with BMWs eDrive will use the electric motor to start the ICE, therefore eliminating the need for a separate starter motor.

I believe it will be called Auto Start/Stop with Hybrid Autodrive Transmission, or ASSHAT for short.

Hah! I see what you did there.......

Kevlar · 02-03-2015, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianeck

Again, I do realize that the engine not being on does in fact save some gas, I'm not arguing that, but there are many other factors which have a much more direct impact on your real world MPG, and as MPG requires you to be moving it is your driving habits when said condition is actually met that really dictate your overall efficiency.

Your MPH will not change... but the amount of miles you get to a single tank of fuel will.

SMURFDADDY · 02-03-2015, 11:36 AM

Threads like this are exactly why I stayed off forums for years...why cant people just answer the damn question? No need to rip into the guy....

OP I would only have to assume that it would harm the motor in the long term, but if your car is a lease then who cares?

There is obviously added value if BMW decided to include the feature on the vehicle, so use it if its there.

Good luck

mkoesel · 02-03-2015, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMURFDADDY

Threads like this are exactly why I stayed off forums for years...why cant people just answer the damn question? No need to rip into the guy....

The question was answered correctly in post #6, so no harm done, right? I didn't see people ripping into the guy, just having a little fun.

Quote:

OP I would only have to assume that it would harm the motor in the long term, but if your car is a lease then who cares?

Who cares? What if he plans to buy out the car? I for one would care if the ASS causes the starter motor to fail prematurely. Luckily as per post #6, contrary to what you suggest, the motor is built for the task and will not be harmed by the extra work.

Quote:

There is obviously added value if BMW decided to include the feature on the vehicle, so use it if its there.

That's a fantastic attitude, but surely you don't use every feature of your car, right?

Richy Rich · 02-03-2015, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lups

Who cares since all of us have turned it off.

This.

FSHNGRY · 02-03-2015, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lups

Who cares since all of us have turned it off.

Blksnowflake · 02-03-2015, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMURFDADDY

Threads like this are exactly why I stayed off forums for years...why cant people just answer the damn question? No need to rip into the guy....

OP I would only have to assume that it would harm the motor in the long term, but if your car is a lease then who cares?

There is obviously added value if BMW decided to include the feature on the vehicle, so use it if its there.

Good luck

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkoesel

The question was answered correctly in post #6, so no harm done, right? I didn't see people ripping into the guy, just having a little fun.

Who cares? What if he plans to buy out the car? I for one would care if the ASS causes the starter motor to fail prematurely. Luckily as per post #6, contrary to what you suggest, the motor is built for the task and will not be harmed by the extra work.

That's a fantastic attitude, but surely you don't use every feature of your car, right?

Both excellent posts. I really appreciate all the points of view and cooperation. I do agree wit smurfdaddy though, some people just want to come off like the oh so "cool" forum member that drives their car like BMW intended, at a racetrack and don't care about anything and have all the sweet mods...

I am not rich, work very hard for everything I own, so I place value and consideration into my belongings...maybe to much. But from reading around the forum it seems most around here just keep their cars for 1-3 years, and get a new one....that's not me at all, unless I dislike the car for some reason. I'm new to BMWs and M cars so just trying to learn about my car and get different perspectives. I learned a few things from this thread that are not listed in any of my manuals.

Thanks to those who understood my intent.

SMURFDADDY · 02-03-2015, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkoesel

The question was answered correctly in post #6, so no harm done, right? I didn't see people ripping into the guy, just having a little fun.

Who cares? What if he plans to buy out the car? I for one would care if the ASS causes the starter motor to fail prematurely. Luckily as per post #6, contrary to what you suggest, the motor is built for the task and will not be harmed by the extra work.

That's a fantastic attitude, but surely you don't use every feature of your car, right?

* 3/4 of this thread has been useless information

* I, like most others who keep their cars for 2-3 years on lease typically dont care. If he plans on keeping the car then maybe he should take this into consideration.

* I use as much as I can. Feeling a hint of sarcasm on your end but hey, its the internet.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blksnowflake

Both excellent posts. I really appreciate all the points of view and cooperation. I do agree wit smurfdaddy though, some people just want to come off like the oh so "cool" forum member that drives their car like BMW intended, at a racetrack and don't care about anything and have all the sweet mods...

I am not rich, work very hard for everything I own, so I place value and consideration into my belongings...maybe to much. But from reading around the forum it seems most around here just keep their cars for 1-3 years, and get a new one....that's not me at all, unless I dislike the car for some reason. I'm new to BMWs and M cars so just trying to learn about my car and get different perspectives. I learned a few things from this thread that are not listed in any of my manuals.

Thanks to those who understood my intent.

I personally leave mine off, but after reading this thread earlier I flipped it on during my drive to lunch. It works just fine, and feels a lot better than most Start/Stop equipped cars I've driven granted that its mated to a DCT (most would figure it would be jerkier). I would think the benefits of the function would be negligible on a car like this that gets sub-par fuel economy in the city, but again, its your car, and you should do what makes you happiest

mkoesel · 02-03-2015, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blksnowflake

I do agree wit smurfdaddy though, some people just want to come off like the oh so "cool" forum member that drives their car like BMW intended, at a racetrack and don't care about anything and have all the sweet mods...

I certainly don't want anyone coming away feeling bullied, so I hope that is not the case. I can certainly appreciate your points, and for sure there are some tough guy types who frequent or inhabit this forum. I do what I can to remove those types of posts.

In this thread, though, based on who replied and what was said my feeling is that overall people were just having a little fun with it. That said, having read back through it more carefully there are a couple that seem more harsh. I apologize for missing that earlier. I'll see what I can do to clean it up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMURFDADDY

* 3/4 of this thread has been useless information

Yeah, well that's a victory in my mind when we compare against the Internet at large.

But I'll tell you what - you (and anyone else for that matter) can report any post (using the little exclamation point button) that you feel is not in keeping with the forum rules and I'll be happy to review it and take appropriate action.

Quote:

* I, like most others who keep their cars for 2-3 years on lease typically dont care. If he plans on keeping the car then maybe he should take this into consideration.

Wow, so you don't see any irony at all with your lais·sez-faire demeanor here, when - if you look back at the beginning of the thread - that is exactly the type of attitude and behavior that you are taking issue with?

Quote:

* I use as much as I can. Feeling a hint of sarcasm on your end but hey, its the internet...

No sarcasm intended whatsoever. I was trying to give you some perspective - something to think about. I was hoping for one of those "huh, the guy has a point" sort of reactions, but based on how things are going so far it looks as though you are perhaps more apt to dig your heels in when you face a situation like this and redouble your finger pointing efforts instead.

gblansten · 02-03-2015, 08:33 PM

Just be glad that ASS is not coded on by default like it is in the regular non-M 5-series. My neighbor's 528 drove her nuts because she had to turn the ASS off every time she drove it.

I told her that BMW could code it off. She was skeptical and was worried that BMW would tear her ASS up. But I convinced her that they would take care of her ASS. The first time I saw her after they coded it off she was really appreciative that her ASS was now off by default. Seriously, a true story.

Most people don't care for this technology and I'm not surprised that BMW will turn the system off for you at least once without charge.

02-01-2015, 02:39 PM	#45
cctm4me First Lieutenant 137 Rep 372 Posts Drives: 2015 F82 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Orlando iTrader: (0)	It pains me even to have this option in my car. I was actually surprised when I took delivery and saw it in the car. Turned off and will never use! Would sell it on these forums to some E90 people if I could. __________________ M4 - White Sex Panther E46 M3 - Pablo the cocaine smuggling donkey
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-01-2015, 03:07 PM	#48
brianeck Part Time Firetruck Crash Barrier 788 Rep 1,563 Posts Drives: 2022 M340ix Mineral Grey Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Nyack NY iTrader: (0)	FYI to the OP and some other people from the first page AS/S actually wasn't designed to "improve gas mileage" as you are referring to, it was designed to "lower emissions." While the two are somewhat related they aren't actually inherently the same. . . If you're just driving around town and waiting at stoplights for 20-30 seconds max on average then you're not actually going to improve your gas mileage at all because MPG actually requires you to be moving in order for it to factor in, and idling really doesn't use that much gas at all. In fact (I don't know this for sure so it is speculation, albeit logical) I would say that it is very likely you use MORE gas if you have AS/S on and you stop for 5 seconds or less do to the ignition fuel usage. So if you're interested in maximizing MPG keep in mind that AS/S has little if not nothing to do with the actual fuel economy. Its more of an "engineering hack" to score better on the controlled emissions testing and meet EPA requirements etc and I'm about 95% confident saying that it has little to no impact whatsoever on the amount of gas you actually use getting from point A to point B. What it does do is cause less actual output from the car in a "simulated urban driving environment," but again keep in mind that the test is designed with frequent stops in mind. Again, I do realize that the engine not being on does in fact save some gas, I'm not arguing that, but there are many other factors which have a much more direct impact on your real world MPG, and as MPG requires you to be moving it is your driving habits when said condition is actually met that really dictate your overall efficiency. __________________ m340ix Mineral Grey/Tacora Red
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02-03-2015, 11:36 AM	#59
SMURFDADDY First Lieutenant 201 Rep 310 Posts Drives: YMB/SS M4 Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Your Mom iTrader: (0)	Threads like this are exactly why I stayed off forums for years...why cant people just answer the damn question? No need to rip into the guy.... OP I would only have to assume that it would harm the motor in the long term, but if your car is a lease then who cares? There is obviously added value if BMW decided to include the feature on the vehicle, so use it if its there. Good luck
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02-03-2015, 08:33 PM	#66
gblansten Brigadier General 1971 Rep 4,217 Posts Drives: 23 Tesla S Plaid Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Thick ascending limb iTrader: (0)	Just be glad that ASS is not coded on by default like it is in the regular non-M 5-series. My neighbor's 528 drove her nuts because she had to turn the ASS off every time she drove it. I told her that BMW could code it off. She was skeptical and was worried that BMW would tear her ASS up. But I convinced her that they would take care of her ASS. The first time I saw her after they coded it off she was really appreciative that her ASS was now off by default. Seriously, a true story. Most people don't care for this technology and I'm not surprised that BMW will turn the system off for you at least once without charge.
	Appreciate 1 Quote