BMW M Performance Suspension (HAS height adjustable sleeve over kit)

[AMOR]

Hi guys. How good is this kit for tracking? Is it a substantial improvement over stock ZCP? I’m debating between MPHAS vs coilovers. Preparing the car for track season. Main goals: lower the ugly front, stiffen up suspension, improve bodyroll and handling in turns. Also what are the realistic installation costs? I’ve read through the thread and some pay $600, others pay $1600. That is a crazy difference. I’m in the northeast. Thank you for advise.

[jdherman]

Originally Posted by AMOR

Hi guys. How good is this kit for tracking? Is it a substantial improvement over stock ZCP? I’m debating between MPHAS vs coilovers. Preparing the car for track season. Main goals: lower the ugly front, stiffen up suspension, improve bodyroll and handling in turns. Also what are the realistic installation costs? I’ve read through the thread and some pay $600, others pay $1600. That is a crazy difference. I’m in the northeast. Thank you for advise.

I installed the kit at the same time that I put on Ground Control camber plates and loved the results at the track. The lower center of gravity and better turn-in on corners was substantial. And, the HAS kit is under warranty.

[AMOR]

Originally Posted by jdherman

I installed the kit at the same time that I put on Ground Control camber plates and loved the results at the track. The lower center of gravity and better turn-in on corners was substantial. And, the HAS kit is under warranty.

Thanks for the feedback! I'm actually leaning towards MPHAS. I assume that a full coil-over system will give better results, but having the suspension under warranty is more important in my opinion. I got a dedicated track set of HRE wheels 18x10 ET25 and will be running a square setup with 275/35 NT01 tires to be able to rotate them. How much was the installation for you? Is the bodyroll and overall stability improved with MPHAS compared to stock ZCP? And do I really need those camber plates? I'm assuming to have 12-15 track days per season.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by AMOR

Thanks for the feedback! I'm actually leaning towards MPHAS. I assume that a full coil-over system will give better results, but having the suspension under warranty is more important in my opinion. I got a dedicated track set of HRE wheels 18x10 ET25 and will be running a square setup with 275/35 NT01 tires to be able to rotate them. How much was the installation for you? Is the bodyroll and overall stability improved with MPHAS compared to stock ZCP? And do I really need those camber plates? I'm assuming to have 12-15 track days per season.

I already replied to most of your queries in the PM you sent me. It seems like you'll keep on asking until you get the answer you want . If you've already made up your mind, just do it .

As I replied in the PM: camber plates are a must, especially with 12-15 track days per year and with NT01; lowering springs or coilovers certainly are not.

No one has been able to confirm the spring rates of the MP-HAS thus far. However, the consensus seems to be that they have the same rates as the CP springs. The improved grip and reduced roll is the result of the lowered center of gravity that results less weight transfer.

[AMOR]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I already replied to most of your queries in the PM you sent me. It seems like you'll keep on asking until you get the answer you want . If you've already made up your mind, just do it .

As I replied in the PM: camber plates are a must, especially with 12-15 track days per year and with NT01; lowering springs or coilovers certainly are not.

No one has been able to confirm the spring rates of the MP-HAS thus far. However, the consensus seems to be that they have the same rates as the CP springs. The improved grip and reduced roll is the result of the lowered center of gravity that results less weight transfer.

I’ve read through your PM carefully, it was very informative and thank you again! Still trying to figure out certain things. So camber plates can be used with stock suspension setup also? And they affect handling too or just made to help tires wear evenly?
As for MPHAS, if they have the same rates as CP then I might go another route. I have 2 front eibach lowering springs that were planned to be installed before I found out about MPHAS. I can try installing them first to lower center of gravity and see how the handling changes? They are a little softer than stock CP springs though.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by AMOR

I’ve read through your PM carefully, it was very informative and thank you again! Still trying to figure out certain things. So camber plates can be used with stock suspension setup also? And they affect handling too or just made to help tires wear evenly?
As for MPHAS, if they have the same rates as CP then I might go another route. I have 2 front eibach lowering springs that were planned to be installed before I found out about MPHAS. I can try installing them first to lower center of gravity and see how the handling changes? They are a little softer than stock CP springs though.

Yes, camber plates can be used on the otherwise stock suspension, that's what I ran on my previous E46 and E92. And yes, camber plates will provide different handling with more responsive turn-in characteristics, but the main benefit they provide is improved front tire wear.

I'd say the component that needs the most improvement on the vast majority of F8X is the one that resides between the seat and the steering wheel. The only way to improve that component is with more seat/track time .

The stock suspension is quite capable out of the box. Suspension tuning is a very complex and fine art, it is quite easy to actually make things worse. For instance, just chaging the front springs is not a smart idea that will upset the handling balance of the car. A stiffer suspension is not necessarily better either, it just depends what compromise you are after. In general terms, a stiffer suspension improves handling response while a softer suspension improves total grip. Lowering the car improves total grip by reducing weight transfer but reduces wheel travel, which can result in reduced grip under heavy bumps.

My car serves dual duty of DD and track. I am not willing to forego the convenience of the adaptive suspension, hence why lowering springs fit my bill. However, like I said previously, I did it mainly for cosmetics reasons, I did not feel the car absolutely needed them performance wise. And here again, it is acompromise. The MP-HAS combined the GC camber plates significatly increased NVH, which as taken some refinement away from the great stock CS suspension on the DD. If you wish to go the full coilover route, for sure, they will provide potentially better handling on the track but at the cost of a more jarring ride on the street. Further, depending on your experience level, it is quite likely you will not be able to really leverage the benefit they provide on track. I'd say the money is better spent towards more track time

[jdherman]

I agree with the previous responses you received. In particular, if you are doing that many track days you do need the camber plates. They’ll pay for themselves in reduced tire wear and you’ll enjoy the improved turning.

[AMOR]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Yes, camber plates can be used on the otherwise stock suspension, that's what I ran on my previous E46 and E92. And yes, camber plates will provide different handling with more responsive turn-in characteristics, but the main benefit they provide is improved front tire wear.

I'd say the component that needs the most improvement on the vast majority of F8X is the one that resides between the seat and the steering wheel. The only way to improve that component is with more seat/track time .

The stock suspension is quite capable out of the box. Suspension tuning is a very complex and fine art, it is quite easy to actually make things worse. For instance, just chaging the front springs is not a smart idea that will upset the handling balance of the car. A stiffer suspension is not necessarily better either, it just depends what compromise you are after. In general terms, a stiffer suspension improves handling response while a softer suspension improves total grip. Lowering the car improves total grip by reducing weight transfer but reduces wheel travel, which can result in reduced grip under heavy bumps.

My car serves dual duty of DD and track. I am not willing to forego the convenience of the adaptive suspension, hence why lowering springs fit my bill. However, like I said previously, I did it mainly for cosmetics reasons, I did not feel the car absolutely needed them performance wise. And here again, it is acompromise. The MP-HAS combined the GC camber plates significatly increased NVH, which as taken some refinement away from the great stock CS suspension on the DD. If you wish to go the full coilover route, for sure, they will provide potentially better handling on the track but at the cost of a more jarring ride on the street. Further, depending on your experience level, it is quite likely you will not be able to really leverage the benefit they provide on track. I'd say the money is better spent towards more track time

It is nice that you mentioned the importance of gasket between the seat and steering wheel, and I totally agree! I have a few years of professional go-kart racing experience back in the days when I was living in Europe, that helps a little. I'm pretty sure that the handling of CS suspension is marginally better than ZCP at the track. My car is DD too, I'm happy with it as a DD, and would like to keep the adaptive suspension also (hence my hesitation in regards to coil-overs) but at the track I'd like a little less bodyroll and better high speed stability. Here is a video of one of the track days from 2018 season:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gb5fr42Q0V4

Back then I was running bone stock on stock pads also, stock 20" ZCP wheels and only upgraded tires to MP4S. But as you can see from the video even at Sport+ firmest suspension settings car is a bit bouncy in the corners (maybe due to higher stock ride as you mentioned). That is why I was thinking about MPHAS.

Now I'm preparing for 2019 season more seriously and so far got the following parts that are waiting to be installed:
- EBC yellow stuff pads front and rear (might upgrade to Pagid RS29 if I feel the need)
- Stoptech SS brake lines with Motul RBF 600 fluid. I'm not planning on getting the BBK kit and hope that stock Steel brake discs will hold on.
- HRE FF15 18-10 wheels and NT01 275/35-18 square setup (might upgrade to full slicks later on)
- Suspension wise so far I only got 2 front lowering springs Eibach PRO Kit (EU version, Part # F11-20-031-09-FA). I know about the balance issue and that I need to replace the rears too, but on this car stock rear sits nicely in terms of ride hight, it's just the front that is jacked up. So I was thinking in throwing the eibachs to the front only and see how it goes. Those 2 springs are only $160 compared to $1200 MPHAS setup. If i'm not happy with how handling is affected I can always upgrade to MPHAS, correct? But at least i'll try the least expensive option first.

I agree with the previous responses you received. In particular, if you are doing that many track days you do need the camber plates. They’ll pay for themselves in reduced tire wear and you’ll enjoy the improved turning.

Added them to my list!

[SanchoDivine]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I already replied to most of your queries in the PM you sent me. It seems like you'll keep on asking until you get the answer you want . If you've already made up your mind, just do it .

As I replied in the PM: camber plates are a must, especially with 12-15 track days per year and with NT01; lowering springs or coilovers certainly are not.

No one has been able to confirm the spring rates of the MP-HAS thus far. However, the consensus seems to be that they have the same rates as the CP springs. The improved grip and reduced roll is the result of the lowered center of gravity that results less weight transfer.

Can't comment on spring rates but after driving stock ZCP suspension vs MPHAS back to back on COTA the MPHAS was much better by being more planted with way less body roll. If the spring rates are the same the improvements must be either from the lowered stance/lower center of gravity or that the suspension simply has less room to travel.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by SanchoDivine

Can't comment on spring rates but after driving stock ZCP suspension vs MPHAS back to back on COTA the MPHAS was much better by being more planted with way less body roll. If the spring rates are the same the improvements must be either from the lowered stance/lower center of gravity or that the suspension simply has less room to travel.

Answer: lower center of gravity

If it were because of reduced suspension travel, it would translate in a very choppy ride as the suspension would be constantly riding on the bump stops.

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by SanchoDivine

Can't comment on spring rates but after driving stock ZCP suspension vs MPHAS back to back on COTA the MPHAS was much better by being more planted with way less body roll. If the spring rates are the same the improvements must be either from the lowered stance/lower center of gravity or that the suspension simply has less room to travel.

So you installed the MPHAS on an otherwise stock ZCP?

If so, how has your experience been on real world roads?

[SanchoDivine]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

So you installed the MPHAS on an otherwise stock ZCP?

If so, how has your experience been on real world roads?

The BMW M Trackdays has both stock ZCP and a few MPHAS cars during the event. Lucky folks snag up the M performance upgraded cars.

I'm pretty happy with my car's ride but I upgraded a bunch of things as soon as the break in service was done so I can't really give a comparison between it before and after.

[dinonz]

I'm having the MP HAS installed next Wednesday - and gotchas or "while you're in there" things I should be aware of?

[gman_newyork]

Originally Posted by dinonz

I'm having the MP HAS installed next Wednesday - and gotchas or "while you're in there" things I should be aware of?

There should be no issues. Pretty straightforward install. The only thing that I would recommend is that you have the dealership set them to BMW recommended heights and once the car "settles" you can adjust from there. You will also want a 4 wheel alignment. I had mine done after the installation and then took it back two weeks later for them to double check the alignment after the car settled.

I came from a non EDC car and I felt an immediate difference in the ride. It's much smoother, feels more planted, improved handling (due to lower center of gravity) and that awful front wheel well gap is gone. Enjoy

[SanchoDivine]

Originally Posted by dinonz

I'm having the MP HAS installed next Wednesday - and gotchas or "while you're in there" things I should be aware of?

Ask them to apply beta link between the rear adjuster piece and the car so that it doesn't spin when attempting to adjust the height.

[Mrbangis]

Would BMW void the warranty if for example it was installed by reputable shops that we know of in the forum?

[Mrbangis]

Which dealerships in have you guys gone into in the SoCal area?

[dinonz]

Originally Posted by gman_newyork

There should be no issues. Pretty straightforward install. The only thing that I would recommend is that you have the dealership set them to BMW recommended heights and once the car "settles" you can adjust from there. You will also want a 4 wheel alignment. I had mine done after the installation and then took it back two weeks later for them to double check the alignment after the car settled.

I came from a non EDC car and I felt an immediate difference in the ride. It's much smoother, feels more planted, improved handling (due to lower center of gravity) and that awful front wheel well gap is gone. Enjoy

Yeah - was planning on getting the recommended heights, and going back for a second alignment after adjusting them in a few weeks.

[figure99]

Originally Posted by Mrbangis

Would BMW void the warranty if for example it was installed by reputable shops that we know of in the forum?

I know this was discussed & debated earlier in this thread... I believe the consensus was only the parts will be covered under warranty in that case (assuming you bought them from an authorized dealer/merchant). Labor will be covered as well if the dealer installs them.

[figure99]

Originally Posted by SanchoDivine

Ask them to apply beta link between the rear adjuster piece and the car so that it doesn't spin when attempting to adjust the height.

Definitely ask, but be prepared for them to say they will not do it since it's not explicitly stated within the install instructions from BMW. Hopefully you can convince them anyway... because it can be a royal PIA to adjust them without it. I need to adjust mine again, will probably borrow my friend's spring compressor just in case.

[mindspin311]

I bought my kit second hand and will install myself. RIP warranty.

[scott13]

The installation manual indicates that "in general the car must be upgraded to the latest I-level" prior to install. But is that necessary for a car with passive suspension? I'm having these put on next week and don't want to risk have my coding blown out by a flash upgrade unless it's really necessary. Can't think of any good reason why the flash would be necessary on a car without EDC???

Speaking of installing these on a car with passive suspension...anyone have any feedback on the before/after? Seems like many (most) have these on cars with EDC.