Skip winter tires entirely? What say you?

[m3rick]

I know it's only September but my mind has already fixated past fall to winter. Here's my question for the experienced M3 owners out there.

Background:

Earlier this year bought the M3 with the ZCP 666 wheels (MANUAL) and detest the idea of paying good money to swap them out for an uglier winter step up.

I used to have a 328i with a "competition package" but those were 18 inch wheels. Also in manual. When it snowed it was absolutely useless -- until I discovered that all I needed to do was turn off traction control.

With traction off the wheels would spin freely and predictably and eventually catch the ground and I could get going and skate around. Stopping was admittedly difficult, but snow and ice is on the ground a handful of times during the winter so whatever. I live in Northern VA/DC.

Question:

How much different will it be with the M3? Is snow is a no go or just tricky - (in which case maybe I'll plan to work from home on snow days or use uber).

If I do uber on snow days I'll still be driving the 666s on cold ground the other days - but that should be fine, yes? Anything else I need to be aware of?

[Pauldunlop13]

Originally Posted by m3rick

I know it's only September but my mind has already fixated past fall to winter. Here's my question for the experienced M3 owners out there.

Background:

Earlier this year bought the M3 with the ZCP 666 wheels (MANUAL) and detest the idea of paying good money to swap them out for an uglier winter step up.

I used to have a 328i with a "competition package" but those were 18 inch wheels. Also in manual. When it snowed it was absolutely useless -- until I discovered that all I needed to do was turn off traction control.

With traction off the wheels would spin freely and predictably and eventually catch the ground and I could get going and skate around. Stopping was admittedly difficult, but snow and ice is on the ground a handful of times during the winter so whatever. I live in Northern VA/DC.

Question:

How much different will it be with the M3? Is snow is a no go or just tricky - (in which case maybe I'll plan to work from home on snow days or use uber).

If I do uber on snow days I'll still be driving the 666s on cold ground the other days - but that should be fine, yes? Anything else I need to be aware of?

One set of winter tires is cheaper than 1 minor accident caused by lack of grip

I personally don’t like the grip of summer tires below 45 degrees. Regardless of snow

I bought a set of the 18” with winter tires for my 2015, and then moved them onto my 2019. So the upfront cost is a factor, but it diminishes over time.

I daily drive and only avoid the ‘over 1 foot’ of snow dropped overnight. I can work from home

I know I feel more comfortable driving on winters from Oct-May

[Pauldunlop13]

What is the torque difference between the 328 and the M3 (406tq)
?

[m3rick]

Originally Posted by Pauldunlop13

What is the torque difference between the 328 and the M3 (406tq)
?

Well I had a 2008 with 200 lb ft of torque so the torque on the M3 is more than double. But you'll have to enlighten me on why you ask.

[jd__m4]

Originally Posted by Pauldunlop13

I personally don’t like the grip of summer tires below 45 degrees. Regardless of snow

^This. Even if you avoid driving in the snow, the grip on the summer tires (at least the stock Conti's, I'm sure the MPSS's are similar), is pretty terrible. On days when it dropped below 50, I drive like an old lady because you can feel the lack of grip.

Just do yourself a favor and either get a beater for the winter, or get a dedicated set. Last winter in PA I did fine with Conti DWS06's- not even a dedicated winter tire, just a good all season. On the few snow days we had I just avoided driving it. Other than that, it drove completely fine all winter.

[jd__m4]

Originally Posted by m3rick

Are you saying getting a set including wheels, (which I'm sure you understand the aesthetic drawback), or simply putting a different tire on the 20" and avoiding snow days?

Get a dedicated set of winter tires and 18"/19" wheels. You can probably find a set of 513M's with winters in the classifieds, I always see those pop up. Or pick up something like Apex 19"s and some winter tires. They'll still look good and you won't hate driving the car in cold weather.

Trust me, when you approach 40* out, you feel it!

[m3rick]

Are you saying getting a set including wheels, (which I'm sure you understand the aesthetic drawback), or simply putting a different tire on the 20" and avoiding snow days?

[m3rick]

Originally Posted by eyeamgrewt

Get a dedicated set of winter tires and 18"/19" wheels. You can probably find a set of 513M's with winters in the classifieds, I always see those pop up. Or pick up something like Apex 19"s and some winter tires. They'll still look good and you won't hate driving the car in cold weather.

Trust me, when you approach 40* out, you feel it!

Ah. Good to know. Thanks! Since we're on the subject, any ballpark on what I should budget upfront, and annually, for the mounting?

[pokerface]

It's not just snow you need to avoid, you also want to watch out for ice and rain. Also gets tricky in variable weather. Even with winter tires, this car would rotate from a standstill on ice just letting out the clutch.

Daily driver? I would get winter tires.

[jd__m4]

Originally Posted by m3rick

Ah. Good to know. Thanks! Since we're on the subject, any ballpark on what I should budget upfront, and annually, for the mounting?

The cost of a winter set will probably run you $2kish? Maybe more, maybe less. I've seen folks sell sets here for $1500 with plenty of tread left. A winter set will probably last you a couple/few winters. Once their mounted...they're mounted. Just swap em yourself next season.

[Rewted]

18" square setup winters are a MUST if you get any snow accumulation in your region. Well worth the cost, not to mention most insurance companies offer a +5% discount on your policy if you use winters.

Source: Me, Canadian winter driver.

[Pauldunlop13]

Originally Posted by m3rick

Well I had a 2008 with 200 lb ft of torque so the torque on the M3 is more than double. But you'll have to enlighten me on why you ask.

Disabling traction control on a car with 200 tq is different than disabling it on a car with 400tq. Especially when grip is low due to the cold ground. The TC is not utilized as much under 300 tq

My full set from BMW ran $2500.
Winter Wheels. 640M
Front. 18x8.5 et 27
Rear. 18x9 et 29
Winter Tire size
Front and Rear 255/40/18
I store them in my garage and change them myself, so until I need new tires, the cost is not ongoing.

I also drive in Efficient and D1 during cold days. I call it Winter Mode, since I hate it any other time.

[allinon72]

Bad choice to roll the dice.

[Pauldunlop13]

Originally Posted by Rewted

18" square setup winters are a MUST if you get any snow accumulation in your region. Well worth the cost, not to mention most insurance companies offer a +5% discount on your policy if you use winters.

Source: Me, Canadian winter driver.

Agreed. Previous 22 years of CDN driving. Now 9 years of Colorado driving.

[NYG]

Bad decision.

If you had all-seasons you'd be at a 50/50 risk in an F8X..... but summer tires??? The rubber is useless below ~40-50F.

Your 328 probably had all-seasons on them and turning off traction control to make the car driveable is a bad sign. It means there's significant slip happening.

Get a winter set and save yourself the regret.

[swagon]

I'm from mainland Europe where we have snow, maybe sometimes less than you get in your winter belt during snow storms but most people run dedicated winter tires. They're legally required, even.

Get those.

The M3 is good in the winter. They're made for that shit. I run 18" OEM winter set wheels. It's got a trick LSD so better than open diff garbage.

DTC mode is recommended to be used (even it says that in the owners manual) in the snow as traction control cuts too much power off in certain circumstances.

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

if you expect to drive it everyday; then yes you need snow tires.

If you can work from home or have back up cars where you can wait for all the liquid off the roads than yes/maybe.

buy a beater or snow tires.

[M3PedalG]

Do yourself a favor and listen to the excellent advice you’ve received here. Why put yourself or the M3 at risk.

If you’re a cheapskate like me, then do what I did. I regularly checked the used wheel and tire section on this site and Craig’s List until I found a good deal on a quality set. I was lucky enough to score a used 640 winter set up from BMW (#12 post) for 750.00 amazingly used only for one season. The seller was desperate to get rid of them as he no longer had the car and he was moving from one house to another.

There’s more than just one good deal out there you just have to find it or negotiate it. With so many leases expiring there is always opportunity. Also, make sure to look for an 18” set for a little extra side wall if your roads are riddled with pot holes.

[cionide]

Originally Posted by m3rick

I know it's only September but my mind has already fixated past fall to winter. Here's my question for the experienced M3 owners out there.

Background:

Earlier this year bought the M3 with the ZCP 666 wheels (MANUAL) and detest the idea of paying good money to swap them out for an uglier winter step up.

I used to have a 328i with a "competition package" but those were 18 inch wheels. Also in manual. When it snowed it was absolutely useless -- until I discovered that all I needed to do was turn off traction control.

With traction off the wheels would spin freely and predictably and eventually catch the ground and I could get going and skate around. Stopping was admittedly difficult, but snow and ice is on the ground a handful of times during the winter so whatever. I live in Northern VA/DC.

Question:

How much different will it be with the M3? Is snow is a no go or just tricky - (in which case maybe I'll plan to work from home on snow days or use uber).

If I do uber on snow days I'll still be driving the 666s on cold ground the other days - but that should be fine, yes? Anything else I need to be aware of?

I bought a second set of wheels and tires for winters (vredestein). I tried to drive kids to school with 2cm of snow on the road, and turned back home after about 400 meters. Maybe the tires were too new or something, or I dont know, but in that experience I had never driven a car this useless on snow. I'm probably going to buy a 4x4 winter beater this year.

[Pauldunlop13]

Originally Posted by cionide

I bought a second set of wheels and tires for winters (vredestein). I tried to drive kids to school with 2cm of snow on the road, and turned back home after about 400 meters. Maybe the tires were too new or something, or I dont know, but in that experience I had never driven a car this useless on snow. I'm probably going to buy a 4x4 winter beater this year.

We’re these new winter tires? Or All (no) Seasons
Big difference
Tires can’t be too new in my opinion...
The pressure could have been too high. When they mount them, they usually crank them up to 45 psi to get a good bead. You need to check when you get home and adjust them down. High psi affects the grip in the cold way worse than in the summer.

I drive all winter with proper winter tires without any issues

[m3rick]

Update.

For those wondering about skipping it. I didn't buy a winter set for the M3's Comp's first winter in DC/NOVA and it drove fine on cold roads, although I don't drive that much in general. We don't get much snow here during the winter, and it's easy enough to avoid driving on those days. Folks in Canada, Michigan, etc. are another story.

Still WANT (not need) to get the winter set up next year, purely to drift around the neighborhood on snow days.

That would obviously be sexy although unnecessary, based on my experience. If you can avoid snow, you can manage on 20 inch wheels and summer tires all year in the northeast corridor. (I assume no responsibility if you can't adjust your driving accordingly and hurt yourself though)