Turbo oil leak.

[pdk111]

So my new to me 2016 M4 w/ 83k miles (yes I got a good deal)
is pretty spotless in engine bay and underneath.....Except turbo 1-3.
Pulled the shield and see evidence of a leak.....looks like coming from air input side. Other turbo is spotless. Obviously access is tricky, but anything else to
check? Performance wise seems fine; no codes, not going to detect oil loss given amount of miles it is driven in January.

Is this turbo toast, or this level of crud to be expected at this mileage?

Have a 90day/4kmiles used car warrantee so considering putting in the claim.

Comments?

[jpy1980]

Originally Posted by pdk111

So my new to me 2016 M4 w/ 83k miles (yes I got a good deal)
is pretty spotless in engine bay and underneath.....Except turbo 1-3.
Pulled the shield and see evidence of a leak.....looks like coming from air input side. Other turbo is spotless. Obviously access is tricky, but anything else to
check? Performance wise seems fine; no codes, not going to detect oil loss given amount of miles it is driven in January.

Is this turbo toast, or this level of crud to be expected at this mileage?

Have a 90day/4kmiles used car warrantee so considering putting in the claim.

Comments?

If I were you, I'd just go through warranty and let them take care of it, especially since you just got it.

[TopJimmy]

Warranty claim...all day long

[MR RIZK]

It is common and there are a few threads on it. Not definitive if fixed under warranty either.

Regardless bring it up so on record

[EGbeater]

Thought I'd just add on here, since there's already a recent thread titled "turbo oil leak" and pictures of what it looks like.

I found oil inside my front (cylinders 1–3) charge pipe upon removing them to install Mishimoto charge pipes and VRSF downpipes (for BM3 91 octage stage 2) but perhaps more concerning is the amount of oil sludge/dirt caked on the bottom of the turbo housing, again the 1–3 front turbocharger. No oil inside the rear charge pipe and rear turbo housing looks clean.

The amount of dirt/oil on the inside of the aluminum engine bottom cover plate is nowhere near the OP's though... so minimal that I didn't bother to take a picture of it.

My car is a 2016 M3 ZCP DCT, currently at about 39,150 miles; I bought it roughly a year ago with just over 33k miles. I use my F80 mostly for autocross and track driving. My car is not a daily driver. The drivetrain was 100% stock from 33,500 miles (except for drop-in K&N air filters, OEM charcoal filter removal, and Vargas crank bolt capture AKA VTT CBC) until 39,125 miles, when I went from the OEM tune to the "stage zero" BM3 M4GTS tune and M4GTS DCT flash.

In the last couple-three thousand miles (last fall), my car did two track day weekends—about 14 15-18 minute-long sessions—and a handful of autocross events, plus the highway driving (super mild, very rarely full throttle even for a couple-three seconds) to get to these driving events and maybe 120 miles of commuting.

After the second track weekend last season, I got a warning that my oil level was a full quart low... which surprised me, because a friend with a 2016 F80 M3 and higher mileage than mine did not have any oil burning with his track-driven car, even throughout the entire 2019 One Lap of America event (M. Melchior & C. Mayfield, 4th place overall): https://www.onelapofamerica.com/hist....do?eventId=39)

I did read this post by TopJimmy where he said:

If you do have any leaks they usually appear as cooked oil on a turbo housing, or a wet oil pan gasket or valve cover gasket.

Is there an o-ring or gasket at the turbo I should replace to see if it reduces or eliminates the leaking and gunk buildup?

I do not have a oil catch can and I have read through all five pages of this thread... still not feeling strongly that an oil catch can is 100% necessary or will prevent contamination/buildup on the valves. But as I understand it, a catchcan should have benefits from reducing blowby causing oil contamination of the mix going into the combustion chambers, inducing knock, causing misfires (if the spark plugs get coated) and also to reduce oil coating the inside of the IC.

Do you guys think my front turbo is dying/needs to be replaced, or just clean it up (the dirty turbo) and check again after the next few autocrosses + track day? Should I definitely add a OCC? If so, opinions on the BMS vs Turner vs Mishimoto catch cans for F80?

The plan is to go to BM3 91 octage stage 2 for track driving (I may stick with the stage zero M4 CS or M4GTS tunes for autocross) so the turbos will be getting more stress/boost than stock.

I should mention my car's dyno in June of 2020 seemed pretty strong/healthy (those are corrected figures of course):







Inside the (OEM) front charge pipe ends...





This was less than 3k miles after an oil change, after which I confirmed the crankcase was full, but after 4 days at the track (two weekends) and a few autocrosses and probably about 2k miles of gentle, max-MPG highway driving:

[RugbyBro]

Dang these leaks are pretty massive - I had a leak due to the intake o-ring going bad but it was really quite minimal and is just the blow by gas/oil leaking out (my post below for visualization). EGbeater yours looks like there's a pretty big leak somewhere else or there's some excessive crankcase pressure as that's a lot of oil. My intake pipes didn't remotely look like yours (only a thin film of oil as expected from blow by)

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...8&postcount=77

[EGbeater]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

Dang these leaks are pretty massive - I had a leak due to the intake o-ring going bad but it was really quite minimal and is just the blow by gas/oil leaking out (my post below for visualization). EGbeater yours looks like there's a pretty big leak somewhere else or there's some excessive crankcase pressure as that's a lot of oil. My intake pipes didn't remotely look like yours (only a thin film of oil as expected from blow by)

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...8&postcount=77

Thank you so much for providing that link; for some reason that "Turbo leaking, but dealer says nothing is wrong" thread didn't come up with my searching...

So, there IS an o-ring inside the compressor side of the turbo, and apparently it can get crispy and stop sealing well. Obviously blowby is not good, and replacing the o-ring isn't going to resolve the root cause of the oil leaking into the airstream of the front turbo/1–3 charge pipe, but I would still feel better if it didn't leak a ton of oil after cleaning.

Rugbybro what model year do you have and what was the mileage on your car when you discovered your oily turbo housing? And has replacing the oil ring resolved your oil leak?

So it's a 4-dollar part? But it seems like there's two different part numbers (different o-rings?) for the front and rear turbos?? What the fark BMW??

https://parts.bmwnorthwest.com/p/611...657850066.html
https://parts.bmwnorthwest.com/p/611...657850067.html

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by EGbeater

Thank you so much for providing that link; for some reason that "Turbo leaking, but dealer says nothing is wrong" thread didn't come up with my searching...

So, there IS an o-ring inside the compressor side of the turbo, and apparently it can get crispy and stop sealing well. Obviously blowby is not good, and replacing the o-ring isn't going to resolve the root cause of the oil leaking into the airstream of the front turbo/1–3 charge pipe, but I would still feel better if it didn't leak a ton of oil after cleaning.

Rugbybro what model year do you have and what was the mileage on your car when you discovered your oily turbo housing? And has replacing the oil ring resolved your oil leak?

So it's a 4-dollar part? But it seems like there's two different part numbers (different o-rings?) for the front and rear turbos?? What the fark BMW??

https://parts.bmwnorthwest.com/p/611...657850066.html
https://parts.bmwnorthwest.com/p/611...657850067.html

Yes those are the correct part #s (specifically part 4 for the front turbo) - it is a very cheap part $3-4 if you order online. I paid $8 from a local dealer due to shipping costs and delivery estimates. My regular dealer quoted me $28, to which I didn't even respond. You are correct that if you replace that o-ring, you will no longer have the leak however it won't address an excess oil/blow-by issue.

My car is a 2016 w/ 41k miles. I discovered it right after my warranty ended as I was installing a CBC as that was the first time that I had the skid plate off and I noticed a little bit of oil on the skid plate, looked up and bam there it was. I posted what mine looked like in the other thread as you've probably seen, seemed like a slow leak that had been there for a while. It's honestly probably a much more common issue than people realize since o-rings can and do get crispy

[EGbeater]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

Yes those are the correct part #s (specifically part 4 for the front turbo) - it is a very cheap part $3-4 if you order online. I paid $8 from a local dealer due to shipping costs and delivery estimates. My regular dealer quoted me $28, to which I didn't even respond. You are correct that if you replace that o-ring, you will no longer have the leak however it won't address an excess oil/blow-by issue.

My car is a 2016 w/ 41k miles. I discovered it right after my warranty ended as I was installing a CBC as that was the first time that I had the skid plate off and I noticed a little bit of oil on the skid plate, looked up and bam there it was. I posted what mine looked like in the other thread as you've probably seen, seemed like a slow leak that had been there for a while. It's honestly probably a much more common issue than people realize since o-rings can and do get crispy

Thanks for the info RugbyBro, so your car is roughly the same age and mileage as mine. Yeah my local stealership (Gebhardt BMW) wants ten bucks for these 4-dollar O-rings, SMH.

So I'm assuming yours looked at flat as mine? And a new one will have a convex profile slightly higher than the inner bore of the turbo inlet after reinstalling? My o-ring isn't so hard and stiff that it cracked on removal with a pick tool, as yours apparently did:

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by EGbeater

Thanks for the info RugbyBro, so your car is roughly the same age and mileage as mine. Yeah my local stealership (Gebhardt BMW) wants ten bucks for these 4-dollar O-rings, SMH.

So I'm assuming yours looked at flat as mine? And a new one will have a convex profile slightly higher than the inner bore of the turbo inlet after reinstalling? My o-ring isn't so hard and stiff that it cracked on removal with a pick tool, as yours apparently did:

Yeah $10 bucks ain’t that bad if you can get it right away. Most places will still charge you $5-10 for shipping so it may come out to a similar price anyway. Hence why I didn’t mind paying ~$10 for the new o ring I bought.

Yup the old o ring was flatter compared to the new one. There was more resistance when reinstalling the intake with the new ring vs removing the intake with the old one.

[spiceditup]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

Yeah $10 bucks ain’t that bad if you can get it right away. Most places will still charge you $5-10 for shipping so it may come out to a similar price anyway. Hence why I didn’t mind paying ~$10 for the new o ring I bought.

Yup the old o ring was flatter compared to the new one. There was more resistance when reinstalling the intake with the new ring vs removing the intake with the old one.

Can I ask how hard was it to get to the o-ring? I'm having the same issue. Any DYI? This is at 35k miles on a stock 2017 CZP, out of warranty.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by spiceditup

Can I ask how hard was it to get to the o-ring? I'm having the same issue. Any DYI? This is at 35k miles on a stock 2017 CZP, out of warranty.

Yup I'm planning on posting a DIY when I have some time this week - I haphazardly documented the process. Not too difficult tbh. Basically you get to the bottom bolt from the bottom and the top bolt from the top - you'll need to remove both airboxes (literally just pull up and out). The hardest part was getting the top bolt since my ratchet was about 2 inched shorter than an ideal ratchet for that cavity (TWSS). After then, you'll need to un-bolt the intake tube from the side of the engine so you can pull it out and move it out of the way. From there you just use a pick tool to pull the o-ring out, replace the o-ring, and reinstall everything in the reverse order.

[EGbeater]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

Not too difficult tbh. Basically you get to the bottom bolt from the bottom and the top bolt from the top - you'll need to remove both airboxes (literally just pull up and out). The hardest part was getting the top bolt since my ratchet was about 2 inched shorter than an ideal ratchet for that cavity (TWSS).

Like a lot of work on these cars, it's simple yet difficult/annoying and frustrating because of lack of access. Even with trying a complement of wobble extensions, that top nut that attaches the plastic air tube to the turbo is a bitch to get to. I couldn't figure out a way to get a standard box wrench on it either. I ended up using a standard Craftsman 1/4" ratchet with a 10mm deep socket (manipulated from underneath the car with the very tips of my fingers, two hands).

Maybe it'd be easy with a deep offset box wrench? Or a bendy (offset angle) "S"-shaped box wrench like this, working from the top?

https://www.jittruckparts.com/sunex-...h-suu-994000m?

The good news is that the two nuts aren't hard to break loose once you get a tool on them, and then once they're loosened, you can just twirl them off quickly with your fingertips...

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by EGbeater

Like a lot of work on these cars, it's simple yet difficult/annoying and frustrating because of lack of access. Even with trying a complement of wobble extensions, that top nut that attaches the plastic air tube to the turbo is a bitch to get to. I couldn't figure out a way to get a standard box wrench on it either. I ended up using a standard Craftsman 1/4" ratchet with a 10mm deep socket (manipulated from underneath the car with the very tips of my fingers, two hands).

Maybe it'd be easy with a deep offset box wrench? Or a bendy (offset angle) "S"-shaped box wrench like this, working from the top?

https://www.jittruckparts.com/sunex-...h-suu-994000m?

The good news is that the two nuts aren't hard to break loose once you get a tool on them, and then once they're loosened, you can just twirl them off quickly with your fingertips...

I got to the top nut by removing both airboxes, but my ratchet was a little shorter than I would have liked. I've got it on video, literally had to hold my ratchet with my finger tips and gently loosen and then tighten the top nut one ratchet click at a time - kind of funny actually. A long & skinny 1/4in ratchet would be ideal

[EGbeater]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

... but my ratchet was a little shorter than I would have liked. I've got it on video, literally had to hold my ratchet with my finger tips and gently loosen and then tighten the top nut one ratchet click at a time - kind of funny actually.

I had the same issue, "if I only had another 1/2" (that's what she said)

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

A long & skinny 1/4in ratchet would be ideal

Not worth buying the tool just for this job, but if you wanted it to be as easy as possible:

https://www.amazon.com/Powerbuilt-Re.../dp/B073WGMLLP

So, I asked my local stealership to order both the front turbo O-ring (PN 11657850066) and the rear turbo O-ring (PN 11657850067) to see what difference there is, if any...

Originally Posted by EGbeater

So it's a 4-dollar part? But it seems like there's two different part numbers (different o-rings?) for the front and rear turbos?? What the fark BMW??

https://parts.bmwnorthwest.com/p/611...657850066.html
https://parts.bmwnorthwest.com/p/611...657850067.html

And they are indeed different:



And here is my old (nearly 40k mile) 11657850066 turbo inlet O-ring vs the new one:



And in these pics, you can see the old O-ring after being squished into the groove of the compressor side inlet groove for 5 years has a maximum width/thickness of about 2.95mm, and the new part (still round in profile, not square) is about 3.4mm:





I cleaned off the bottom of my turbo as best I could (poor access; didn't feel like spraying brake cleaner all up in there and probably getting it in my eyes, even with safety glasses on... it's just what happens to me) and I'll check it out in about six months or so:

[Soner1975]

hello people, have a bmw F82 M4 93000km i have a problem that the car smells of oil and it smokes it comes from above where the charge pipe sit the smoke ... I took a few photos from below, the problem is that for me too O rings? or is the PVC broken? The car has full power and no other errors, drive MHD Stage 2+

[Samf82m4]

Reviving this issue as it seems to be super common and I have the same problem Besides the buildup on the bottom of the turbo? What affect would this have on the performance of the vehicle? From what I've read, it sounds like little to no real affect on the car.

[jagus]

Same problem here, just replaced the joint yesterday... Let's see if it prevents the leak

[Track/S]

Originally Posted by Samf82m4

Reviving this issue as it seems to be super common and I have the same problem Besides the buildup on the bottom of the turbo? What affect would this have on the performance of the vehicle? From what I've read, it sounds like little to no real affect on the car.

No affect.

[saikumarmeka]

Originally Posted by EGbeater

I had the same issue, "if I only had another 1/2" (that's what she said)


Not worth buying the tool just for this job, but if you wanted it to be as easy as possible:

https://www.amazon.com/Powerbuilt-Re.../dp/B073WGMLLP

So, I asked my local stealership to order both the front turbo O-ring (PN 11657850066) and the rear turbo O-ring (PN 11657850067) to see what difference there is, if any...


And they are indeed different:



And here is my old (nearly 40k mile) 11657850066 turbo inlet O-ring vs the new one:



And in these pics, you can see the old O-ring after being squished into the groove of the compressor side inlet groove for 5 years has a maximum width/thickness of about 2.95mm, and the new part (still round in profile, not square) is about 3.4mm:





I cleaned off the bottom of my turbo as best I could (poor access; didn't feel like spraying brake cleaner all up in there and probably getting it in my eyes, even with safety glasses on... it's just what happens to me) and I'll check it out in about six months or so:

Thank you for the write-up!! Do you have any updates after replacing the O-ring?

Looks like this issue this a common occurrence with 1st turbo rather than the 2nd, could it be assumed that this is due to the PCV line connecting to the fresh air pipe of 1st turbo? Oil fumes deteriorating the seal?

[h20rg]

Reviving this thread. Any update if replacing the o-ring resolved the issue?

[Track/S]

Originally Posted by saikumarmeka

Thank you for the write-up!! Do you have any updates after replacing the O-ring?

Looks like this issue this a common occurrence with 1st turbo rather than the 2nd, could it be assumed that this is due to the PCV line connecting to the fresh air pipe of 1st turbo? Oil fumes deteriorating the seal?

It seems that the o-ring they use is not made of Viton,
Viton o-rings do not usually get hard as is the case with the s55, and they are also matte, not shine.

The oil greatly deteriorates all the orings that are not Viton.

Originally Posted by h20rg

Reviving this thread. Any update if replacing the o-ring resolved the issue?

Solves the problem for a while, I would have to try a Viton o-ring, I am 99% sure that the problem would be solved forever.