03-24-2015, 01:33 PM | #68 |
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I suspect that most negative comments from reviewers of the F8X comes down to the same general "issue".
The F8X has a composite feel to it instead of a metal feel ( not to say it's made entirely of plastics ) . Plastics has many great aspects to it, it's light, strong, perfect in shape and it's durable with no oxidation etc. However it's also a dead/clinical material which transmits less natural feel than metal. It also has an inherent "cheap" feel of robotic mass production instead of classic mechanical engineering craftsmanship. When I was a little kid I had many toy cars. One of my favorites was a 1964 die cast Mustang convertible. Not because Mustangs were my favorite car, far from it but due to how the car felt. It was not the "fastest" or highest quality ( though I think it was Corgi Toys ), the doors squeaked when opened and the rubber clad tires could' not out-roll any of the plastic cars perfectly shaped low friction wheels but it had this feel of being lovingly and well engineered and it just felt good in the hands when holding and operating. The F8X is awesome in many ways but to me it lacks some in feel, I still like it a lot and it's a worthy M3, just of a new era which take some time to fully get used to. Last edited by solstice; 03-24-2015 at 01:39 PM.. |
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03-24-2015, 01:40 PM | #69 |
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I don't think so. I really don't want a car that large again at this point. Granted it's about the size of the E39 (large enough!), but it "feels" a lot bigger from behind the wheel with the long, high hood and very high rear deck level, etc. I love the way "older" cars feel wrapped tight around you like the E39, E90, my S4, etc, but I too am old, so I guess that makes sense. I'd probably have issues with the steering too (on closed course events of course) after having talked with two people who likely have more track time than anyone in the F80 over the past year (no names) with decades of experience (not to mention TC Kline's comments about the same issue)...both of them said that you kind of get used to the poor feedback approaching/at/over the limits of adhesion up front since you have to accommodate to that since there is no other option, lol, you just deal with it, carefully at first.
Of course the F8x isn't competitive in SCCA autocross classed in B-street. On many courses I think it is likely slower than the E9x even (which is in F-street) which is a wonderful car for F-street competition. The length and width of the F8x combined with its over-bearing torque are all hindrances to medium to fast autocross courses. Trying to put down power coming off elements with all that torque is a challenge, sort of similar to the E39 M5 which just can't wait to spin the rears with its barroom brawler type of low-midrange torque (of course the F80 is even more brutish in that respect). The E9x M3 is capable of top overall PAX times in the right hands, and is a hot mount at the current time. We're looking to replace my wife's E90 330i, having owned it now for over 9 years and 130k miles, and the M2 is first on that list. It will be interesting to see what (if any?) improvements they've managed to build into the EPS take two on the M2. Hence I'm thinking of a major juggling coming up -- selling the M5 (after 12 years, will be very hard to do) and selling the 330i to make room for the M2. Who knows though, I may just supercharge the M5 and keep it another 12 years!
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03-24-2015, 02:10 PM | #70 |
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This article means nothing to me, this will be my first ever BMW so I only have my old S4 to compare one to so I will not know if it is clinical or not, I just know that it will be fast and it looks amazing.
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03-24-2015, 03:01 PM | #71 | |
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I've changed my mind regularly about the M2 and F80. The M2 is at the top of my list, because like you, the F80 just feels big to me. And it's not really practical enough to be my only "big" car because of my 2 dogs (an M3 Touring would have been PERFECT). The only concern with the M2 would be the price. Since it doesn't look like it'll be getting a CF roof or an S engine, I hope BMW prices it accordingly. Then the other thing is that adding an M2 to my E36 M3 Coupe and E92 M3 will = 3 coupes. At least an F80 would change it up a little. I guess the only way I'll figure it out is when I test drive an M2 when it comes out. P.S: Selling an LMB E39 M5? You better not. That's instant regret!
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03-24-2015, 08:03 PM | #72 | |
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If I was in the market for a sedan to replace my M5 or M3 here in 2015, and it was to be a new car, I would absolutely buy the F80 M3, hands down. 6MT of course. I don't know of *any* current production 6MT sedan that even comes close to checking all the boxes the F80 M3 checks. It's a fantastic car, and I'm sure it would be greatly enjoyable to own. Like all the other generations, you enjoy it for what it is and don't fret over what it's not. If Ford could build a GT350 sedan...that might be an interesting option though.
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03-24-2015, 08:53 PM | #73 |
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The m3 is the best option available and I love 90% of it
Downsides are its too big and heavy. The size is really the only thing that bothers me. Outside of that it's fantastic imo |
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03-24-2015, 08:55 PM | #74 | |
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03-24-2015, 09:08 PM | #75 | |
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I think even if I keep the m3 for 1 million miles, I still wouldn't spend $17k on my factory steel brake replacements. I honestly think I a few years it would be harder to get a good price on a f8x without CCB since if the owner knew about the replacement cost of the CCB and the car is on its original set with a few track days and 40k+ miles.... He would likely spend thousands in the near future to replace them . |
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03-24-2015, 09:46 PM | #76 | |
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03-24-2015, 10:51 PM | #77 | |
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The only only only downside to this car is the kinda numb steering. But it's SO accurate, and responsive, this ends up being a MINOR complaint. Honestly, the weight reduction is instantly noticeable, and punches up the driving experience significantly over the E90. But. I digress. We've covered this. Endlessly...
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03-25-2015, 12:59 AM | #78 | |
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03-25-2015, 06:51 AM | #79 | |
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Just like at the track, the driver is a huge component of the equation. (spoken as a 40 year autocrosser, 35 year track/time trial/instructor). Regards, Chuck
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03-25-2015, 06:55 AM | #80 | ||
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Everything has to be taken in context. Line up the M3/4 alongside its comp (in the US) and again the level of engineering is unreal for the price. The engine, the chassis, suspension, electronics, options etc etc. T |
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03-25-2015, 06:55 AM | #81 | |
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As to the E9x M3 competitiveness at the national level, I guess you don't follow SCCA events and Nationals? In 2013 an E9x M3, driven by a board member here (see the threads in the E9x section here under track/autocross section) came within a hair of winning 1st overall in F-stock. He won the 2nd day course outright. That woke up everyone. Since then the E9x M3 has done very well at many events, including winning at the San Diego Pro Tour just the weekend before last and PAXing near the top of the field. Hence it's bizarre to "doubt" the potential of the platform when there are already proven results to the contrary.
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03-25-2015, 07:56 AM | #82 | |
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your original posts made it seem like you were saying the e9x was a superior performance platform for auto-x. now, you clarify that the e9x advantage is because it is in a lower class/group if I am reading your post properly. that's a pretty important distinction, thanks for clearing it up. personally, im much faster in my f8x on any track than my e9x, but im just an average driver.
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03-25-2015, 08:15 AM | #83 | |
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The SCCA classed the car in B-street simply due to their guess of where to put it (like how they originally had the E9x M3 in A-stock). It will be interesting to see if any top level drivers actually prep one and bring it to an event. The competition in B-street is huge and spread amongst S2000 and C5 Vettes that are kings in that arena. In reality the F8x likely belongs in F-street.
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03-25-2015, 08:39 AM | #84 |
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If Sam Strano can do it in Mustangs and Corvettes, I'm sure someone can do it in a F8X.
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03-25-2015, 09:15 AM | #85 | |
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The larger front bar will help with turn-in and transitions along with making it easier to hook up the rear under side loads. Still don't think B-street will work for it though, sadly. It needs to be in F-street most likely. I'd love to try out a setup F8x if anyone has one for a co-drive locally. The THSCC has our novice school this weekend if anyone in the area is new to the sport and interested.
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03-25-2015, 09:42 AM | #86 |
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This is good stuff - I'm about to start my f8x "racing" experience in the Philly SCCA autocross courses which are far more accessible to me for full day events with a 5 month old and 2.5 year old at home.
My experience in autocross is very limited but I very mildly disagree with Chuck's assessment. This car can put down power very nicely but yes, it requires lots of skill with the direction of the car, loading on the tires, and throttle input. HOWEVER, from what I understand and my experience with the f80 over 9-10k miles now, is: 1. The diff is superior to former diffs 2. Sport Plus throttle mode - no way. However, sport and efficient modes are excellent choices that are far less disruptive to rear end traction. Efficient mode requires almost no throttle skill, and Sport mode requires modest skill to avoid significant MDM intervention at WOT. 3. It's wider and longer but lighter and appears, with it's chassis, and in sport plus mode, to control it's weight better and shift weight less than the e90 (I'm going off others comments on this) I'm no expert here I'm just going off my own experience with this throttle and engine output and my understanding of what I've read. I realize the e9x platform has some things going for it on tight and technical courses - smoother power delivery more reliant upon RPM building than raw torque output, smaller wheelbase, etc... Chuck: I find it interesting that ~5 years after the e9x platform came out it came onto the autocross scene in a big way. Why do you think that is? |
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03-25-2015, 10:28 AM | #87 |
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Cost is the main factor and people were afraid to buy a car for A-stock that they know shouldn't be in that class. Although board member Richbot kicked tail in A-stock with his E90 M3 in the midwest back in 2012. The big move happened in 2013 when it was rightly moved into F-stock, now F-street. Now the car could compete with cars of the same size, power and weight. Which, btw, is where the F8x should likely be classed, but the SCCA SEB never underclasses a new and expensive car hence it's stuck in B-street.
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03-25-2015, 11:28 AM | #88 | |
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