Another oil Thread (Purol oil)

[Sergio.M34TY]

Attached is my last liqui moly oil change before chaging oils what are your thoughts edycol ? I just moved closer to the city so now my car will be seeing more shorter trips in the 20-25 minute range. Do I still go for HPL bad ass racing oil? How streetable is it? I’ve heard for the newer M340’s it’s important for the oil to be API SP for LSP protection how true is this? Is the bad ass racing oil API SP rated?

[edycol]

Originally Posted by Sergio.M34TY

Attached is my last liqui moly oil change before chaging oils what are your thoughts edycol ? I just moved closer to the city so now my car will be seeing more shorter trips in the 20-25 minute range. Do I still go for HPL bad ass racing oil? How streetable is it? I’ve heard for the newer M340’s it’s important for the oil to be API SP for LSP protection how true is this? Is the bad ass racing oil API SP rated?

Hey,

Not fan of that KV100 at 9.77cst. The fuel is shearing oil big time.
If you don't want to go HPL, definitely go with 5W40. Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 is readily available, Mobil 1 0W40, Motul X-Cess 5W40GEN2 is online.
If you stay with LM (I am not a big fan of theirs), definitely jump to 5W40.

[Sergio.M34TY]

Originally Posted by edycol

Hey,

Not fan of that KV100 at 9.77cst. The fuel is shearing oil big time.
If you don't want to go HPL, definitely go with 5W40. Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 is readily available, Mobil 1 0W40, Motul X-Cess 5W40GEN2 is online.
If you stay with LM (I am not a big fan of theirs), definitely jump to 5W40.

Right now I’m in between Motul power 5W-40 and HPL 5W-40. My car now seeing more short trips between 20-25 minutes what route should I go. Or is the Excess Gen 2 my best option since it’s more streetable. How streetable is the HPL and the Motul Power 5W-40?

[edycol]

Originally Posted by Sergio.M34TY

Right now I’m in between Motul power 5W-40 and HPL 5W-40. My car now seeing more short trips between 20-25 minutes what route should I go. Or is the Excess Gen 2 my best option since it’s more streetable. How streetable is the HPL and the Motul Power 5W-40?

Motul Power is nothing special. 300V is another thing, but that is more racing stuff.
HPL BAS is fully streetable. I know bcs. I asked blender at HPL specifically forbyour use .
If you want something strong, shear stable, but that takes short trips good, HPL Euro 5W40 would be my bet.
Otherwise stick to Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 or Morul X-Cess 5W40 GEN2.

[Sergio.M34TY]

Originally Posted by edycol

Motul Power is nothing special. 300V is another thing, but that is more racing stuff.
HPL BAS is fully streetable. I know bcs. I asked blender at HPL specifically forbyour use .
If you want something strong, shear stable, but that takes short trips good, HPL Euro 5W40 would be my bet.
Otherwise stick to Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 or Morul X-Cess 5W40 GEN2.

Preciate you going out of your way to do research on it.

I thought Motul Power was better than the X-cess gen 2. I didn’t think you would take it over the Motul Power.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by Sergio.M34TY

Preciate you going out of your way to do research on it.

I thought Motul Power was better than the X-cess gen 2. I didn’t think you would take it over the Motul Power.

I would bcs. you are doing shorter trips. You need stout, strong detergency there.

[ericold]

Originally Posted by edycol

I would bcs. you are doing shorter trips. You need stout, strong detergency there.

i understand the need for more strong detergency there, short trips cause a lot of deposits and fuel dilution.
but i thought that doing short trips , a 30 grade ,meaning lower hths around 3.5 is better bcs. oil will reach temp faster when with a 40 in such short trips might not.
at least thats what you told me when i asked you and suggested me esp 5-30 than the xcess gen 2.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by ericold

i understand the need for more strong detergency there, short trips cause a lot of deposits and fuel dilution.
but i thought that doing short trips , a 30 grade ,meaning lower hths around 3.5 is better bcs. oil will reach temp faster when with a 40 in such short trips might not.
at least thats what you told me when i asked you and suggested me esp 5-30 than the xcess gen 2.

Yes, but he is running on alcohol fuel. You want higher viscosity there, as alcohol is a natural fuel dilutor and thinner.

[Sergio.M34TY]

Originally Posted by edycol

Yes, but he is running on alcohol fuel. You want higher viscosity there, as alcohol is a natural fuel dilutor and thinner.

edycol now for the winter the car will stay on 93 only. What would you advise me to use then? Would the Motul X-cess 5W-30 be good? The only thing is that oil is not API SP rated and I’ve been told the B58 engine needs that rating for LSPI protection I don’t know how tru that is, would like your input on it.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by Sergio.M34TY

edycol now for the winter the car will stay on 93 only. What would you advise me to use then? Would the Motul X-cess 5W-30 be good? The only thing is that oil is not API SP rated and I’ve been told the B58 engine needs that rating for LSPI protection I don’t know how tru that is, would like your input on it.

Here is a rundown of why API does not matter, and I apologize if this is a bit of a historical, academic response (well, that is my job now):
In the beginning of 1990's European manufacturers were moving toward downsizing (2.0 turbo engines, small diesel direct injection engines). They required better oils than what API was offering, and API was not willing to make standards more stringent. When ACEA (Association des Constructeurs Européens d'Automobiles) was founded, one of the things they did was introduce oil standards ACE A3, B3, etc. Soon, European manufacturers introduced their own standards that were based on ACEA, just more stringent.
API never caught up, nor did they try to, and European manufacturers never paid that much attention to API after that. API focused on cheaper oils, something that oil companies wanted.

When API was moving from API SL to API SM, they made one change that made LSPI an issue in engines that were not designed as good. For API SM in XW30 and XW20 grades, they lowered the maximum phosphorus level to 800ppm. Since phosphorus is an integral part of ZDDP ( Zinc dialkyldithiophosphates) as phosphorus pentasulfide is the first step in getting ZDDP, plus phosphorus is a joint among zinc, sulfur, and alkyl, ZDDP levels dropped in API SM and later SN, SN+, and SP oils in XW30 and XW20 grades. Here is the problem: ZDDP is much better in preventing LSPI than lowering calcium levels. However, once LSPI issues started to appear (because, well, they lowered ZDDP with a limit on phosphorus and some engines are just designed badly), mostly among Asian and American manufacturers, API required from API SN+ to lower calcium, in an attempt to prevent LSPI. Here is a catch: test is done on FORD 2.0T Ecoboost engine that does not have LSPI issue. What they do is trying to simulate LSPI event with lowering speed, but increasing boost. You really don't know whether that is working. LSPI is still "foggy" issue among oil blanders. This is an issue mostly among ILSAC GF-6 oils because of that phosphorus limit.

So what does this have to do with Euro oils? Well, Euro oils kept phosphorus above 800ppm, and ZDDP in Euro oils is much higher. That is why Castrol Edge 0W30 is still API SL, not because the additive package is outdated, but because phosphorus levels are above 800ppm. Motul X-Cess 5W30 also has higher ZDDP content; therefore, it cannot be API SP. What additive package they have? They have actually API SP additive package, the same one as Euro XW40 oils. You see, API did not limit phosphorus in XW40 oils. That is why Motul X-Cess 5W40 GEN2 is API SP, and X-Cess 5W30 is API SL.
So, don't pay attention on API. Pay attention on European approvals, BMW LL01, MB 229.5 etc. BMW has LSPI sequence since 2022, as well as Mercedes. Additionally, most current XW30 European formulations, as they contain the API SP additive package from XW40 oils, have also lowered calcium. It is just that high phosphorus keeps them still designated as API SL.

As for you not using alcohol, it is tuned engine. I would go 5W40, Motul, Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 (I really like that one), Mobil1 0W40 FS. New Mobil1 ESP 0W40 X4 is proving as really, really stout oil! You might check that out. It is GTL, PAO and Ester based. Very shear stable. And it is MB229.52, which means LSPI test was done.

Hope this makes sense.

[Sergio.M34TY]

Originally Posted by edycol

Here is a rundown of why API does not matter, and I apologize if this is a bit of a historical, academic response (well, that is my job now):
In the beginning of 1990's European manufacturers were moving toward downsizing (2.0 turbo engines, small diesel direct injection engines). They required better oils than what API was offering, and API was not willing to make standards more stringent. When ACEA (Association des Constructeurs Européens d'Automobiles) was founded, one of the things they did was introduce oil standards ACE A3, B3, etc. Soon, European manufacturers introduced their own standards that were based on ACEA, just more stringent.
API never caught up, nor did they try to, and European manufacturers never paid that much attention to API after that. API focused on cheaper oils, something that oil companies wanted.

When API was moving from API SL to API SM, they made one change that made LSPI an issue in engines that were not designed as good. For API SM in XW30 and XW20 grades, they lowered the maximum phosphorus level to 800ppm. Since phosphorus is an integral part of ZDDP ( Zinc dialkyldithiophosphates) as phosphorus pentasulfide is the first step in getting ZDDP, plus phosphorus is a joint among zinc, sulfur, and alkyl, ZDDP levels dropped in API SM and later SN, SN+, and SP oils in XW30 and XW20 grades. Here is the problem: ZDDP is much better in preventing LSPI than lowering calcium levels. However, once LSPI issues started to appear (because, well, they lowered ZDDP with a limit on phosphorus and some engines are just designed badly), mostly [...]

Man I wish I had the same amount of knowledge you have when it comes to oil it’s insane. I can’t lie you did lose me several times but I will look more into each part and learn myself lol. I guess I’ll stick to Motul 8100 X-Cess Gen 2 5w-40 throughout the winter. Would you say the Pennzoil platnium Euro 5w-40 is better than the Motul X-Cess Gen 2? I also just bought a 2016 M3 competition right now it’s stock 60k miles the car will stay in Florida so hot weather what oil would you suggest while it’s stock? I heard the Motul X-Cess is gen 2 is for catless cars and the X-Clean gen 2 is for catted cars how true is this? Would love your feedback on what oil to use on the F80 thank you!

[edycol]

Originally Posted by Sergio.M34TY

Man I wish I had the same amount of knowledge you have when it comes to oil it’s insane. I can’t lie you did lose me several times but I will look more into each part and learn myself lol. I guess I’ll stick to Motul 8100 X-Cess Gen 2 5w-40 throughout the winter. Would you say the Pennzoil platnium Euro 5w-40 is better than the Motul X-Cess Gen 2? I also just bought a 2016 M3 competition right now it’s stock 60k miles the car will stay in Florida so hot weather what oil would you suggest while it’s stock? I heard the Motul X-Cess is gen 2 is for catless cars and the X-Clean gen 2 is for catted cars how true is this? Would love your feedback on what oil to use on the F80 thank you!

There is no such thing as "oil for cat" and "catless." All oils are catalytic converter-friendly since 1988. Since then, Zinc and phosphorus levels have been limited. Particularly, Zinc, which is limited in street oils (API or European approved ones) to 1200ppm. Since then, higher Zinc levels are only found in racing oils like Motul 300V, which is around 1300ppm (not a big deal). You really don't have an issue with that, Zinc levels, unless your engine is burning oil like crazy. Most Euro oils will have Zinc levels between 900 and 1100 ppm (most likely 900-1000ppm). So, whoever said X-Clean is cat friendly and X-Cess is for catless, does not know what he/she talks about.

X-Clean is so-called Low-SAPS oil (MB229.51/52, BMW LL04, VW 504/507.00 (only 0/5W30) or VW 511.00). Low-SAPS oils are for DPF and GPF (Diesel/Gasoline Particulate Filters). LL01 or MB229.5, VW 502.00, Porsche A40 are High-SAPS oils. What is SAPS? Sulfated Ash and Phosphorus. It is byproductof oil lubrication.
Sulfated Ash is a problem. If bad PCV system (N54) it will create carbon on intake valve. That carbon deposit on some direct-injected engines (N54)? That is Sulfated Ash. Sulfated Ash also clogs DPF/GPF. So diesel engines in Europe since 2004 use Low-SAPS oils. DOF will eventually clog, but Low-SAPS oil will extend its life. Can you use Low-SAPS oil like LL04? Yes! Problem with LL04 oils before was that the US gasoline was high in sulphur. LL04 oils don;t have as robust additive package as High SAPS oils, and sulphur in gas kills additives in oil. In the EU, they use BMW LL04 in gasoline engines since 2009, as their gas is Ultra Low Sulphur Gasoline (ULSG) since 2009. In the US, we moved to ULSG since 2017. LL04 is basically thick LL17FE that BMW today uses in most of its engines in the US (0W20).

In Miami, just use whatever you are using now in current BMW. 5W40 will do it. Again, Mobil1 ESP 0W40 X4 seems like new darling among enthusiasts. If you want something special, I would go HPL oils. In Miami, there is really no need to worry about warming up the engine, going 30 grade.
X4 does not have LL04 approval as it has too many esters in base stocks, so base oxidation is probably above BMW limits. Unless you are doing 15k OCI, that should not be a concern. It has MB229.52, which is a more stringent approval than BMW LL04.
If you want to go W30, Mobil1 ESP 0W30 is probably best 30 grade right now. It is not LL04 bcs. again, too much esters (good thing) but it is MB229.52. It is $27 in Wal mart for 5qt. In non tuned S55, that would be good choice if not tracking. Again, for folks that track, W40 is IMO a must!

As for Pennzoil, IDK. I did some tests with Shell US (SOPUS) where we tested Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 against Motul X-Cess 5W40 GEN2 from my BMW with N52 engine, 5k OCI, with track time on both oils, and both performed exceptionally well. Like, literally, there is a statistical error between them.

[ericold]

Originally Posted by edycol

If you want to go W30, Mobil1 ESP 0W30 is probably best 30 grade right now. It is not LL04 bcs. again, too much esters (good thing) but it is MB229.52. It is $27 in Wal mart for 5qt. In non tuned S55, that would be good choice if not tracking. Again, for folks that track, W40 is IMO a must!

what is the HTHS and VI for Mobil1 ESP 0W30? it is not mentioned on tech sheet on official page.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by ericold

what is the HTHS and VI for Mobil1 ESP 0W30? it is not mentioned on tech sheet on official page.

HTHS is right around 3.5cP mark.
https://www.oil-club.ru/forum/topic/...6%D0%B5%D0%B5/