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      08-28-2019, 11:18 AM   #1
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How long do Hoosiers last?

Now that my RE-71s are done, I'm exploring alternative options to the Bridgestones or NT01s. How many HPDE days, sessions, heat cycles, etc. are people getting out of their Hoosier R7s before they are spent? Thanks.
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      08-28-2019, 11:53 AM   #2
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No personal experience but my TT buddies say ~5 days with a good alignment and hard driving but it's really track dependent.
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      08-28-2019, 03:02 PM   #3
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via Rennlist, where there are good discussions on the topic:



I've never run slicks. Unfortunately, R7's come in OE GTS sizes, so I'll probably be baited in at some point.

Based upon everything I've heard from users, they're crack when at their best. So "tire life" becomes redefined, that's the problem. No longer becomes how many days you can scrap out of them, like with an NT01, RE-71R, etc. that don't fall off nearly to the same extent. (Some of my best laps w/ NT01 were well into the wear cycle.)
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      08-28-2019, 04:30 PM   #4
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That graph is amazing

I used the BFG R1S on the old car on track which is close to the R7 in pace but has a little better longevity and of course A7's in an autocross setting. Unless you are competing there isn't really a point to using Hoosier crack, there are no trophies awarded at the end of track day. If you have deep pockets and want to use them more power to you though, they are friggin awesome but they won't last as long as 200TW stuff which are still pretty dang quick and fun to drive on. Also you'll need a decent amount of front camber or you'll shred the outside shoulders.
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      08-28-2019, 06:27 PM   #5
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Hi, for the Hoosier SM7, general consensus is they are really falling off after 5 heat cycles. People who want to win get a new set each race day

For the Toyo RR, the fall off is more limited and you can run them to the cords. People who want to win still get a new set each race day, but I personally have practiced on 20+ heat cycle tires.

Caveat: my experience is in SM (2400lb with driver/115whp)
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      08-28-2019, 07:21 PM   #6
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Ouch, 5 heat cycles. Assuming that means 5 individual sessions on track before they start diminishing. That's essentially one track day.

I run about negative 3.2 degrees of camber up front and could dial in more, as necessary, so that's not an issue. But having a tire last at it's peak just over 1 day and then only last a few more days before the grip is gone is a no-go.

I've only gotten about 4 - 5 days out of the RE71s before they were toast (even wear but no tread left and no grip left). Might have to go back to the NT01s as they just got better to the cords and lasted me a full season of 10+ days. Also, seems as though the consensus is that NT01s offer more grip and longevity than the Toyos.

I think I'm looking for a unicorn that has the grip of RE71s (or better) but is as consistent and with the longevity of the NT01.

Also, that graph is fantastic and seems so true.

Edit: I mis-understood regarding the Toyos. I thought you were referring to the R888R but on second look, you were referring to the slicks, RR. That's a good option to explore if it can last a little longer...

Last edited by dvas; 08-28-2019 at 07:30 PM..
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      08-28-2019, 08:11 PM   #7
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Yeah, Nittos may not be the best performing tire out there but there's so much benefits to using them over anything else.
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      08-28-2019, 10:52 PM   #8
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Pointy end Spec Miata is pretty crazy so I could definitely see the top guys swapping those out every other weekend!

Hankook RS4 are allegedly better for longer hauls on track than the rest of the 200TW stuff, lots of the Chump car guys I know really like them and from my experience most of the 200TW stuff don't really cycle out until you see cords.

Not sure what size wheel you are running but there is a 275/35/18 Goodyear F1 Supercar 3R (100TW) that I've heard very good things about, granted it was from people at Goodyear haha but they test at my hometrack at PittRace and some of the laps they are throwing down in Corvettes are insane.

Also if you want to get crazy with 60TW street tires there is the Pirelli Trofeo R in a 265/35/19 that runs a little big and might be a bit of cheater since it comes in special "Porsche" spec. These are almost as much as Hoosiers lol so maybe just hit that purple crack pipe.
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      08-29-2019, 03:09 AM   #9
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I recall something like 8-10 useful sessions in my E36 on R7ís. 2900 total weight. First 1-3 sessions definitely the fastest. Will have to get re-acclimated (and pay up) now that the hankook C51 are discontinued.

On an M4, Iíd suspect 5-7 useful cycles. Similar to Corvette et al.
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      08-29-2019, 07:26 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F80Speed77 View Post
Hankook RS4 are allegedly better for longer hauls on track than the rest of the 200TW stuff, lots of the Chump car guys I know really like them and from my experience most of the 200TW stuff don't really cycle out until you see cords.

Not sure what size wheel you are running but there is a 275/35/18 Goodyear F1 Supercar 3R (100TW) that I've heard very good things about, granted it was from people at Goodyear haha but they test at my hometrack at PittRace and some of the laps they are throwing down in Corvettes are insane.
One day in with RS4. Beat on them for 6 sessions, look like I just mounted. Not particularly fast out the gate. Might pick up pace after I shed some depth. Good, sharp feedback.

Same here on the 3R. GM stuff putting down stupid fast laps on 3R at my track. Strike me as budget Trofeo minus the Italian manufacturing factor. Tread design even looks Trofeo. Think Goodyear used the Z/28 OE Trofeo as the reference for development. Built on it and applied to ZL1 1LE.

Have yet to see any M guys run 3Rs.

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Originally Posted by dvas View Post
Edit: I mis-understood regarding the Toyos. I thought you were referring to the R888R but on second look, you were referring to the slicks, RR. That's a good option to explore if it can last a little longer...
E36 M3 guy I run with went from used Conti slicks to R888R. Can't say enough good. These seem very love-hate though, not sure what to make of them.
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      08-29-2019, 11:27 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
One day in with RS4. Beat on them for 6 sessions, look like I just mounted. Not particularly fast out the gate. Might pick up pace after I shed some depth. Good, sharp feedback.

Same here on the 3R. GM stuff putting down stupid fast laps on 3R at my track. Strike me as budget Trofeo minus the Italian manufacturing factor. Tread design even looks Trofeo. Think Goodyear used the Z/28 OE Trofeo as the reference for development. Built on it and applied to ZL1 1LE.

Have yet to see any M guys run 3Rs.



E36 M3 guy I run with went from used Conti slicks to R888R. Can't say enough good. These seem very love-hate though, not sure what to make of them.
I'm a frequent lurker on camaro6 forum so I really wanted to try the Goodyear's based on the feedback on that forum, but I don't remember there being any good sizes for the F8X.

Question to the hooiser/pirrelli users, when we say they start to fall off, how much quantitatively are we talking, 1-3 secs or more per lap? Never tried them myself so I'm wondering how "bad" they really are when they start to cycle out.
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      08-29-2019, 12:08 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron View Post
I'm a frequent lurker on camaro6 forum so I really wanted to try the Goodyear's based on the feedback on that forum, but I don't remember there being any good sizes for the F8X.

Question to the hooiser/pirrelli users, when we say they start to fall off, how much quantitatively are we talking, 1-3 secs or more per lap? Never tried them myself so I'm wondering how "bad" they really are when they start to cycle out.
Full list of sizes here: https://www.goodyear.com/en-US/tires...3r/sizes-specs I don't know if Tire Rack carries all of them.

Not sure what your track wheel setup is. Traditional 275/35-18 for square available. Could run 285/30-19 + 305/30-19 staggered on 19x10 + 19x11 Apex.
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      08-29-2019, 02:05 PM   #13
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I wouldn't bother making the switch to a Hoosier or more common Pirelli slick until you are trailering your car with an additional set of wheels and tires as a backup. Keep in mind you really can't bring a set of R7's and then an NT01/RE-71 as a backup because you'll kill the semi-slick with the amount of camber you need to run on the slick tire. I would always bring 2-3 sets of Pirelli DH slicks whenever I ran that configuration. There's nothing worse than getting excited for a track day, doing all the preparing, paying all the fees, and then having tire issues and cutting your day much shorter than you expected while feeling like you wasted time and money.

In my opinion, the drop off isn't so bad if you get them new or start with a good set of scrubbed tires and have them cambered correctly and heat them up/cool them down properly. They are much faster than the semi-slicks, which means they will also be much more sensitive in all aspects. We are spoiled with the abuse and neglect a tire like the NT01 can handle. Do not expect that from an R7 or DH. If your pressures are off even a little bit, you will notice a big difference.

Typically the first day is a great day, and the tire should be relatively consistent for the first 5-6 sessions. The second day, you will lose between 1-2 seconds on a 2-minute circuit depending upon how comfortable you are. The third day you're probably another 1-2 seconds off the pace, but given that they are about 4-5 seconds faster to begin with, you're still faster than a semi-slick tire at this point. For me, cornering speed was still good on the second and third day, but I would lose all of my time putting the power down out of low-speed corners as the rears don't have the grip anymore. All of this is assuming you aren't sliding the car at all, have proper temperatures, good warm-up and cool-down procedures, and dialed in alignment for your specific track.

At the end of the day, the slick takes a lot more effort to get right and much less effort to get wrong. Some people will like finding that balance and are ok with the occasional issue and others would prefer to enjoy the day and not worry about anything. I think it depends on which camp you fall into and how much you're willing to spend.
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      08-29-2019, 06:00 PM   #14
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Something unusual I saw in pricing tires was the Toyo RR in 295/30zr18 and 295/30zr19 were exceptionally cheap. I presume there is a volume discount applying here as it appears several spec classes use the RR as their standard tire.

I haven't dug too much into seeing if I can tuck a 295/30zr19 square setup on the GTS with camber plates and some spacers, more research is needed. $250/tire is very appealing if I can get 15-20 heatcycles out of them and still be faster than the Sport Cup 2s at the end of the RR's lifetime.
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      08-30-2019, 04:55 PM   #15
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For what itís worth, the winning SM at Sonoma are doing 1:56ish on the Toyo RR spec tire, and during a 200tw enduro I saw an SM doing 1:59 on re71r.

might be a much different spread of times in rwd cars with big HP like stock f8x, who are still traction limited on corner exit when on re71r

I havenít observed any f8x in competition groups here in NorCal at nasa or SCCA and will keep an eye out for you guys
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      08-30-2019, 06:18 PM   #16
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I found the Nitto's to be reasonably fast and consistent through out their tread life.
888R's are as fast when new but heat cycle out and drop off with quite a bit of tread left to go.
A lot of quick folks run the BFGbut I have no experience with them.

Unless your racing or have cash to burn the Hoosiers are a no go.

You could see if you can find some scrubs in your sizes. The continental is made by Hoosier. Reasonably affordable too.

Shoe
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      08-31-2019, 12:33 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continental02 View Post
I wouldn't bother making the switch to a Hoosier or more common Pirelli slick until you are trailering your car with an additional set of wheels and tires as a backup. Keep in mind you really can't bring a set of R7's and then an NT01/RE-71 as a backup because you'll kill the semi-slick with the amount of camber you need to run on the slick tire. I would always bring 2-3 sets of Pirelli DH slicks whenever I ran that configuration. There's nothing worse than getting excited for a track day, doing all the preparing, paying all the fees, and then having tire issues and cutting your day much shorter than you expected while feeling like you wasted time and money.

In my opinion, the drop off isn't so bad if you get them new or start with a good set of scrubbed tires and have them cambered correctly and heat them up/cool them down properly. They are much faster than the semi-slicks, which means they will also be much more sensitive in all aspects. We are spoiled with the abuse and neglect a tire like the NT01 can handle. Do not expect that from an R7 or DH. If your pressures are off even a little bit, you will notice a big difference.

Typically the first day is a great day, and the tire should be relatively consistent for the first 5-6 sessions. The second day, you will lose between 1-2 seconds on a 2-minute circuit depending upon how comfortable you are. The third day you're probably another 1-2 seconds off the pace, but given that they are about 4-5 seconds faster to begin with, you're still faster than a semi-slick tire at this point. For me, cornering speed was still good on the second and third day, but I would lose all of my time putting the power down out of low-speed corners as the rears don't have the grip anymore. All of this is assuming you aren't sliding the car at all, have proper temperatures, good warm-up and cool-down procedures, and dialed in alignment for your specific track.

At the end of the day, the slick takes a lot more effort to get right and much less effort to get wrong. Some people will like finding that balance and are ok with the occasional issue and others would prefer to enjoy the day and not worry about anything. I think it depends on which camp you fall into and how much you're willing to spend.
Thanks for the feedback!
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      08-31-2019, 03:37 PM   #18
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NT-01 has better wear and longevity than RE-71r and to me it's seems more sticky. It already makes the M2/M3/M4 pretty damn fast almost nearly as GT3 and Z06. Only downside compared to RE-71r is that it sucks in rain. BFG-R1 is I think a faster R compound tire but I'd assume it wears quicker. Slicks/Hoosiers needs more cambers like someone stated above and the car won't bestreet-able due to excessive wear on tires.
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      09-01-2019, 08:09 PM   #19
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NT-01 has better wear and longevity than RE-71r and to me it's seems more sticky. It already makes the M2/M3/M4 pretty damn fast almost nearly as GT3 and Z06. Only downside compared to RE-71r is that it sucks in rain. BFG-R1 is I think a faster R compound tire but I'd assume it wears quicker. Slicks/Hoosiers needs more cambers like someone stated above and the car won't bestreet-able due to excessive wear on tires.
Tell TCkline you cant drive Hooisers on the street! Once followed him back in an M2 on HooHoos from MidO, even got a few sprinkles of rain on the way.


Nah nittos really don't have any benefits over the 71s, longevity/wear. A C6 Z06 yes, but no it ain't touching a C7 Z06 and likely not a C8!

Sorry OP, we always get off topic.
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      09-01-2019, 10:54 PM   #20
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Tell TCkline you cant drive Hooisers on the street! Once followed him back in an M2 on HooHoos from MidO, even got a few sprinkles of rain on the way. +


Nah nittos really don't have any benefits over the 71s, longevity/wear. A C6 Z06 yes, but no it ain't touching a C7 Z06 and likely not a C8!

Sorry OP, we always get off topic.
You can bash me on Hoosier r compound. I should have said 'slicks.' What I wanted to say is slicks need a lot higher camber in order to not kill the shoulders on track and also likely more toe will be involved which would result in harsh inner side wear outside the track. I feel my NT-01 wears better than RE-71r on different car. R-comp or slicks are not very safe when rain develops puddles. You guys can always correct me as my experience is shorter (4years) than most of you seasoned track rats.

C6 Z06 is fast too if driver knows how to push it. But I am figuring out that very few in advanced group or even instructor group people really push there Corvettes or Porsches, which is understandable for their nice shiny a$$ cars. A lot of them have no idea how awesome our F8x was until I show 'em.
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      09-03-2019, 12:01 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyFragileHalogen View Post
You can bash me on Hoosier r compound. I should have said 'slicks.' What I wanted to say is slicks need a lot higher camber in order to not kill the shoulders on track and also likely more toe will be involved which would result in harsh inner side wear outside the track. I feel my NT-01 wears better than RE-71r on different car. R-comp or slicks are not very safe when rain develops puddles. You guys can always correct me as my experience is shorter (4years) than most of you seasoned track rats.

C6 Z06 is fast too if driver knows how to push it. But I am figuring out that very few in advanced group or even instructor group people really push there Corvettes or Porsches, which is understandable for their nice shiny a$$ cars. A lot of them have no idea how awesome our F8x was until I show 'em.
Just giving you a hard time man!
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      09-03-2019, 05:18 PM   #22
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Just giving you a hard time man!
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