$70KF80 M3 or CPO 991?

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by Devilzmantis

One thing that i've been told and I know for sure is the exhaust note of the M3/M4 is far better than the Porsche.

First, "you've been told and you know for sure" doesn't make sense. Which is it?

Second, personally, it's hard to beat the exhaust note of a Flat 6. Takes some doing and the M3 does not beat it, by a long shot.

[KevinM]

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1122743

Enjoy! He has a CS but much of the information in the thread still applies.

[EfEightyM3]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

First, "you've been told and you know for sure" doesn't make sense. Which is it?

Second, personally, it's hard to beat the exhaust note of a Flat 6. Takes some doing and the M3 does not beat it, by a long shot.

You can say that again...NOT.EVEN.CLOSE. There may not be a better sounding car than a Porsche sports car, especially with PSE.

[Brosef]

I'd go for the M, but either should make you happy

[hl0m4n]

hey op i am on the same boat as you; hopefully my thread can provide you feedback as well:

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1142649

[Devilzmantis]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

First, "you've been told and you know for sure" doesn't make sense. Which is it?

Second, personally, it's hard to beat the exhaust note of a Flat 6. Takes some doing and the M3 does not beat it, by a long shot.

What I meant was I know from hearing both cars and also by others sharing my same feeling... the M3 exhaust note is better. The 911 sounds too tame but that's my opinion.

[kasher_khan]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

You live in NoVA? Seriously, I wouldn't even get an MCar. Buy yourself a really nice 528 and do yourself a favor. I was frustrated with even a 535 when I lived there.

I would also tell you I'm not sure where you commute, but I think that you can ride the Beltway HOT lanes for free in an i3 (I moved literally the month before they opened them). Same with 395. And if that were the case, I'd definitely have an i3....probably wouldn't even need a REX.

That thing would be a hoot in NoVA.

L No kidding... NOVA is where car enthusiasts come to wither and die deep inside! If you are brave enough though, there are some really nice roads here and in west Virginia. You just have to have a friend run pilot in front of you...

[auggiem3]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

euro mdm still intervenes and reduces power.

go DSC OFF to fully understand the power difference between M3/M4 and base 991 but make sure you are ready to catch the rear end....

I get that - the post I quoted claimed the car "pulls harder" with euro mdm coded (vs normal mdm). Just trying to understand why a traction system would impact "pull" or torque.

[hockey21]

911 for sure. if you don't have kids and don't need trunk space on a daily basis. take care of it and keep it for the 100,000 miles!

[baege]

never driven an f80 so my thoughts may not be as informative, but going from a Z4Coupe to a 981CS, I can tell you that for me a Porsche brings a whole different level of driver engagement and joy.
If you can live with the less practical aspects of the 991 over an f80, I say go for the 991.
cost wise it's pretty much even as the higher maintenance costs of the 991 will be offset by the lower depreciation (normally aspirated p cars are going to hold their value pretty well in the next few years given the move to turbos by Porsche)

Best with the decision

(as an aside how do people get out of cars they've ordered without penalty or are you going to take the hit on the deposit?)

[kasher_khan]

Originally Posted by baege

Best with the decision

(as an aside how do people get out of cars they've ordered without penalty or are you going to take the hit on the deposit?)

No deposit... Dealership owner is my neighbor!


Also update on the 911: The car I was considering finally sold while I was making up my mind. So if another one becomes available while I am still waiting on the M3, I might do it. Otherwise I end up with a custom ordered brand new M3 First world problems....

[kasher_khan]

Originally Posted by hl0m4n

hey op i am on the same boat as you; hopefully my thread can provide you feedback as well:

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1142649

Thanks that helps...

[TonySCV]

I've never owned a P car, but the consistent message I get from friends who have owned them as well as BMW's is:

- If you're considering a non-turbo, drive it extensively to be sure the car has enough power for you (torque specifically). Tight canyons and passes need torque to have fun in, not horsepower.

- They're great weekend/2nd cars, not daily drivers. This point can't be emphasized enough. Cabin noise, driving in traffic, etc. They're fun cars meant to have fun with and not sit in traffic or run errands in.

- The infotainment and telephony bits are vastly inferior to BMW's and that WILL grate on you if you're a tech guy. Again, if it's a weekend car, not a big deal. Daily driver? Think twice. The bluetooth integration in particular can be finicky.

- A warranty is a must, and lease if you can. Porsche leases are generally terrible, but it's nice not having to worry about what happens to the car. If you purchase, given the steep depreciation curve generally, the relative cost of the car, and the fact that no one wants to buy a used Porsche that's been in an accident... again, all things to consider. You don't want to be a scared/worried owner, so make sure financially you're ok with the risks associated with buying one (vs. leasing/renting).

Here's another thread with some interesting perspective (it's focused on the Cayman vs. M235, but full of good feedback that will be generally helpful when it comes to experiences): http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1144096

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by auggiem3

I get that - the post I quoted claimed the car "pulls harder" with euro mdm coded (vs normal mdm). Just trying to understand why a traction system would impact "pull" or torque.

TC cuts torque (i.e. less "pull") and/or brakes the wheels more to keep driver from spinning

more restrictive = more power is cut = less torque = less pull

EDIT: I think there is some potentially bad advice here on Porsche depreciation and how suitable they are for daily drivers

I know several people who daily drive 911 turbo or C4S or Cayman S. they are great daily drivers, especially with PDK. Yes, infotainment not as good as BMW. It really depends on the model. 987 Cayman R has not depreciated, 911 turbo seems to hit a depreciation floor and stay there for many years. (i.e. 996 TT still low to mid 40s, for the last 5-6 years).

[AM4ZING]

So are you looking for a 4 door sedan or a small 2 door coupe...

[Cajun1]

Originally Posted by auggiem3

Hi Cajun - this isn't the first reference I've seen about torque/pull/power with Euro MDM. Don't want to jack the thread but what am I missing? The MDM is a stability feature that engages later in euro spec vs the US nanny.

Are you talking about DSC intervention off the line? If not, how does euro MDM make the car pull harder?

Yes, off of the line and in 2nd gear and 3rd gear to a lesser extent. As soon as the system detects wheel-spin power is cut and the fun stops. You don't get a chance to modulate the throttle. Euro MDM really changes the way this car drives for the better.

[Roadkiller]

Originally Posted by X2Board

I think you should drive both, examine your priorities, then decide which works best for your situation.

Tough decision -- what he said. ^^

[Devilzmantis]

Originally Posted by TonySCV

I've never owned a P car, but the consistent message I get from friends who have owned them as well as BMW's is:

- If you're considering a non-turbo, drive it extensively to be sure the car has enough power for you (torque specifically). Tight canyons and passes need torque to have fun in, not horsepower.

- They're great weekend/2nd cars, not daily drivers. This point can't be emphasized enough. Cabin noise, driving in traffic, etc. They're fun cars meant to have fun with and not sit in traffic or run errands in.

- The infotainment and telephony bits are vastly inferior to BMW's and that WILL grate on you if you're a tech guy. Again, if it's a weekend car, not a big deal. Daily driver? Think twice. The bluetooth integration in particular can be finicky.

- A warranty is a must, and lease if you can. Porsche leases are generally terrible, but it's nice not having to worry about what happens to the car. If you purchase, given the steep depreciation curve generally, the relative cost of the car, and the fact that no one wants to buy a used Porsche that's been in an accident... again, all things to consider. You don't want to be a scared/worried owner, so make sure financially you're ok with the risks associated with buying one (vs. leasing/renting).

Here's another thread with some interesting perspective (it's focused on the Cayman vs. M235, but full of good feedback that will be generally helpful when it comes to experiences): http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1144096

yah you broke it down very well... Also if you do get the Porsche, you gotta get the PSE (Porsche Sport Exhaust) System... without it the standard sounds really plain like I already mentioned.

[tareemaa]

a wise man once said; "horsepower sells cars, torque wins races."

get the M, get the practicality, get the sleeper status, get the looks, get the 4 doors, get it new, and get a shit load of low end power which is a blast to use every single day.

or go for a porsche and you will get the bling factor, impracticality, a used car, the base motor, and yes an excellent handling purpose built machine. I get it, the porsches handle amazing and blah blah blah. Like so many people have said, are you going to use all that to its potential? If not, it doesn't really make much sense.

[MDREDev]

Originally Posted by heart_doctor

I agree. If the 911 is your only mode of transport then it will be difficult with kids. I personally am thinking of getting into a 911 for my next car but the 911 would be my fun car.

I'm in this camp as well. If you didn't have the kid(s), I'd say 991. They have become much more GT like vs the 993,996,997 iterations and are more suitable for a DD. I just think the carseat would be a royal PIA and the M3 would be more purposeful.

[EfEightyM3]

Originally Posted by tareemaa

a wise man once said; "horsepower sells cars, torque wins races."

get the M, get the practicality, get the sleeper status, get the looks, get the 4 doors, get it new, and get a shit load of low end power which is a blast to use every single day.

or go for a porsche and you will get the bling factor, impracticality, a used car, the base motor, and yes an excellent handling purpose built machine. I get it, the porsches handle amazing and blah blah blah. Like so many people have said, are you going to use all that to its potential? If not, it doesn't really make much sense.

Are you really going to use either to their full potential? The 911 has much higher limits to where you can explore them more safely (it's also a much more stable car at the limit and at speed) and it's just a much better dual character in terms of GT/track car...which the lap times substantiate.

[tareemaa]

Originally Posted by EfEightyM3

Are you really going to use either to their full potential? The 911 has much higher limits to where you can explore them more safely (it's also a much more stable car at the limit and at speed) and it's just a much better dual character in terms of GT/track car...which the lap times substantiate.

F80 vs 991 base

F80 is going to give you a much more usable and higher power band in the lows and mids. Hell, I'd even go as far as saying it pulls pretty hard to redline. I took it down from 6th to 4th today and it went from 80 to 120 pretty damn fast. I am coming from an E90 M3 and while the engine was amazing, i had to rev the shit out of it to make it feel fast.

If the OP is a track rat, and he is actually going to take the car out to the track multiple times a year to feel the "higher limits" you refer to, then yes, he will feel it is the obvious choice. But for most of us on here, that use the car as a daily with very occasional track runs, the M3 shines.

The 991 is an awesome car, don't get me wrong, but the price point is getting kind of ridiculous. Most people buy it because they want a daily driver "exotic" and want the cache that comes with driving a Porsche. I'll drive past 10 today on my way home from the office as I drive through downtown Chicago. Most of which will be a base model with a likely automatic trans.

The OP has an M on order and I'd stick with it, not get into a used base model 991. Its very easy to fall into the hype when you read about cars on websites and forums. At the end of the day, you buy and drive what offers you the best experience in what you prioritize.