Next Level Auto Brokers
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Forum > M3/M4 versus...

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      04-12-2017, 02:30 PM   #1
RaidersFan
First Lieutenant
94
Rep
356
Posts

Drives: 2013 M3
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Pac NW

iTrader: (0)

340i with mods - how close to M3 performance?

Hi everyone,

My fiance is due for an upgrade: her 335is is out of warranty shortly, and it is better to get 5 seats this time around.

We have been keen on getting a low mileage M3 or M4, but her new job requires a lot of mileage with only $.40/mile of reimbursement, which is not going to offset an M-car.

Questions: how would a modded (say, upgraded suspension) 340i compare to a stock F80 M3? How about her current 335is (which has Dinan sways). If, for example, we threw $3500 into coilovers and swaybar?

Looking at a manual in either: I assume the tranny is the same in the M3/340i?

This car won't see the track, but she is every bit the enthusiast. It can't suck, or be worse than her 335 is, otherwise, I will never hear the end of it!
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2017, 02:40 PM   #2
SD ///M4
///Multiple
SD ///M4's Avatar
United_States
2992
Rep
4,243
Posts

Drives: M4 Coupe | M3 | Z4M Roadster
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Diego, CA

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
My wife has a 335is Coupe. She's driven my M4 a lot over the last year, including on the track. Her car is due for replacement next year. She's replacing it with an M3. 'Nuff said.

"There's no substitute..."
__________________
The Coupe: 2016 M4 | Sakhir Orange | Black Full Merino Leather | CF Trim | M-DCT | More | ED 5/13/16
The Sedan: 2018 M3 | San Marino Blue | Black Full Merino Leather | CF Trim | M-DCT | ZCP | ED 7/18/18
The Roadster: 2006 Z4 | Interlagos Blue | Black Extended Nappa Leather | Carbon Leather Trim | Purchased 7/19/12

Appreciate 11
euro*1654.00
RobC2312.00
stormlv929.00
ttruong92215.00
theriz405.50
rr006rbc1203.00
M5Rlz248.50
amw896582.50
      04-12-2017, 02:45 PM   #3
Super Spartan
Colonel
Super Spartan's Avatar
1546
Rep
2,419
Posts

Drives: 2023 Nissan Z
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Dubai

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD ///M4 View Post
My wife has a 335is Coupe. She's driven my M4 a lot over the last year, including on the track. Her car is due for replacement next year. She's replacing it with an M3. 'Nuff said.

"There's no substitute..."
This! Get an M car and stop wasting money on making a normal one perform and look like an M car, it never will and you'll end up paying a lot in the process with no warranty on the mods you did and it won't really count when you come to sell the car so your money is lost unless you want to deal with the hassle of selling those upgrades yourself and refit the original parts....

Last edited by Super Spartan; 03-18-2018 at 12:27 PM..
Appreciate 8
RobC2312.00
Dinh335711.00
F831355.50
M5Rlz248.50
      04-12-2017, 02:56 PM   #4
knightarmor
Lieutenant Colonel
850
Rep
1,544
Posts

Drives: 2017 M3
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Washington

iTrader: (2)

It just doesn't compare is what these guys are saying and I would agree.
Appreciate 1
      04-12-2017, 03:03 PM   #5
M3 Geezer
Private First Class
M3 Geezer's Avatar
United_States
83
Rep
135
Posts

Drives: 2015 M3
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Williamsburg, VA

iTrader: (0)

Like Mr. Snappy Phoenix said "There's no substitute..."
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 1
      04-12-2017, 03:04 PM   #6
aX3Man
Private First Class
aX3Man's Avatar
202
Rep
134
Posts

Drives: 2022 X3MC
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

I went from a 2014 335i m sport w/ MPPK to a 2017 M3 ZCP 6mt.... it's not even close.
Appreciate 5
Agamemnon175.00
F831355.50
AG23250.00
      04-12-2017, 03:04 PM   #7
Gibson6594
Major
1092
Rep
1,262
Posts

Drives: 2016 SO M3
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

What's the old saying? The whole is greater than the sum of it's parts?
Appreciate 3
stormlv929.00
Polo088161593.50
SD ///M42992.00
      04-12-2017, 03:05 PM   #8
RickFLM4
Brigadier General
RickFLM4's Avatar
United_States
10885
Rep
4,816
Posts

Drives: M4
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: PB County, FL

iTrader: (0)

Maybe if you put an M3 / M4 badge on it...
__________________
Current: 2018 SO/SS F83 ZCP
Gone: 2015 SO/SO F82
Appreciate 4
stormlv929.00
Zermatt87.00
Kankles1484.50
      04-12-2017, 03:08 PM   #9
nicknaz
Lieutenant General
nicknaz's Avatar
3183
Rep
10,509
Posts

Drives: C6Z
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NorCal

iTrader: (0)

I think if you have enough mods to have ~420whp it will feel close in a straight line, and if you have that power level together with aftermarket full coilovers and more aggressive tires, then maybe it isn't worth the upgrade

stock vs stock, no comparison

BTW, why not get a 328d commuter, pocket the $ and get a full out sports car toy?
Appreciate 2
      04-12-2017, 03:08 PM   #10
SD ///M4
///Multiple
SD ///M4's Avatar
United_States
2992
Rep
4,243
Posts

Drives: M4 Coupe | M3 | Z4M Roadster
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Diego, CA

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Geezer View Post
Like Mr. Snappy Phoenix said "There's no substitute..."
He didn't say that, I said that. He quoted me.
__________________
The Coupe: 2016 M4 | Sakhir Orange | Black Full Merino Leather | CF Trim | M-DCT | More | ED 5/13/16
The Sedan: 2018 M3 | San Marino Blue | Black Full Merino Leather | CF Trim | M-DCT | ZCP | ED 7/18/18
The Roadster: 2006 Z4 | Interlagos Blue | Black Extended Nappa Leather | Carbon Leather Trim | Purchased 7/19/12

Appreciate 0
      04-12-2017, 03:13 PM   #11
CPWINCH
Brigadier General
CPWINCH's Avatar
United_States
732
Rep
4,635
Posts

Drives: Toyota Prius
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (7)

No where close..

Mod list:
Klassen ID MS01 18x10 square
Toyo Tires R888 275/35 square
BC Racing ER Series coilovers
BC Racing Camber Plates
Evolution RaceWerks Catless Downpipe
Evolution RaceWerks Intercooler
Evolution RaceWerks Chargepipe
Evolution RaceWerks upgraded Oil Cooler
Sparco Ergo II Seats
Burger Tuning JB4
RPI Exhaust
BMW Performance Diffuser
BMW Performance Spoiler
BMW Performamce Black Grills
RW Carbon 3D style front lip
Gutted Trunk
Rear Seat delete
Motorsport Hardware Stud Conversion


Ask me how I know

Current Car:


Even stock my M4 felt way better than my 435i with every modification did. The M car is on a whole different level. I drive 50+ miles a day and have to say that the 435i had way better gas mileage but the performance from the M4 is worth the extra money on gas per month.

Last edited by CPWINCH; 04-12-2017 at 03:34 PM..
Appreciate 11
rr006rbc1203.00
CanAutM321104.50
theriz405.50
ttruong92215.00
sh55219.50
Humdizzle6024.00
      04-12-2017, 03:31 PM   #12
SD ///M4
///Multiple
SD ///M4's Avatar
United_States
2992
Rep
4,243
Posts

Drives: M4 Coupe | M3 | Z4M Roadster
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Diego, CA

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaidersFan View Post
Questions: how would a modded (say, upgraded suspension) 340i compare to a stock F80 M3? How about her current 335is (which has Dinan sways). If, for example, we threw $3500 into coilovers and swaybar?
You realize that you asked this question in the F8x forum, right? For a balanced perspective, ask the same questions in the E9x and F3x forums.
__________________
The Coupe: 2016 M4 | Sakhir Orange | Black Full Merino Leather | CF Trim | M-DCT | More | ED 5/13/16
The Sedan: 2018 M3 | San Marino Blue | Black Full Merino Leather | CF Trim | M-DCT | ZCP | ED 7/18/18
The Roadster: 2006 Z4 | Interlagos Blue | Black Extended Nappa Leather | Carbon Leather Trim | Purchased 7/19/12

Appreciate 0
      04-12-2017, 03:33 PM   #13
Draper
Brigadier General
Draper's Avatar
3454
Rep
3,986
Posts

Drives: M4 Comp / Macan Turbo
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Denver

iTrader: (38)

The question you should be asking is what she wants...not what you want her to have.

The 340i will probably be a better commuter car, and you are unlikely to approach its limits while on public roads. The M3/M4 is total overkill, but that's the main reason we buy them.
__________________
Current: G82 M4 Comp xDrive // Frozen Deep Grey
Current: 95B.1 Macan Turbo // Dark Blue Metallic
Appreciate 1
koastal375.50
      04-12-2017, 03:48 PM   #14
neilum
Captain
897
Rep
753
Posts

Drives: 718 GT4
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Bergen County NJ

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
I think if you have enough mods to have ~420whp it will feel close in a straight line, and if you have that power level together with aftermarket full coilovers and more aggressive tires, then maybe it isn't worth the upgrade

stock vs stock, no comparison

BTW, why not get a 328d commuter, pocket the $ and get a full out sports car toy?
That's the issue, even if you did make that kind of power, the intercooler and cooling systems on the 340i would never keep up with the heat generated by the extra boost. The intake air temperatures would be unusable after 2 -3 pulls and it wouldn't make any where near 420 WHP anymore.

I had an N54 335 5 yrs ago with about 400 wheel HP and after 2 pulls I couldn't boost past 11 psi because the IAT's where too high. Then, I got an aftermarket IC, great I thought. Then, after 2 laps on the track the oil temps were above 260!

Then the brakes would be overwhelmed because they aren't 4/6 piston oversized drilled fixed caliper rotors.

The M literally has 7 coolers under the hood for heat management, there is too much to list to understand why you're better off just doing it right.


Plus there is way more to the M's handling/suspension than just coilovers, the entire front of the car feels like its built out of a piece of granite, it's just way tighter. You would never be able to reasonably replicate the responsiveness and buttoned down feeling the M has.
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2017, 03:54 PM   #15
neilum
Captain
897
Rep
753
Posts

Drives: 718 GT4
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Bergen County NJ

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD ///M4 View Post
You realize that you asked this question in the F8x forum, right? For a balanced perspective, ask the same questions in the E9x and F3x forums.
I am unbiased, I'll call a spade a spade and its just the truth.

Sure sometimes you will get unrealistic/biased answers but in this case its an easy one.

I'm just a believer in doing it right. I guess you would get somewhat close in performance under very specific circumstances, but it compromised from the beginning from various engineering perspectives.
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2017, 04:37 PM   #16
RobC2
Lieutenant
312
Rep
520
Posts

Drives: different makes and models.
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: NC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snappy Phoenix View Post
This, get an M car and stop wasting money on making a normal one perform and look like an M car, it never will and you'll end up paying a lot in the process with no warranty on the mods you did and it won't really count when you come to sell the car so your money is lost unless you want to deal with the hassle of selling those upgrades yourself and refit the original parts....
Completely agree with this.
Appreciate 1
      04-12-2017, 07:09 PM   #17
hanszilla
Lieutenant
United_States
281
Rep
473
Posts

Drives: 16 F80
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: OC

iTrader: (0)

Get a 328D, or the new 328 (or is it 330 now). The 8 speed transmission is so much nicer than the DCT in traffic; I daily my F80 and it is absolute shit in LA traffic. If she commutes a lot then bypass the M3/4 and get a cheap commuter; save the money and then get a full blown toy. For a commuter M3/4 is not exactly the best as the ride is slightly stiffer than the normal counterpart (either that or I'm getting old).

P.S that's the sensible side of me talking, and as you can see I don't have a a 328/330 commuter. So that shows that I don't take my own advice.
__________________
IG: Watsonandbears

Forevermore haunted by 2 bear pillows in the car.
Appreciate 0
      04-13-2017, 02:08 PM   #18
nicknaz
Lieutenant General
nicknaz's Avatar
3183
Rep
10,509
Posts

Drives: C6Z
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NorCal

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by neilum View Post
That's the issue, even if you did make that kind of power, the intercooler and cooling systems on the 340i would never keep up with the heat generated by the extra boost. The intake air temperatures would be unusable after 2 -3 pulls and it wouldn't make any where near 420 WHP anymore.

I had an N54 335 5 yrs ago with about 400 wheel HP and after 2 pulls I couldn't boost past 11 psi because the IAT's where too high. Then, I got an aftermarket IC, great I thought. Then, after 2 laps on the track the oil temps were above 260!

Then the brakes would be overwhelmed because they aren't 4/6 piston oversized drilled fixed caliper rotors.

The M literally has 7 coolers under the hood for heat management, there is too much to list to understand why you're better off just doing it right.


Plus there is way more to the M's handling/suspension than just coilovers, the entire front of the car feels like its built out of a piece of granite, it's just way tighter. You would never be able to reasonably replicate the responsiveness and buttoned down feeling the M has.
yup, I agree with you completely, when track usage is put in place, there is no comparison. I also had a modded N54 and had an F80 after that.

but OP is talking strictly for commuting, and in that case, you just need to do 1 pull to make a pass on the highway, and you aren't driving hard enough to max out the limits of a modded 335is or M3 anyway (or you really shouldn't be on public roads)

A fully depreciated 335 with mods is interesting to me as a commuter substitute to F80. There's a LOT of cash savings we are talking about, which could be used for many things, not least of which is an all out sports car to be used as a toy
Appreciate 0
      04-13-2017, 02:59 PM   #19
newbie340
Private
22
Rep
59
Posts

Drives: 2016 340i xdrive
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Jupiter, FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CPWINCH View Post
No where close..

Mod list:
Klassen ID MS01 18x10 square
Toyo Tires R888 275/35 square
BC Racing ER Series coilovers
BC Racing Camber Plates
Evolution RaceWerks Catless Downpipe
Evolution RaceWerks Intercooler
Evolution RaceWerks Chargepipe
Evolution RaceWerks upgraded Oil Cooler
Sparco Ergo II Seats
Burger Tuning JB4
RPI Exhaust
BMW Performance Diffuser
BMW Performance Spoiler
BMW Performamce Black Grills
RW Carbon 3D style front lip
Gutted Trunk
Rear Seat delete
Motorsport Hardware Stud Conversion


Ask me how I know

Current Car:


Even stock my M4 felt way better than my 435i with every modification did. The M car is on a whole different level. I drive 50+ miles a day and have to say that the 435i had way better gas mileage but the performance from the M4 is worth the extra money on gas per month.
Lol that post choice supportive bias doe...somehow I truly doubt it's a whole different level with those mods and I doubt any professional driver would agree
Appreciate 0
      04-13-2017, 03:11 PM   #20
CPWINCH
Brigadier General
CPWINCH's Avatar
United_States
732
Rep
4,635
Posts

Drives: Toyota Prius
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by newbie340 View Post
Lol that post choice supportive bias doe...somehow I truly doubt it's a whole different level with those mods and I doubt any professional driver would agree
your username is perfect because you definitely are a noob. First off you drive an X-drive and live in LA, really need it for all the snow we have been getting I track my cars and push them to the absolute limit. The regular 3 series and 4 series cannot match the M versions. The rear differential, dual clutch transmission, properly sized turbos and increased cooling make a huge difference. This car has better turn in response, better steering feel, way better power delivery, and remains cool lap after lap at the track. Yes i have had professional drivers drive my old build compared to regular M4 and they agree ot doesnt match up. Also i run faster laps in the M4 at the track. It truly is a better car. Im not sure you understand just how different the M is vs the standard cars
__________________
Follow my BMW instagram @CARMODIFICATION Let me know you are from bimmerpost and i'll follow back
Appreciate 2
CanAutM321104.50
ttruong92215.00
      04-13-2017, 03:57 PM   #21
newbie340
Private
22
Rep
59
Posts

Drives: 2016 340i xdrive
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Jupiter, FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CPWINCH View Post
your username is perfect because you definitely are a noob. First off you drive an X-drive and live in LA, really need it for all the snow we have been getting I track my cars and push them to the absolute limit. The regular 3 series and 4 series cannot match the M versions. The rear differential, dual clutch transmission, properly sized turbos and increased cooling make a huge difference. This car has better turn in response, better steering feel, way better power delivery, and remains cool lap after lap at the track. Yes i have had professional drivers drive my old build compared to regular M4 and they agree ot doesnt match up. Also i run faster laps in the M4 at the track. It truly is a better car. Im not sure you understand just how different the M is vs the standard cars
The M fan boys come out.

I drive an xdrive because I'm from the northeast and have only been in LA for 6 months and don't plan to be here the whole time I have this vehicle.

All of the differences you just stated were addressed by the mods you had on your 435. Also you had a 435 not 440 so hats not even being taken into account. I believe in legitimate differences between cars not "intangibles."

Also I have track package for whatever that is worth.
Appreciate 0
      04-13-2017, 04:45 PM   #22
Agamemnon
Captain
Canada
175
Rep
646
Posts

Drives: 2016 m3 ss2 zcp full leather
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Richmond BC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CPWINCH View Post
your username is perfect because you definitely are a noob. First off you drive an X-drive and live in LA, really need it for all the snow we have been getting I track my cars and push them to the absolute limit. The regular 3 series and 4 series cannot match the M versions. The rear differential, dual clutch transmission, properly sized turbos and increased cooling make a huge difference. This car has better turn in response, better steering feel, way better power delivery, and remains cool lap after lap at the track. Yes i have had professional drivers drive my old build compared to regular M4 and they agree ot doesnt match up. Also i run faster laps in the M4 at the track. It truly is a better car. Im not sure you understand just how different the M is vs the standard cars
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbie340 View Post
The M fan boys come out.

I drive an xdrive because I'm from the northeast and have only been in LA for 6 months and don't plan to be here the whole time I have this vehicle.

All of the differences you just stated were addressed by the mods you had on your 435. Also you had a 435 not 440 so hats not even being taken into account. I believe in legitimate differences between cars not "intangibles."

Also I have track package for whatever that is worth.
Nothing wrong with a 340i xdrive. Had one myself. Now I have an M3. Completely different deal. Drive one and you will see what us M fan boys are talking about. Everything about the car has been carefully considered and it will run at the track all day long.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:34 AM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST