Crank Hub Issue Master Thread: What You Need To Know!

[Reid]

Originally Posted by 808M3

BMW races DTM with these engines, what crank hub are they using?

DTM cars are tube frame race cars using N/A 4.0L V8's (no relation to the S65 in the E9x).

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by Reid

DTM cars are tube frame race cars using N/A 4.0L V8's (no relation to the S65 in the E9x).

Allmost correct

DTM cars have a carbonfibre tub with a steel rollcage. The tub is a spec piece shared by all teams

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...s-spec-feature

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by 808M3

Does anyone know what crank hub the M4 GTS is using? It has 75 hp more than stock M3/M4, if there is a problem, it should also show up on that model. If its crank hub is different, then maybe we should replace it with the hub it has.

Problem shows up on some stock cars too.

[JcLusso]

Originally Posted by TPG Tuning

I agree the press fit could help however it would still have a potential to spin. The one piece could work for some time, however I believe there will eventually be failures. We will not be offering ours to the public so Gintani is going to be everyone's go to.

You say it as if your part actually works. Stop pretending you guys didn't fuck over all the members of this forum that bought this part and now have a ticking time bomb in their motor. The failure numbers are through the rough. I'd bet you guys sold like 50-100 of these at best and we have at least 10 failures plus all the people that have been silenced. I've heard stories of at least 2-3 other cars where things were pushed under the rug lets say....

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by 808M3

Does anyone know what crank hub the M4 GTS is using? It has 75 hp more than stock M3/M4, if there is a problem, it should also show up on that model. If its crank hub is different, then maybe we should replace it with the hub it has.

According to BMW ETK it's the same parts as on all other S55's

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by JcLusso

You say it as if your part actually works. Stop pretending you guys didn't fuck over all the members of this forum that bought this part and now have a ticking time bomb in their motor. The failure numbers are through the rough. I'd bet you guys sold like 50-100 of these at best and we have at least 10 failures plus all the people that have been silenced. I've heard stories of at least 2-3 other cars where things were pushed under the rug lets say....

JcLusso - As a member of this community, I have to thank you for assembling this thread and putting together information for others.

At the same time, your tone and your originally posted facebook commentary has been nothing but inflammatory towards TPG. First you claimed there was no crank hub issue (in your own posted facebook thread), now you are claiming TPG's crank hub has had at least 10 failures. Where? And alluding to "other unnamed failures" is distractionary.

I've read of I think 4-5 failures and they took their product off the market. I think two of those were Sameet's.

The forum members who bought it did so at risk and at their own discretion. Where is their responsibility for buying a major engine component without having any independent confirmation there is an issue, that the TPG part was thoroughly tested, and that it greatly reduced their risk? No offense to such members, but they jumped at a vendor marketing their own product without such independent testing.

Please, keep up the good service and tone down the rhetoric and personal attacks. Solid, evidence-backed statements are what is going to continue us moving forward.

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by dmk08

Problem shows up on some stock cars too.

People on here feel they have established that torque/horsepower have no relation to power failure of this part as there is no change in load on the part with additional power. The belief is that it's all about the forced change in engine speed. IDK, but about every 2 pages someone chimes in with the belief that it's output related.

[jwzimm]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

JcLusso - As a member of this community, I have to thank you for assembling this thread and putting together information for others.

At the same time, your tone and your originally posted facebook commentary has been nothing but inflammatory towards TPG. First you claimed there was no crank hub issue (in your own posted facebook thread), now you are claiming TPG's crank hub has had at least 10 failures. Where? And alluding to "other unnamed failures" is distractionary.

I've read of I think 4-5 failures and they took their product off the market. I think two of those were Sameet's.

The forum members who bought it did so at risk and at their own discretion. Where is their responsibility for buying a major engine component without having any independent confirmation there is an issue, that the TPG part was thoroughly tested, and that it greatly reduced their risk? No offense to such members, but they jumped at a vendor marketing their own product without such independent testing.

Please, keep up the good service and tone down the rhetoric and personal attacks. Solid, evidence-backed statements are what is going to continue us moving forward.

While I do agree that his statements have been pretty strong and overly forceful; I would not let TPG fully off the hook here. They continue to over-inflate this issue more than is needed I think. They just posted a new thread here: http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1242178

In that they still claim that these failures are so common that it amounts to a design flaw that is a matter of when it will happen, not if. I understand that they are a business and want to make money but these kinds of scare tactics are really not needed I think.

[TPG Tuning]

How is making a new thread regarding a stronger piece over inflating the issue? This is clearly a widely talked about issue, so providing new ideas where we ask for forum feedback is scare tactics? Especially when stating in the second paragraph we are NOT offering a billet piece for sale to the public. Open discussion testing ideas and theories brought forth by the community promotes progress.

[jwzimm]

Originally Posted by TPG Tuning

How is making a new thread regarding a stronger piece over inflating the issue? This is clearly a widely talked about issue, so providing new ideas where we ask for forum feedback is scare tactics? Especially when stating in the second paragraph we are NOT offering a billet piece for sale to the public. Open discussion testing ideas and theories brought forth by the community promotes progress.

It is not a matter of you speaking about your solution. It is how you frame the problem in the first place. Lets take a look at some of the statements you made in your thread.

We have been working hard , like many others to find ways to address the crank hub issue prevalent in the new F8X S55 engine.

BMW has tried to utilize technology that had pretty good success on the N54/N55 engine on the new S55 engine, however the results have been dismal.

Upon modification ourselves as well as many others and even some stock cars have realize the torque applied from this bolt simply is not suffice enough to retain the position of these gears.

All of the above statements imply that a failure of the OEM design is all but a foregone conclusion. The data that is known simply do not support this. While there have been a few instances of this failure occurring the amount and frequency of them in relation to the number of F8x's on the road indicate that this failure is more the exception than the rule.

Your statements, from the beginning, have been quite alarming to say the least. You need to take care with how your present this problem to the community so as to avoid overblowing the issue. You are already on shaky liability footing in my opinion with the original design of your parts. As sponsor of this forum I would say that you owe it to us to be more careful in your statements.

[TPG Tuning]

Interesting. We have two very different viewpoints. I respect your point however I do not agree with it.

Maybe if you look at the topic objectively and constructively as we do, it makes reading what is written and the position we take , easier to understand. The thread is created to talk about the issue ourselves and others have experienced. The thread is created to provide a place for forum feed back and to help those who have had a failure , address that failure collectively.

You have the ability to read it how you choose. You have the ability to form your own opinion whether the information in the thread is pertinent to you or not. You have the ability to research and educate yourself. Everyone has the ability to read it and interpret it at their discretion. Our responsibility is to help better educate the people about the discussion at hand, however the responsibility ultimately falls on the reader to do what they will with that information.

The thread created is not a thread based on ," is this or is this not a issue". The thread created is there to talk about the failures and productively test and design ways of addressing it.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by TPG Tuning

Interesting. We have two very different viewpoints. I respect your point however I do not agree with it.

Maybe if you look at the topic objectively and constructively as we do, it makes reading what is written and the position we take , easier to understand. The thread is created to talk about the issue ourselves and others have experienced. The thread is created to provide a place for forum feed back and to help those who have had a failure , address that failure collectively.

You have the ability to read it how you choose. You have the ability to form your own opinion whether the information in the thread is pertinent to you or not. You have the ability to research and educate yourself. Everyone has the ability to read it and interpret it at their discretion. Our responsibility is to help better educate the people about the discussion at hand, however the responsibility ultimately falls on the reader to do what they will with that information.

This is a bunch of bunk!!! You are a vendor and a supposed expert. People look to you for your expertise. Then you say it is their responsibility to trust you or not?

[Mandi90TT]

Originally Posted by TPG Tuning

Interesting. We have two very different viewpoints. I respect your point however I do not agree with it.

Maybe if you look at the topic objectively and constructively as we do, it makes reading what is written and the position we take , easier to understand. The thread is created to talk about the issue ourselves and others have experienced. The thread is created to provide a place for forum feed back and to help those who have had a failure , address that failure collectively.

You have the ability to read it how you choose. You have the ability to form your own opinion whether the information in the thread is pertinent to you or not. You have the ability to research and educate yourself. Everyone has the ability to read it and interpret it at their discretion. Our responsibility is to help better educate the people about the discussion at hand, however the responsibility ultimately falls on the reader to do what they will with that information.

The thread created is not a thread based on ," is this or is this not a issue". The thread created is there to talk about the failures and productively test and design ways of addressing it.

How nice of you to imply that you are the one true word on this,a nd that anyone who disagrees with you is obviously biased.

You have made my list of vendors that I will never be buying from. Thanks for helping with that decision.

[TPG Tuning]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

This is a bunch of bunk!!! You are a vendor and a supposed expert. People look to you for your expertise. Then you say it is their responsibility to trust you or not?

How is that decision not solely in your hands?

[TPG Tuning]

Originally Posted by Dave 90TT

How nice of you to imply that you are the one true word on this,a nd that anyone who disagrees with you is obviously biased.

You have made my list of vendors that I will never be buying from. Thanks for helping with that decision.

I guess explaining our position to help people better understand what we mean is not acceptable.

We wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by TPG Tuning

How is that decision not solely in your hands?

How do any customers keep coming to you?

[V2.0]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

This is a bunch of bunk!!! You are a vendor and a supposed expert. People look to you for your expertise. Then you say it is their responsibility to trust you or not?

+1

To me it sounds like he's saying don't blame me if some people are Gullible . Lol

[M4 CSL]

Easy guys, remember TPG did not create this problem.

If I am 100% honest, after one year of trouble free, hard driving, I was truely believing that this was a problem caused by JB4. Let me clarify that remark, by saying not (Jb4 itself, just named as most popular) But by having a piggy with the ability to control boost. I was almost convinced that only JB4 people, would have the issue.

I have never had a piggy, and thought I would be fine and just when I was thinking it was a non issue at all, Boom.

Even though 6 months prior I had bought the TPG keyed hub as a precaution, I never got around to fitting it. So I can tell you now, the issue is real. I even asked advice of a well known BMW tuner, what he thought. He did not believe there was a problem at all, at the time. When my car fell over, I contacted him to ask what his opinion was on what was wrong, and he said, his car also just fell over. So now both of us believe. None of this is TPG's fault or anything to do with them.

I spoke to someone this morning who regularly tracks his car, and has had the TPG keyed hub on for over 7,000 miles and car is still going strong.

So my personal view is, that the one piece solution, will be enough for most people who mod. Lets be clear here, if you don't mod, you have no issue, its on BMW to fix your car. Its only an issue if you want to mod.

So no scare tactics, if you are 100% stock, BMW will cover you. Enjoy your car. If you are modding, then I suggest start reading.

I think we should cut TPG some slack. I believe their heart was in the right place, trying to fix an issue. At that time, there were very few cars with the problem. There are at least 12 that I know of now. Sure that is a tiny number. But it would be nice to have something that can put the issue to bed so we all can get on with enjoying our cars. I'm even sick of the spun hub threads. LOL. I want a solution.

Gintani are silent. They just have Instagram pics. I for one are thankful to TPG to share any insight they may have into this issue.

P.S. To TPG, I'm not American, but I will quote a famous American saying, "You can always tell the pioneers, they are the one's with the arrows in their backs."

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by M4 CSL

Easy guys, remember TPG did not create this problem.

No, TPG did not create "this problem", but they did create a "sky is falling" approach to get people to buy their "solution" then say that it's not their fault that people bought their product. Really???

Here is the verbiage that is still on their website about the crank hub:

Through the last few months the S55 platform has grown exponentially. From mild bolt-on cars to now having 600-700hp+ M3/M4's roaming the streets, it has been incredible to see the progress of these cars in such short time.

That being said, we have quickly realized a large issue that some, if not most of you are already aware of. The S55 crank timing gear has become a dangerous failure point. If you are not yet aware, let me explain.

The S55 , like many other BMW Engines, does not have a woodruff key locating the crank timing gear. The life or death of your engine is 100% determined by ONE bolt pressing the timing gear against the crank. With the incredible amount of Horsepower and Torque these engines are capable of, even with simple bolt on's , it quickly overcomes the pressure applied by this bolt. When this happens the timing gear spins on the crank, throwing your engine out of time. If this occurs , more often then not it will result in catastrophic engine failure.

What we have done is created a very simple, yet effective way to resolve the problem. Using OEM BMW Parts, we have created a keyed timing component to locate the crank timing gear, therefore eliminating crank gear slippage and allowing you to fully utilize the power capabilities of the S55 engine. It has been tested on everything from Stock Configuration cars, all the way up to the most powerful S55 powered cars in the world. This is sold as a kit, with everything needed to complete the job start to finish.

Now they say it's not their fault if people were stupid enough to buy into their snake oil approach?? I don't think people are being too harsh.

[M4 CSL]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

No, TPG did not create "this problem", but they did create a "sky is falling" approach to get people to buy their "solution" then say that it's not their fault that people bought their product. Really???


Now they say it's not their fault if people were stupid enough to buy into their snake oil approach?? I don't think people are being too harsh.

C'mon man, its harsh. They aren't saying that. They have publicly said they will give anyone back their money or upgrade them.

I'm fine with an upgrade. The problem still has to be fixed. Bashing them doesn't help anything. There was nothing but best of intentions I see here.

They put the thing on their own car. They obviously believed in it. It has actually worked for people who still have it. But I can see the one piece being even more reliable. I think we should cut them a little slack.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

So... what does this mean for someone looking to get a used BMW M4? I'm potentially on the lookout for a DCT M4 in the upcoming year.... should I be worried about this? I see only a couple of forum members have had this... so it's not much.

[M4 CSL]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

So... what does this mean for someone looking to get a used BMW M4? I'm potentially on the lookout for a DCT M4 in the upcoming year.... should I be worried about this? I see only a couple of forum members have had this... so it's not much.

If you have balance of warranty, stock car, nothing to fear.