Who has driven an F8x M3/M4 in the snow? Describe your experiences

[myzmak]

Drove mine this morning in 10 cm of fresh snow on unplowed streets (was not the first one out, though, so at least some tracks for me to follow).

so....yeah, as you'd expect, this is not exactly on par with a tank in terms of traction in those circumstances.

But....ended up being fine. By the time I go home, the streets will be plowed (or at least melted enough)

[6spdTanzM4]

So the idea was to have some fun in the snow through the Colorado winters with the M4 as a daily driver. I've got 5-6 years of winter driving here in various cars but the last two were a S2000 with Dunlop Winter Sport snows (a blast) on them and also a E92 AWD with Continental All Seasons. Each did awesome in the snow when up the mountains for snowboarding and around town along with all the rest.

This afternoon I go test the M4 out as we've got maybe 2-3 inches on the road with some of it packed in now. A couple weeks ago I put on Blizzak LM-32's all around ($1300~) so they aren't brand new anymore (100 miles on them maybe).

On flat areas it was perfectly fine..confidence still way up. Start, stopping was great, not a ton of sliding around. I pull into some alleys with some slight hills (maybe 8-12 degree incline but no more) to see how it does going uphill from a stop on ice/packed snow. The thing would NOT move forward. Nothing but tire spin then traction control kicking in and cutting power. I tried all the settings (efficiency vs. sport throttle, MDM vs. full traction control etc) and pretty much lost all confidence. I pressed the gas as slowly/lightly as possible and still wheelspin with no grip.

I was going to try to take this up in the mountains but now I'm generally worried, and at this point will rent a Zipcar 4WD Ford Escape or something similar to go do that. I thought being a BMW with Blizzaks on it there would be nothing to worry about, but I'd be wrong.

I don't know if this post has now turned into a warning for others, but I'd like to hear about anyone else's experience in the snow, particularly starting on inclines. Because at this point this seems fine for around town but anything other that that is a no go.

[ASAP]

Pure personal opinion but I don't feel these cars should be driven in the snow/ below freezing temps... I would recommend buying a winter junker and reselling after winter. It's not worth the abuse for the car and a high tq rwd car will always be subpar for the winters. I've dealt with this before in another non M rwd high tq car and while it did ok, once it got heavy packed it was useless and in fact scary.

[6spdTanzM4]

At the outset here I would tend to agree with you. I'm a bit baffled as the S2000 really did amazing with snows and was RWD, but maybe it had so little low end torque that it makes a big difference in getting going.

[Vigilant]

Rear wheel drive + snow/below freezing temps (even with winter tires) =

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by shiftmr2t

At the outset here I would tend to agree with you. I'm a bit baffled as the S2000 really did amazing with snows and was RWD, but maybe it had so little low end torque that it makes a big difference in getting going.

I think an s2000 has significantly narrower tires, slightly better weighs distribution towards the rear and low tq... all of which will help a lot.

[Ian1973]

what size did you go with? The wider the tire obviously it's more like a ski than anything. I went with 245's myself, didn't want to go more narrow (on 8" wheels) as it's dry roads here more than snow covered.

I had a 400hp 335i with 235 square setup and even with an LSD it was very good in the snow with Dunlop Wintersport 3D's(if I remember correctly).

[doberzus]

My F80 does pretty damn good in 30-50 degree weather, traction wise(in the DRY)

However, I do not feel comfortable exposing my high powered, RWD beast to the elements(mostly salt) and OTHER dangerous drivers that cannot drive in snow. In wet, cold, slushy, snowy conditions I feel just fine leaving the F80 sparkling clean in my garage. I prefer to drive my N55, M sport X1 that has AWD(19"s with all seasons)

It's amazing in the snow and I feel zero guilt about getting salt, snow, or dirt on it.

[auf Deutsch]

Well that's a disheartening story. Waiting for rebuttal posts saying otherwise. I'll need to DD this car 12 mo/yr.

[egalley]

I drove mine through the winter last year. I was very impressed how it handled in the snow. I went with Nokian Hakka 8's 255 all around. I would recommend this tire

[myzmak]

Second on the 'what width' question?

Also, in fresh snow so,e weight over the drive wheels helps. Bag of sand or two in the trunk

Drove mine today in about 4" of fresh snow and, while certainly not a tank, it did fine. Hills are a challenge (gravity) but...that is where the sand and narrower tires can help.

[minn19]

LM 32s are a "performance winter" tire. Going with a more dedicated winter such as an Xice or WS80 will give you much better initial bite traction. The down side is they get squishy faster in warmer temps much more quickly than a performance winter option. All trade offs. Weight in the trunk will definitely help.

[AYTifosi]

The LM tires are not studless snow tires that you would need. I think they are really about cold weather traction where summers freeze.

[vstM3]

I have them and had lots of fun last winter (Chicago winter) and did a pretty good job in snow.

[9SECDD]

I've driven my E36 M3, E46 M3 and now my F82 M4 through 14 NJ winters with Blizzaks. Never had a problem. Doing Pirelli's this year since Blizzak was not available in the size I wanted.

Perhaps I'd feel differently in Colorado or some other place with much more frequent deep snow, but most of the time where I drive, the snow is plowed pretty quickly. I just want to survive without crashing and have no problem driving slowly when snowing. 99% of the time I'm not driving through the snow, and still want to enjoy my M car. So no garaging and driving a beater for me!

[KZEVO]

OP are you on a winter performance tire? That may explain it as well. Also I can't recall if it was motortrend or C&D Lon term m3 that did well with a particular brand of snow tires.

[Racer20]

Originally Posted by AYTifosi

The LM tires are not studless snow tires that you would need. I think they are really about cold weather traction where summers freeze.

This. "Performance" snows are a joke in real snow. They are marginally better than all-seasons, but they still won't get a RWD car up a hill in anything more than a light dusting. With REAL Blizzaks (WS80's) or Michelin X-Ice's, the M3 will be fine.

On the flipside, the SuperSports are amazing in cold temps for a summer tire. I've had no issue down to 25degrees in the dry in any of my cars, and one time last year I got caught in a freak early snowfall and made my 40 mile commute home on them in 1/2inch of snow covering the road. I wouldn't recommend doing that, but every other summer tire I've ever had would have had me in the ditch.

Edit: Adding a disclaimer because ASAP is basically right (below). . . ANY Summer tires in cold temps or snow is dangerous and stupid. But the PSS can handle low temps A LITTLE BIT better than most traditional summer tires in a pinch. I don't want to mislead anyone into thinking that they can make it through the winter on their PSS's.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Racer20

This. "Performance" snows are a joke in real snow. They are marginally better than all-seasons, but they still won't get a RWD car up a hill in anything more than a light dusting. With REAL Blizzaks (WS80's) or Michelin X-Ice's, the M3 will be fine.

On the flipside, the SuperSports are amazing in cold temps for a summer tire. I've had no issue down to 25degrees in any of my cars, and one time last year I got caught in a freak early snowfall and made my 40 mile commute home on them in 1/2inch of snow covering the road. I wouldn't recommend doing that, but every other summer tire I've ever had would have had me in the ditch.

No.... just no... I have a winters experience with this and that is the worst idea in the world... these tires get hard as a rock in sub 40F weather... a slight touch of the gas and they will spin. Add snow and its a guaranteed ditch, consider yourself lucky.

[elias]

Originally Posted by ASAP

No.... just no... I have a winters experience with this and that is the worst idea in the world... these tires get hard as a rock in sub 40F weather... a slight touch of the gas and they will spin. Add snow and its a guaranteed ditch, consider yourself lucky.

+1 I drive very cautious in sub freezing temps don't trust these tires.

[Racer20]

Originally Posted by ASAP

No.... just no... I have a winters experience with this and that is the worst idea in the world... these tires get hard as a rock in sub 40F weather... a slight touch of the gas and they will spin. Add snow and its a guaranteed ditch, consider yourself lucky.

Lol, you misunderstood me. I am NOT telling people that it's ok. Just stating an interesting observation that the BMW PSS actually handle cold temps better than most summer tires. Meaning that most summer tires would literally spin you into the ditch at 5mph on flat ground in those conditions. The PSS let me make it home at 30-40mph on the freeway when an expected rain storm actually turned out to be snow. I was lucky that one time, and yes, if your PLAN is to drive on summer tires in the winter, you're making a big mistake.

That said, hard as a rock under 40degrees? Not in my experience. I've had them on the track at 45 degrees, and driven on the street several mornings where the temps were below 30. I have had multiple sets of PSS's since they were introduced and currently have them on all three of my RWD cars. I haven't had any abnormal traction issues. I'm guessing you have a DCT? I've noticed that most people with traction issues do. Are you brake torque/redline launching frozen tires or driving like a normal person?

[6spdTanzM4]

A lot of interest in this topic just in a few hours. To answer the tire size question -

The tire sizes are the stock 19 sizes - 255/35R19 and 275/35R19 because I wanted to keep the stock wheels, and there really weren't many options out there (that I could find) in these sizes.

So as to not get into a debate on driving vs. not driving in the winter, my personal desire is to drive the M4 as much as possible in all conditions, and to have the best overall tire/traction for the different conditions.

Before the winter tires - the stock Super Sports got rock hard under 50 degrees or so (as mentioned above), and the traction control kicked in everywhere, even on dry roads around here. If it snows in the least and is near 30 degrees, it is very dangerous to take the car out on performance summer tires.

For Denver, Colorado about 80-90% of the time in town the roads are clear with the sun out through the winter, with temps in the 25-60 degree range. Then there are a few days in between where it snows a bit and the snow actually sticks on the road. For this purpose, the LM-32's are perfect because they still do decently in snow around town and fine in the dry. Plus the car now doesn't have to sit around for days waiting for snow/ice to melt.

However, after testing today a bit (starting on an incline) and reading the comments above, it seems that in piles of snow with steeper areas like up in the mountains, this car should not be used, unless you have that absolute ideal setup which includes:

Fully dedicated or studded snow tires.
Tires that are as narrow as possible that still fits the car OK.
Bags of sand or lots of weight in the trunk.

It doesn't make sense to me to buy a whole other set of "stronger" winter tires due to the conditions in town mentioned above, but I will be getting some bags of sand for weight in the back. But even then, I don't think it's worth risk taking this up snowboarding/skiing or into the mountains. For those few times a year, I'm happy to do Zipcar (rental) SUV or Jeep 4WD (cheaper than getting winter beater + new car still) and keep the M4 out of trouble.

Still would like to hear opinions though! Thanks all.

[Mr Pete]

So got home last night, shoveled snow around my car and cleared a path into my driveway to get the car back into garage haha

Today, drove to work, mixture of flat and inclined roads. Didn't feel any slipping, felt pretty stable. These Nokian snow tires truly are amazing.

So when there's a foot of snow, keep the M3 at home haha