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      05-14-2019, 07:38 AM   #1
bimmerboyE92
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Sell my F80 w/ track mods and get M2C?

What would you do?

My F80 is strictly for track duty with the only road use being transport to nearby mechanics. The only mods being coilovers, camber plates, and brake pads.

The 4yr/50k mile warranty ends in Dec 2019.

Iím thinking of either buying an extended warranty and get a half cage, race buckets, and harnesses. Or sell it and get an M2C and do all the same mods right off the bat.

Is the M2C a better track duty car? For what Iíve read, yes. But Iím already this far in with the F80.
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      05-14-2019, 08:03 AM   #2
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Where have you read the M2C is a better track car than the M3? This is the first I’m hearing or reading this.
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      05-14-2019, 08:47 AM   #3
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Not a direct comparison so to speak. But Iíve read how the M2 was praised for its more nimble handling and better feel over the civic F8X. And now the M2C is just more in the same package. Laptimes are not everything.
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      05-14-2019, 09:05 AM   #4
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Curious as well about the comparison. OP, a 1 day M school might be best to answer your question as they use both cars.
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      05-14-2019, 10:04 AM   #5
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Why either as a track day only car?

I'm not sure there is much of a difference though. Weight is the same or more for the M2C, and it will not take as much tire. Stock to stock it may be better, but with coilovers, monoballs, etc... I bet they are very very similar.
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      05-14-2019, 12:39 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerboyE92 View Post
Not a direct comparison so to speak. But I’ve read how the M2 was praised for its more nimble handling and better feel over the civic F8X. And now the M2C is just more in the same package. Laptimes are not everything.
I've driven both vehicles at the limit in a closed circuit (track) environment and the M2 did not blow me away vis-ŗ-vis the M3/M4. It does feel more nimble and tossable; however, the performance gap between the models is immediately noticeable. I realize lap times are not everything but I'm still not sure - after a couple of years - why the M2 is hailed by some as a better M3/M4. For all intents and purposes, the dimensions are nearly identical between both cars but the M2 has less power.

From my perspective, there is limited to no cannibalization. The M2 is a product of market segmentation. Don't be fooled by the marketing and hype.
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      05-14-2019, 04:58 PM   #7
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Iíd go with extended warranty and keep your current car

Unless you have tracked it so much that you have reason to believe you have or will wear out your current car
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      05-17-2019, 01:54 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark_Kent View Post
I've driven both vehicles at the limit in a closed circuit (track) environment and the M2 did not blow me away vis-ŗ-vis the M3/M4. It does feel more nimble and tossable; however, the performance gap between the models is immediately noticeable. I realize lap times are not everything but I'm still not sure - after a couple of years - why the M2 is hailed by some as a better M3/M4. For all intents and purposes, the dimensions are nearly identical between both cars but the M2 has less power.

From my perspective, there is limited to no cannibalization. The M2 is a product of market segmentation. Don't be fooled by the marketing and hype.
I believe he was talking about the M2 competition as opposed to the regular m2
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      05-17-2019, 07:16 PM   #9
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I've driven the F80 and F82 at multiple bmw events dating back to 2014 up to last year. The F87 M2 at that time last year was my favorite of the three even though it didn't have as much power. I since purchased an F87 M2 Comp and while the sound it makes is the same garbled mess that the S55 is known for...it's the better car in my opinion and a quick flash tune sets it above.

Also I will never understand why track out/gut/cage a 4 door car when it has the availability to come in a 2 door variant on purchase.

My opinion is get the M2C
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      05-17-2019, 09:15 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerboyE92 View Post
My F80 is strictly for track duty with the only road use being transport to nearby mechanics. The only mods being coilovers, camber plates, and brake pads.
Many things are not adding up in the above paragraph.
F80 is not a great choice for track only car as it's far too big and too heavy.
It's a great street/track sedan compromise, but as a 99% track rat, you can definitely do better, cheaper, and faster.

Start by picking a class, and observing what cars are popular for that category:
https://www.scca.com/



Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerboyE92 View Post
Iím thinking of either buying an extended warranty and get a half cage, race buckets, and harnesses. Or sell it and get an M2C and do all the same mods right off the bat.

Is the M2C a better track duty car? For what Iíve read, yes. But Iím already this far in with the F80.
You are not very far with F80, maybe $2-3K. It's depreciating 2x that much every year, just by sitting in the garage.

Start with the overall budget, and search from there!

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      05-17-2019, 09:21 PM   #11
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That's where I was kinda at. My company requires me to have a 4 door car. I want my 4 door car to also be my track car ala M3. If I was looking for a track day car, I can think of a ton of cars that would be better.

Cayman S
Miata
S2000
C6 corvette
C7 stingray
E46 M3
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      05-17-2019, 09:36 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackey View Post
That's where I was kinda at. My company requires me to have a 4 door car. I want my 4 door car to also be my track car ala M3. If I was looking for a track day car, I can think of a ton of cars that would be better.

Cayman S
Miata
S2000
C6 corvette
C7 stingray
E46 M3
Well, although these cars are all very nice, for purposes of sharing the sport with my significant other, and the benefits of DCT... Miata, S2000, and E46 are out. Not really much of a Corvette guy and most have there own issues. P-car.... hmmm.
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      05-17-2019, 10:09 PM   #13
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Gotcha. So auto / pdk / DCT is a must. My wife races as well. Has actually had her own racecar

Hmm...

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Last edited by blackey; 05-17-2019 at 10:16 PM..
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      05-18-2019, 11:40 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afadeev View Post
Many things are not adding up in the above paragraph.
F80 is not a great choice for track only car as it's far too big and too heavy.
It's a great street/track sedan compromise, but as a 99% track rat, you can definitely do better, cheaper, and faster.

Start by picking a class, and observing what cars are popular for that category:
https://www.scca.com/





You are not very far with F80, maybe $2-3K. It's depreciating 2x that much every year, just by sitting in the garage.

Start with the overall budget, and search from there!

a
Cheaper I kinda question. I can get an 8yr warranty on what I have. And itís paid. And I know where itís been and cared for. Budget wise, Iíve looked and for what I can sell it for vs buy something. Why not make an F80 a track rat? Track camber = no street driving.

Iím sure when the E46 M3 came out nobody wanted to track it out. But now look? And itís a gradual process. Next steps are seats and half cage.
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      05-18-2019, 05:35 PM   #15
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I'm headed that direction eventually, but it's still a 3600lb+ car you are starting with. It also cuts a fairly big hole in the air compared to something like a Miata. That being said, it's a pretty darn quick car, just plan on consumables being expensive as the the car will eat brakes, fuel, etc...

I do wonder though what a really track prepared car could get down to. I'm talking bare frame, sandblased, remove all extraneous brackets, use a drexler diff, motec ecu, bosch abs, carbon doors, trunk, hood, etc... so you could gut every bit of wiring and just go with the absolute essentials. Probably close to 3000lbs, but I also think I just spent the better part of 150K-200k in two sentences!
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      05-18-2019, 07:00 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackey View Post
I'm headed that direction eventually, but it's still a 3600lb+ car you are starting with. It also cuts a fairly big hole in the air compared to something like a Miata. That being said, it's a pretty darn quick car, just plan on consumables being expensive as the the car will eat brakes, fuel, etc...

I do wonder though what a really track prepared car could get down to. I'm talking bare frame, sandblased, remove all extraneous brackets, use a drexler diff, motec ecu, bosch abs, carbon doors, trunk, hood, etc... so you could gut every bit of wiring and just go with the absolute essentials. Probably close to 3000lbs, but I also think I just spent the better part of 150K-200k in two sentences!
For that amount, might be better to just keep the car as a DD/HPDE car and buy a GT3 as a track car
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      05-19-2019, 01:56 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackey View Post
Gotcha. So auto / pdk / DCT is a must. My wife races as well. Has actually had her own racecar

Hmm...

Cayman S
911
Alfa Romeo 4C
Nissan GT-R
I donít know for sure, but even used examples in similar condition as my F80 all cost more.
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      06-02-2019, 09:27 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark_Kent View Post
...but I'm still not sure - after a couple of years - why the M2 is hailed by some as a better M3/M4. For all intents and purposes, the dimensions are nearly identical between both cars but the M2 has less power.

From my perspective, there is limited to no cannibalization. The M2 is a product of market segmentation. Don't be fooled by the marketing and hype.
Well said. Lots of marketing, parts bin sharing and model regurgitation going on in this picture! There are very few technical reasons why an M2 Comp would be superior to an F8X in any performance measure when both are compared in stock form. Maybe on a tight Auto-X course the M2C would nip the F8X but anywhere else the added power and wider tires would make up for the slightly heavier weight.

I am a huge fan of the M2C and likely should have bought one instead on my F82 but only because it is less expensive and funky looking, not because it statistically superior.
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      06-03-2019, 08:33 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark_Kent View Post
Where have you read the M2C is a better track car than the M3? This is the first I’m hearing or reading this.
This

The M2C weighs more and is smaller than the Civic M4. Why is this better?

Unless a smaller car weighs substantially less I'll take the larger one every day. More space for tires inside, more space for junk, more stable handling due to the longer wheelbase
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      06-03-2019, 10:14 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
This

The M2C weighs more and is smaller than the Civic M4. Why is this better?

Unless a smaller car weighs substantially less I'll take the larger one every day. More space for tires inside, more space for junk, more stable handling due to the longer wheelbase
?

The shorter wheelbase of the M2 is probably a big reason why is feels more tossible on track versus an M3/4. A longer wheelbase is NOT necessarily a good thing for a track car, makes it more lazy to rotate. The M2 has approximately the same wheelbase (106") as an E36 M3, four inches shorter than an M3/4. FWIW, a Porsche 991's wheelbase is even shorter, at 96". They do pretty well on track.

My suggestion is look at the type of race tracks you frequent. If they are more tight and technical, the M2C might be there better choice. If they are faster, flowing, more horsepower tracks, the M3 might be the way to go.
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      06-03-2019, 10:38 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaynardZed View Post
FWIW, a Porsche 991's wheelbase is even shorter, at 96". They do pretty well on track.
They do? It's rare to find a fast 991 but I've definitely never seen someone rotate one, at all.

You do not need to make a car easier to rotate. If you are driving fast enough you will have rotation whether it's a M2C or a M4. You do not need to artificially seek shorter wheelbases, the car wants to rotate anyway

Last edited by SYT_Shadow; 06-03-2019 at 10:43 AM..
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      06-03-2019, 11:01 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerboyE92 View Post
Cheaper I kinda question. I can get an 8yr warranty on what I have. And itís paid. And I know where itís been and cared for. Budget wise, Iíve looked and for what I can sell it for vs buy something. Why not make an F80 a track rat? Track camber = no street driving.

Iím sure when the E46 M3 came out nobody wanted to track it out. But now look? And itís a gradual process. Next steps are seats and half cage.
By the spring of 2005 I had converted my 2003 (August delivery) e46 M3 into a dedicated track car
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