Who is considering the 2020 Corvette?

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by Obioban

... do you not believe this? Most of the non V6 Camaros specs are faster than the GTS on track, and the Vette is a considerable step up from them...

Too much direct experience to believe it. Familiar with, big fan of all of GM's latest. Currently own and tracked a Z/28 for a season. Run with Z51, SS 1LE, Grand Sports, etc. All awesome and massive performance for $. Can't say a bad word about them.

Don't believe the smash and grab GTS lap times. There's more there. It'd be a heroic drive for a stock Z51 to hang with the GTS on most tracks.

[ra2289]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Oh, come on!... Do you really believe this? Stock for stock with GTS in factory track spec?

It'll never happen, but agree, BMW should make factory track performance accessible like the Americans have.

1LE pack for the ZL1 gets you all of the track performance that you could want for 7500. (GTS did deliver some additional bits -- cage, carbon ceramics, unique interior bits.)

What Porsche has going on with the 718 would be a good pricing model for BMW, I think. Base model is ~60k, range-topping, track-ready GT4 is 100k. I'm in at that price for a future GTS/CSL.

C8 Grand Sport will be 80-90k? BMW needs to get with the times.

Good points and it would be awesome, but all very unlikely—which is really unfortunate. Don't see why American car companies can pull this off but the Germans can't, or probably more likely, won't.

If I didn't need four doors I'd be interested in the C8, excited to see how it performs. Can't wait for the upgraded models.

[Fugly M3]

I definitely am!

[MaynardZed]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Think you are onto something here. Just chased a 991.2 RS during a session, then had a ride later on.

Car is basically a superhero. Will do whatever you ask of it, stress free. I'm sure plenty of skill is required at the very limit, but to turn seriously fast laps does not require great effort. Same is not true of the M4.

Is grappling with the laws of physics vs. conquering an enjoyable element of the track experience? Having both options would be ideal I suppose.

On the C8 -- look forward to evaluating fit as well. 6'2", tried a C7 Grand Sport on like 2 or 3 times in showrooms, and just couldn't feel right in the cabin. Felt cramped in every direction.

Also will be interesting to see if the mid-engine layout means a total change in character. Take the Vette into the Porsche end of the dynamic spectrum, i.e., away from the M4, C7 Z06, Camaro, etc. Cars you have to wrestle for limit performance...

Sat in the new C8 at Midway Chevy the other day, and it’s a no go for me because of my height. I’m 6’4” with a long torso, and I like to track my cars. My head (no helmet on) was literally hitting the roof crossmember. I would suggest any tall guys sit in the car before you order. I’ve heard guys with long legs and arms are fine, so really depends on your build. I’m 300lbs also, no problems width wise In the C8 for me. I could fit if I rip the seats out and put recaros in, but that sort of defeats the purpose of the car for me.

[Fuller]

Originally Posted by ra2289

Good points and it would be awesome, but all very unlikely—which is really unfortunate. Don't see why American car companies can pull this off but the Germans can't, or probably more likely, won't.

If I didn't need four doors I'd be interested in the C8, excited to see how it performs. Can't wait for the upgraded models.

American car companies pull this off by, generally, compromising on build quality. Sit in a camaro, mustang, vette, etc, then sit in an m3. The difference will probably be readily apparent.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by Fuller

American car companies pull this off by, generally, compromising on build quality. Sit in a camaro, mustang, vette, etc, then sit in an m3. The difference will probably be readily apparent.

C8 interior looks pretty nice so far. Not nice "for a corvette", but just actually good-- especially with 3LT.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by Fuller

American car companies pull this off by, generally, compromising on build quality. Sit in a camaro, mustang, vette, etc, then sit in an m3. The difference will probably be readily apparent.

What does interior build quality/materials have to do with the cost of a functional track prep package?

But on that point, wouldn't say there's an appreciable quality difference between my GTS interior and a current gen ZL1, for example. Other than the orange cage.

ZL1 1LE pack costs $7,500. There no justification for BMW charging 10x that for the same sort of track readiness.

[ra2289]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

What does interior build quality/materials have to do with the cost of a functional track prep package?

But on that point, wouldn't say there's an appreciable quality difference between my GTS interior and a current gen ZL1, for example. Other than the orange cage.

ZL1 1LE pack costs $7,500. There no justification for BMW charging 10x that for the same sort of track readiness.

I'd tend to agree with Formula, I'm talking more performance per dollar.

However, depending on what options you have, M3 interiors aren't the pinnacle of best materials either, definitely areas where the material choices could be better considering the price. This is all personal opinion/preference of course so YMMV.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Fuller

American car companies pull this off by, generally, compromising on build quality. Sit in a camaro, mustang, vette, etc, then sit in an m3. The difference will probably be readily apparent.

I got Camaro SS rental car often enough for work when I had my f80 (cloth seats)

Can’t say I saw that much different between the interiors of Camaro or f80 or that I cared to look and press all the interior parts to find any potential differences.

Anyway, I would rather compromise on interior trim that performance, if any compromise was needed.

Obviously, we might prioritize differently

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

I got Camaro SS rental car often enough for work when I had my f80 (cloth seats)

Can’t say I saw that much different between the interiors of Camaro or f80 or that I cared to look and press all the interior parts to find any potential differences.

Anyway, I would rather compromise on interior trim that performance, if any compromise was needed.

Obviously, we might prioritize differently

The qualitative difference was there in spades a couple generations back, but not anymore. That presumed contrast still has momentum, but the C8 will no doubt close the quality gap even more.

Had an '03 E39 M5. This was a Cadillac Deville interior from the same year...



Fundamentally different layout of course, but is the base M3/M4 interior leagues ahead of this? I don't see how. I think dudes are still picturing the '03 deville.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

The qualitative difference was there in spades a couple generations back, but not anymore. That presumed contrast still has momentum, but the C8 will no doubt close the quality gap even more.

Had an '03 E39 M5. This was a Cadillac Deville interior from the same year...

Fundamentally different layout of course, but is the base M3/M4 interior leagues ahead of this? I don't see how. I think dudes are still picturing the '03 deville.

I agree with you. And I appreciate that while you have an M4 GTS you are giving competitors credit where it’s due.

It might be due to specific choices I made to have the cloth interior and stock Carbon trim, but some top shelf Hyundai and Kia products with two tone leather and fancy stitching looked more up market than my ‘15 m3 interior. The seat shape was definitely a bmw advantage.

There’s also the reality for some people that regardless of car and interior, interior will get partially stripped to accommodate half cage, harnesses and aftermarket fixed back seats to accommodate harnesses and get more helmet room. Might as well start with the platform with the most Perfomance potential rather than nicer interior in that use case

[paliknight]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

I agree with you. And I appreciate that while you have an M4 GTS you are giving competitors credit where it’s due.

It might be due to specific choices I made to have the cloth interior and stock Carbon trim, but some top shelf Hyundai and Kia products with two tone leather and fancy stitching looked more up market than my ‘15 m3 interior. The seat shape was definitely a bmw advantage.

There’s also the reality for some people that regardless of car and interior, interior will get partially stripped to accommodate half cage, harnesses and aftermarket fixed back seats to accommodate harnesses and get more helmet room. Might as well start with the platform with the most Perfomance potential rather than nicer interior in that use case

Agreed. If performance is your priority since you track, race, etc, then like you said, interior isn't a deal breaker.

For the guys that daily though, interior is more important than performance.

Visually a Cadillac, Chevy, Ford, etc May look similar to a bmw (interior), but once you feel everything (steering wheel, door panels, knobs, glove box, screen GUI, etc) you'll immediately notice a difference in quality and refinement.

If the reliability is there though, I think the C8 is a great value regardless of whether Chevy comprised the interior/exterior quality or not.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

The qualitative difference was there in spades a couple generations back, but not anymore. That presumed contrast still has momentum, but the C8 will no doubt close the quality gap even more.

Had an '03 E39 M5. This was a Cadillac Deville interior from the same year...



Fundamentally different layout of course, but is the base M3/M4 interior leagues ahead of this? I don't see how. I think dudes are still picturing the '03 deville.

This is an odd criticism I know, but I have always hated GM steering wheels. They always look so grocery getter/unsporty to me for some reason.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by minn19

This is an odd criticism I know, but I have always hated GM steering wheels. They always look so grocery getter/unsporty to me for some reason.

That Deville wheel doesn't make you reconsider your opinion!?

Agreed... GTS/CS wheel is perfection. And if we get into ergonomics, BMW is better than any Chevy I've experienced.

[BluM4]

I never care about Corvette but 0-60 for 3s and 1/4 for 11.3s get my attention. The NA V8 with a mid-engine setup sounds good too. Cannot wait.

Btw, F80/82 interior is never the strong points.

[nicknaz]

So, I’m not considering c8 z51 because of the rumormill articles released about z06

We expect the C8 Corvette Z06 will use a naturally aspirated version of the engine that will supposedly rev to 8600 rpm and develop in excess of 600 horsepower

This engine will help the Z06 return to its roots as a lightweight, naturally aspirated, high-revving, rear-drive, track-focused car. We believe that, as in our illustration above, it will have a wider body than the standard Stingray to cover its wider wheels and tires.

F YEA ‘MURICA !!!

[Funf6cyl]

Originally Posted by MaynardZed

I might get a C8 if I can fit in it nicely with my helmet on. At 6'4" and a long torso, it was a little snug in the M4, but I did just barely fit. That car was an absolute hoot on the track, like a drift car, you had to really drive it to get good lap times.

The 991 Porsche I have now, has WAY more room than the C6 and C7 vettes and a even more than the M4. Hopefully Chevy got their heads out of their arses and made more cockpit room in the C8. My only complaint with the Porsche is that maybe its too good? I mean I can turn 2-4 seconds faster lap times in it than the M4 and its very easy. This is just a Carrera GTS with a manual, I can only imagine a GT3 with a PDK.

I really don't get involved in this silly biased brand loyalty. A good car is a good car. To blindly write off a certain make because of perceived inferiority and prejudices, just shows a lack of intelligence and insight. Yeah, Chevy's were kind of crap back in the 70-80's compared to BMW and the like, but the quality gap has closed dramatically. I used to think Hyundai and Kia were cheap crap, but they're actually really nice normal cars now that rival Honda and Toyota in quality.

You have a .1 car, right? .2 and/or PDK would be even faster too. They are just such dialed in cars despite being heavily developed more towards the GT side - even more so now in the 992. They just kill it on track as you know well it sounds and can do it all day whereas other cars drop off.

I think the C8 will be a good car, but my guess is it won’t be the cohesive and honed in car something like a 718 is let alone the upcoming GT4 as it’s hard to touch Porsche on execution, driving thrill and making sure everything is in perfect harmony with everything else.

I’d potentially consider one without a doubt.

[Fuller]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

I got Camaro SS rental car often enough for work when I had my f80 (cloth seats)

Can’t say I saw that much different between the interiors of Camaro or f80 or that I cared to look and press all the interior parts to find any potential differences.

Anyway, I would rather compromise on interior trim that performance, if any compromise was needed.

Obviously, we might prioritize differently

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

What does interior build quality/materials have to do with the cost of a functional track prep package?

But on that point, wouldn't say there's an appreciable quality difference between my GTS interior and a current gen ZL1, for example. Other than the orange cage.

ZL1 1LE pack costs $7,500. There no justification for BMW charging 10x that for the same sort of track readiness.

I was just stating potential reasons for the price gap between the brands. For performance, it goes without saying that GM already offered a lot for the money, and appear to be bumping things up another notch with the C8.

For build quality, I suppose most manufacturers, including bmw, probably use as much cheap material as they can get away with for a given model and price point.

[TrevorM3]

Originally Posted by Fuller

American car companies pull this off by, generally, compromising on build quality. Sit in a camaro, mustang, vette, etc, then sit in an m3. The difference will probably be readily apparent.

yea, lets listen to the guy who drives a 435.


i won't consider the regular c8, but the z06 proably. currently have a C7Z. This car pretty much always wants to remove your spinal cord at all times, so i'm curious as to what the new one will do.

[MaX PL]

car is questionable based on reviews.

1. DCT tuning poor.

2. Braking not as good as C7.

3. Understeers, but apparently that'll be engineered out with the GS/Z06.

and more I'm forgetting.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by MaX PL

car is questionable based on reviews.

1. DCT tuning poor.

2. Braking not as good as C7.

3. Understeers, but apparently that'll be engineered out with the GS/Z06.

and more I'm forgetting.

I don't know... Looks/sounds pretty good here for a first attempt. Does repeatedly understeer in the slow final corner. Sure that can be largely mitigated with technique.

Another. Will say <1 second gain around Grattan is a bit underwhelming despite the reviewer putting that gap into a race context. Can't underestimate the experiential gains though. Know which one i'd rather drive.

[nicknaz]

0-60 in 2.8s and 11.3@121mph is legit for a base model $65k car

Understeer probably baked in to keep people safe. This is likely the fastest car a lot of people have ever or will ever drive, because it’s pricing is like 1/3 or 1/2 of the comparably powerful mid or rear engined car

I think z06 will be setup a lot more aggressively and will be a beast.