Spool Performance HPFP now available for the S55!

[Sales@KRATOS]

Originally Posted by RSXDC5

Would the OTS BM3 E30 map fall into this category as well?

No, this doesn't apply to BM3 OTS E30 maps. Stock DI injector failures mainly become an issue when running high ethanol content aggressive tunes that require high fuel pressure targets.

[Msm1984]

Originally Posted by Sales@KRATOS

Yes, DI injectors will fail on full E85 tunes at some point due to continuous high fuel pressure targets. Adding conditioners and filling up with 93 octane every now and then will do nothing to prevent or prolong the life of the DI injectors on a S55 as they are internally steel bodied. This is common practice on older vehicles not designed for modern day fuels that contain E85. Somehow this practice has found it's way into the S55 platform without a true understanding of the fuel system components and what actually causes the failures.

Originally Posted by Sales@KRATOS

Yes, DI injectors will fail on full E85 tunes at some point due to continuous high fuel pressure targets. Adding conditioners and filling up with 93 octane every now and then will do nothing to prevent or prolong the life of the DI injectors on a S55 as they are internally steel bodied. This is common practice on older vehicles not designed for modern day fuels that contain E85. Somehow this practice has found it's way into the S55 platform without a true understanding of the fuel system components and what actually causes the failures.

Thank you so much for this. What would be the remedy for this? Could I simply just buy upgraded/better injectors without upgrading the rest of the fuel system?

[Sales@KRATOS]

Originally Posted by Msm1984

Thank you so much for this. What would be the remedy for this? Could I simply just buy upgraded/better injectors without upgrading the rest of the fuel system?

For a stock engine car with stock turbos on straight E85, larger injectors will resolve this issue. For built engine cars looking to produce 1000whp+ on straight E85 you will need injectors, hpfp upgrades, and PI to keep from having DI injector failures as well as HPFP's from crashing.

[HyeM3]

Originally Posted by Sales@KRATOS

Yes, DI injectors will fail on full E85 tunes at some point due to continuous high fuel pressure targets. Adding conditioners and filling up with 93 octane every now and then will do nothing to prevent or prolong the life of the DI injectors on a S55 as they are internally steel bodied.

Do you guys know yet how high is too high for HPFP targets on the stock injectors? It would be nice to know the safety threshold so that way we could have our tuners adjust things in order to keep our injectors happy and maybe not have to swap back to pump gas as often

[TopJimmy]

Originally Posted by HyeM3

Do you guys know yet how high is too high for HPFP targets on the stock injectors? It would be nice to know the safety threshold so that way we could have our tuners adjust things in order to keep our injectors happy and maybe not have to swap back to pump gas as often

The issue there is when you switch from gasoline to E85 you consume so much more fuel that the x-high HPFP output is needed to prevent starvation. The way to reduce your HPFP pressure would be to keep on E85 and install PI, or to reduce from E85 down to E50-30.

[///BMW Junkie]

Originally Posted by Sales@KRATOS

For a stock engine car with stock turbos on straight E85, larger injectors will resolve this issue. For built engine cars looking to produce 1000whp+ on straight E85 you will need injectors, hpfp upgrades, and PI to keep from having DI injector failures as well as HPFP's from crashing.

Do you have DI injector recommendation for a car with upgraded turbos? Only thing I have been seen were posts about running F10 M5 injectors.. Some say they flow only 10% more while others say 50%.

[AlpineF80]

Originally Posted by Sales@KRATOS

For a stock engine car with stock turbos on straight E85, larger injectors will resolve this issue. For built engine cars looking to produce 1000whp+ on straight E85 you will need injectors, hpfp upgrades, and PI to keep from having DI injector failures as well as HPFP's from crashing.

Your information and expertise means a lot to our community.

In that list of fuel system upgrades, do you deem the stock LPFP to be sufficient? Or when you mention PI, do you include an upgraded LPFP in that?

Thanks again!

[Sales@KRATOS]

Originally Posted by ///BMW Junkie

Do you have DI injector recommendation for a car with upgraded turbos? Only thing I have been seen were posts about running F10 M5 injectors.. Some say they flow only 10% more while others say 50%.

During the testing process it was a collective decision not to release information on which injectors we were working with until testing was complete. This process has been going on for several months now and we can honestly say it's not going to be a an easily tunable drop-in unless you already know the data for the calibration tables. The objective was to insure the injectors would have good start up, drivability, and maximize power before we felt comfortable making the recommendation to the general public.

Now that we've pretty much successfully completed drivability and start up testing on straight E85 the decision was made that we would let everyone know the injectors we had the best success with were the EU5's. There is quite a bit of misinformation regarding the flow rate of these injectors, but we can definitively state that they flow well over 10%-15% more than stock S55 injectors. We're already producing 25% more power than stock DI injector limit on straight E85 and still have plenty of injector left. We should be done with max power testing for the EU5's on the straight E85 without PI within the next few weeks and will keep everyone posted.

[Sales@KRATOS]

Originally Posted by AlpineF80

Your information and expertise means a lot to our community.

In that list of fuel system upgrades, do you deem the stock LPFP to be sufficient? Or when you mention PI, do you include an upgraded LPFP in that?

Thanks again!

We appreciate that!

Regarding the LPFP, yes this will need to be upgraded to maximize the capabilities of the higher flowing HPFP's. You will also need to do so when running PI. However, a LPFP upgrade won't be needed for vehicles with upgraded injectors as long as power levels are below what would be required for PI or upgraded HPFP's.

[///BMW Junkie]

Originally Posted by Sales@KRATOS

During the testing process it was a collective decision not to release information on which injectors we were working with until testing was complete. This process has been going on for several months now and we can honestly say it's not going to be a an easily tunable drop-in unless you already know the data for the calibration tables. The objective was to insure the injectors would have good start up, drivability, and maximize power before we felt comfortable making the recommendation to the general public.

Now that we've pretty much successfully completed drivability and start up testing on straight E85 the decision was made that we would let everyone know the injectors we had the best success with were the EU5's. There is quite a bit of misinformation regarding the flow rate of these injectors, but we can definitively state that they flow well over 10%-15% more than stock S55 injectors. We're already producing 25% more power than stock DI injector limit on straight E85 and still have plenty of injector left. We should be done with max power testing for the EU5's on the straight E85 without PI within the next few weeks and will keep everyone posted.

Thanks for the intel! Looking forward to further results. Just to follow up on the 25% more power, was that achieved by just upgrading the injectors?

[MJ6]

Originally Posted by Sales@KRATOS

Regarding the LPFP, yes this will need to be upgraded to maximize the capabilities of the higher flowing HPFP's.

This keeps sounding better and better.

Regarding the upgraded LPFP, is there a particular one that has been utilized during testing, or would you happen to know if a new offering will be made available along with the HPFP's when released to the public?

[Bluer2]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

Brand new Carbahn engine was recently installed, still going through break-in.

Bruh?

[Sales@KRATOS]

Originally Posted by ///BMW Junkie

Thanks for the intel! Looking forward to further results. Just to follow up on the 25% more power, was that achieved by just upgrading the injectors?

We're basing this on the stock fuel system average limit range on straight E85 which is approximately 550-600whp. We've made 750whp thus far with the addition of injector upgrades and Dorch HPFP upgrades on Ignite Red (88% Ethanol Content) and still have plenty of injector left. This was done without the use of PI. Just to clarify, the HPFP solution from Dorch is not needed to make this kind of power with EU5 injectors as stock HPFP's will support this. However, it's a dangerous game to play on stock HPFP's on straight E85 since it will require higher fuel pressure targets. Whereas, with the Dorch HPFP solution you can run much lower pressures due to the significant increase in fuel volume over stock HPFP's. This keeps the DI injectors much safer and happier which prevents them from locking up and failing.

[Sales@KRATOS]

Originally Posted by MJ6

This keeps sounding better and better.

Regarding the upgraded LPFP, is there a particular one that has been utilized during testing, or would you happen to know if a new offering will be made available along with the HPFP's when released to the public?

We've been using the LPFP upgrade that came with Fuel-It PI kit that's currently on our beta test vehicle. Your best best would be to speak to Dorch to see if they will be offering a LPFP upgrade kit if you prefer not to go the PI route or don't already have PI on your car.

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by Bluer2

Bruh?

Owner is going a different route for even more power (keeping Spool Performance system) and installing a set of Kratos turbos.

Results will be posted in a new thread when completed.

[MJ6]

Originally Posted by Sales@KRATOS

We've been using the LPFP upgrade that came with Fuel-It PI kit that's currently on our beta test vehicle. Your best best would be to speak to Dorch to see if they will be offering a LPFP upgrade kit if you prefer not to go the PI route or don't already have PI on your car.

Roger. I just spoke to a Dorch representative and they don't have any immediate plans to release a LPFP as most of their contacts already had secondary pumps for PI. They were quick to point out however that if it becomes a stumbling point from the perspective of aftermarket support, they might entertain introducing such an option in the future.

The only two options for upgraded LPFP's that I've found right now are that from Fuel-It and Spool Performance. The Fuel-It unit appears to be proprietary as it's meant to be utilized with their PI system and return line, so I'm not sure if that would be a viable option as I already have a Bend Calibration Flex-Fuel kit installed. I emailed Spool Performance though to check on the compatibility and functionality of using it with the stock lines, so I'll report back here once I get word.

[///BMW Junkie]

Originally Posted by MJ6

Roger. I just spoke to a Dorch representative and they don't have any immediate plans to release a LPFP as most of their contacts already had secondary pumps for PI. They were quick to point out however that if it becomes a stumbling point from the perspective of aftermarket support, they might entertain introducing such an option in the future.

The only two options for upgraded LPFP's that I've found right now are that from Fuel-It and Spool Performance. The Fuel-It unit appears to be proprietary as it's meant to be utilized with their PI system and return line, so I'm not sure if that would be a viable option as I already have a Bend Calibration Flex-Fuel kit installed. I emailed Spool Performance though to check on the compatibility and functionality of using it with the stock lines, so I'll report back here once I get word.

Precision Raceworks appears to be a popular option.

https://www.precisionraceworks.com/f...fuel-pump.aspx

[MJ6]

Originally Posted by ///BMW Junkie

Precision Raceworks appears to be a popular option.

https://www.precisionraceworks.com/f...fuel-pump.aspx

That looks like one of the better options I've seen considering I have one of Bend Calibrations Flex-Fuel kits with inline filter already; I like the option of the upgraded fuel lines too (them braided lines is purty).

I'll drop them a line and see what they say!

[///BMW Junkie]

Originally Posted by MJ6

That looks like one of the better options I've seen considering I have one of Bend Calibrations Flex-Fuel kits with inline filter already; I like the option of the upgraded fuel lines too (them braided lines is purty).

I'll drop them a line and see what they say!

Indeed. Kies Motorsports had a recent video with this kit and upgraded turbos.

[Tall Jim]

Originally Posted by Sales@KRATOS

Just to clarify, the HPFP solution from Dorch is not needed to make this kind of power with EU5 injectors as stock HPFP's will support this. However, it's a dangerous game to play on stock HPFP's on straight E85 since it will require higher fuel pressure targets. Whereas, with the Dorch HPFP solution you can run much lower pressures due to the significant increase in fuel volume over stock HPFP's. This keeps the DI injectors much safer and happier which prevents them from locking up and failing.

Can you elaborate on how the Dorch HPFP allows you to run lower pressure due to increase in fuel flow? That doesn't make sense to me because the injectors are the fueling limitation on these cars and not the HPFP. The reason we run a higher fuel pressure is because it allows you to push more fuel through the same size injectors, but lowering pressure because you have more flow from a bigger pump wouldn't do anything when you bottleneck is still the injector. I'm curious because I've tuned a few of these cars and currently I'm just waiting on an aftermarket injector because it doesn't seem like a bigger HPFP will do anything for power.

[///BMW Junkie]

Originally Posted by Sales@KRATOS

We're basing this on the stock fuel system average limit range on straight E85 which is approximately 550-600whp. We've made 750whp thus far with the addition of injector upgrades and Dorch HPFP upgrades on Ignite Red (88% Ethanol Content) and still have plenty of injector left. This was done without the use of PI. Just to clarify, the HPFP solution from Dorch is not needed to make this kind of power with EU5 injectors as stock HPFP's will support this. However, it's a dangerous game to play on stock HPFP's on straight E85 since it will require higher fuel pressure targets. Whereas, with the Dorch HPFP solution you can run much lower pressures due to the significant increase in fuel volume over stock HPFP's. This keeps the DI injectors much safer and happier which prevents them from locking up and failing.

Noted. Yes, while a large majority of cars running full E85 with a stock fuel system (no meth) are on stock turbos (550-600whp), I do believe most of us here very interested in this discussion are running upgraded turbos. My understanding is that the max effort with upgraded turbos and stock fuel system (no meth) is 650-670whp, albeit on E50. Please correct me if any of this is incorrect, I'm just going by what I've seen shared online and advertised on popular F8X tuner website.

Now I'm sure lot of us got excited about the idea of a upgraded DI system for a more cleaner OEM+ application with less potential issues/leaks and the fact of not having to deal with old tech controllers. Unfortunately Spool came out with a HPFP product without sharing much data if any and no mention of injectors.

That said, I know several people with upgraded turbos who are not particularly interested in running supplemental fueling (meth or PI) and are really curious on the potential gains/max HP from the following potential setups I will list below.

Please note, this is in regards to what I'd call most common upgraded turbo setup, just looking to run full E85 and make generally accepted "safe" amount of power (700-750whp) without the need to build the motor. Again no meth or PI, just DI.

1. EU5 injectors only
2. LPFP with EU5 injectors
3. HPFP with EU5 injectors
4. HPFP/LPFP and EU5 injectors
5. Another potential combo you advise?

[MJ6]

Originally Posted by ///BMW Junkie

Please note, this is in regards to what I'd call most common upgraded turbo setup, just looking to run full E85 and make generally accepted "safe" amount of power (700-750whp) without the need to build the motor. Again no meth or PI, just DI.

1. EU5 injectors only
2. LPFP with EU5 injectors
3. HPFP with EU5 injectors
4. HPFP/LPFP and EU5 injectors
5. Another potential combo you advise?

Sales@KRATOS

As a caveat to the "EU5 injectors only" listed above, if one wanted to pursue an E50-E60 tune as opposed to a full E85 tune, would the upgraded injectors return a better result as opposed to the stock injectors when running upgraded turbos?

Seeing as I'm not planning on breaking any records or building the engine, if the EU5 injectors would benefit the KRAS55Bi's at an E50-E60 level I might be inclined to use the stock HPFP's going forward.