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      01-14-2020, 04:43 PM   #1
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Tuned S55 motors with serious track time

Gang, I'm looking to flash with ECUTEK soon.

For those of you with 500-550 WHP tunes how has the drive train help up?

Turbos? Engine, Clutch etc?

THX,
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      01-14-2020, 05:10 PM   #2
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From the comments in the spun crank hub threads it seems like you get a stage 2 tune and you spin the hub in the next few track outings

If you want to tune and do heavy track use I suggest you use a low torque option, like what ESS offers or what BM3 allows you to program (20% torque limit by gear)

I track my CS heavily but the engine/exhaust are completely OEM
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      01-14-2020, 05:24 PM   #3
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If you are tracking the car with more than stock power, I highly recommend getting a pinned crank hub
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      01-14-2020, 06:00 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by chetrickerman View Post
If you are tracking the car with more than stock power, I highly recommend getting a pinned crank hub
THX, I'm putting the CBC on it...

Good to see you again Chet. All those years on the EVO Forums...

I'm looking to see if anyone has extensively tracked their S55 with 20-22lbs of boost from a reliability standpoint and also any cooling issues..

Roughly a stage 1 tune...
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      01-14-2020, 07:00 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAT TIME RULES View Post
THX, I'm putting the CBC on it...

Good to see you again Chet. All those years on the EVO Forums...

I'm looking to see if anyone has extensively tracked their S55 with 20-22lbs of boost from a reliability standpoint and also any cooling issues..

Roughly a stage 1 tune...
Hey, good to see you too. I am on here a good bit now. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.

The CBC does help, but its still possible to spin the hub.
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      01-14-2020, 07:46 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by chetrickerman View Post
Hey, good to see you too. I am on here a good bit now. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.

The CBC does help, but its still possible to spin the hub.
Yes I know that but its good insurance vs OEM...
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      01-15-2020, 09:20 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAT TIME RULES View Post
THX, I'm putting the CBC on it...

Good to see you again Chet. All those years on the EVO Forums...

I'm looking to see if anyone has extensively tracked their S55 with 20-22lbs of boost from a reliability standpoint and also any cooling issues..

Roughly a stage 1 tune...
I have a 2015 M4 6MT full bolt on with custom tune and 25 lbs of boost. I'm at about 18 track days with this tune and haven't run into any serious problems. I keep up with the maintenance well, change the oil every 4 track days and spark plugs/trans+diff fluid once a year. Haven't done the crank hub fix yet.

The car is has treated me very well, I daily drive it with almost 60K miles. I've done 30 min sessions in 90+ degree weather and have never once had a cooling issue.
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      01-15-2020, 12:47 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAT TIME RULES View Post
THX, I'm putting the CBC on it...

Good to see you again Chet. All those years on the EVO Forums...

I'm looking to see if anyone has extensively tracked their S55 with 20-22lbs of boost from a reliability standpoint and also any cooling issues..

Roughly a stage 1 tune...
The M4 GTS targets 21.x PSI, a few owners track their cars regularly. I'll probably log 15-18 lapping days on mine in 2020. I have zero concerns about the S55 holding up thermally, structurally, or with oiling.

A little concern around spinning the crank hub. On the 150mph -> 80mph braking zone at my home track I try not to bounce off redline with downshifts. I've found I can sneak in a downshift mid-corner after trail-braking with the DCT, with sport+ the rear would wiggle a little but not to the point of risking a spin.

AFAIK manuals weren't as susceptible to downshift induced crank hub spins, probably due to drivers being a bit more cautious about bouncing off redline with the downshift.
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      01-15-2020, 02:23 PM   #9
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Seems a bit like a gamble. might be ok if cautious what to be careful but with no 100% assurance.
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      01-15-2020, 02:52 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAT TIME RULES View Post
Gang, I'm looking to flash with ECUTEK soon.

For those of you with 500-550 WHP tunes how has the drive train help up?

Turbos? Engine, Clutch etc?

THX,
HAZMAT
over 2 years with a stage 2 tune no issues
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      01-15-2020, 05:36 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HA55L3R View Post
I have a 2015 M4 6MT full bolt on with custom tune and 25 lbs of boost. I'm at about 18 track days with this tune and haven't run into any serious problems. I keep up with the maintenance well, change the oil every 4 track days and spark plugs/trans+diff fluid once a year. Haven't done the crank hub fix yet.

The car is has treated me very well, I daily drive it with almost 60K miles. I've done 30 min sessions in 90+ degree weather and have never once had a cooling issue.
This is exactly what I'm looking to hear!

many thx
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      01-15-2020, 10:05 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gomeler View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAT TIME RULES View Post
THX, I'm putting the CBC on it...

Good to see you again Chet. All those years on the EVO Forums...

I'm looking to see if anyone has extensively tracked their S55 with 20-22lbs of boost from a reliability standpoint and also any cooling issues..

Roughly a stage 1 tune...
The M4 GTS targets 21.x PSI, a few owners track their cars regularly. I'll probably log 15-18 lapping days on mine in 2020. I have zero concerns about the S55 holding up thermally, structurally, or with oiling.

A little concern around spinning the crank hub. On the 150mph -> 80mph braking zone at my home track I try not to bounce off redline with downshifts. I've found I can sneak in a downshift mid-corner after trail-braking with the DCT, with sport+ the rear would wiggle a little but not to the point of risking a spin.

AFAIK manuals weren't as susceptible to downshift induced crank hub spins, probably due to drivers being a bit more cautious about bouncing off redline with the downshift.
When you said the tear would wiggle a little - were you in DSC on, MDM or DSC fully off?

I've found when driving on track (as many others on this forum have reported) that when in MDM, the rear feels floaty/loose under heavy braking, but the rear feels totally planted with very heavy braking with DSC fully off.
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      01-16-2020, 11:56 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerslide View Post
When you said the tear would wiggle a little - were you in DSC on, MDM or DSC fully off?

I've found when driving on track (as many others on this forum have reported) that when in MDM, the rear feels floaty/loose under heavy braking, but the rear feels totally planted with very heavy braking with DSC fully off.
DSC off, and it only wiggled on the downshift while cornering forces were ramping up. Pretty understandable IMO, doing a downshift in my Miata right before the apex also unsettles the car, just asking a lot of the tires. Straight line braking was incredibly stable and trail braking was predictable.

MDM was complete trash. The car would flash the traction control LED on the 3->4 and 4->5 upshift in sport+ on a slight downhill straight. Forget trying to roll in to the throttle mid-corner, it aggressively cut throttle every time.
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      01-16-2020, 04:29 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gomeler View Post
Pretty understandable IMO, doing a downshift in my Miata right before the apex also unsettles the car, just asking a lot of the tires.
Did you check your data to see if your brake pedal pressure changed (aka more aggressive trailing brake than intended)

On topic, my recollection is the heaviest track users on the forum like Canaut and Maynard have stock engines.

I think masterP and MasterC17 and other posters had heavy mods on suspension but also stock drivetrain.

Long story short OP, my recollection is the bulk of heavy user data we have on the forums is on stock drivetrains.
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      01-16-2020, 05:05 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
Did you check your data to see if your brake pedal pressure changed (aka more aggressive trailing brake than intended)

On topic, my recollection is the heaviest track users on the forum like Canaut and Maynard have stock engines.

I think masterP and MasterC17 and other posters had heavy mods on suspension but also stock drivetrain.

Long story short OP, my recollection is the bulk of heavy user data we have on the forums is on stock drivetrains.
If you're asking about the Miata, we didn't have much in the way of telemetry in our car. Wiring up everything was planned that winter, and then I drove it in to a wall at COTA during a race. I have yet to log anything on the M4, I'll start logging and recording when I drag it out of storage in a month or two.
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      01-16-2020, 06:11 PM   #16
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I've tracked my DCT M4 with an E85 tune making 570whp/tq without any issues. Over 15 track days and daily driven. The only effects were increased consumption of plugs/injectors/coil packs. No crank hub fix or cooling mods. I never worried about aggressive downshifts or spinning the hub. I kept up on maintenance and took care of the car in hopes it would take care of me. Thankfully it did. To my knowledge, the GT4 race cars are running without crank hub fixes without problems, so why would I need one?

My two cents...spend the money on a custom tune specifically made for the track. Let your tuner know you plan to torture the car and dial things back. Even with the huge increase in power over stock, I actually had less traction issues with my custom tune on the street and track than I did stock. The powerband was so smooth and easy to drive at the limit.

The car will overheat on long straights or high power circuits. Most notably at COTA in 90+ degree weather, Laguna in 90+ degree weather down the start/finish straight and Auto Club in 80+ degree weather down the long roval straight.

I've severely tortured the car and done multiple 30-minute sessions with the car overheating, and it limiting power/revs nearly the entire time. I forgot exactly what pieces they were, but the only consequences were melted wires and o-rings. We replaced them, and the car ran continued to run perfectly after. It's expensive to run these cars at their limit but well worth it.
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      01-16-2020, 06:29 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continental02 View Post
I've tracked my DCT M4 with an E85 tune making 570whp/tq without any issues. Over 15 track days and daily driven. The only effects were increased consumption of plugs/injectors/coil packs. No crank hub fix or cooling mods. I never worried about aggressive downshifts or spinning the hub. I kept up on maintenance and took care of the car in hopes it would take care of me. Thankfully it did. To my knowledge, the GT4 race cars are running without crank hub fixes without problems, so why would I need one?

My two cents...spend the money on a custom tune specifically made for the track. Let your tuner know you plan to torture the car and dial things back. Even with the huge increase in power over stock, I actually had less traction issues with my custom tune on the street and track than I did stock. The powerband was so smooth and easy to drive at the limit.

The car will overheat on long straights or high power circuits. Most notably at COTA in 90+ degree weather, Laguna in 90+ degree weather down the start/finish straight and Auto Club in 80+ degree weather down the long roval straight.

I've severely tortured the car and done multiple 30-minute sessions with the car overheating, and it limiting power/revs nearly the entire time. I forgot exactly what pieces they were, but the only consequences were melted wires and o-rings. We replaced them, and the car ran continued to run perfectly after. It's expensive to run these cars at their limit but well worth it.
You had a pretty good run on your M4, with only injectors and coilpacks being consumables (and a fuel filler neck).
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      01-16-2020, 07:08 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continental02 View Post
To my knowledge, the GT4 race cars are running without crank hub fixes without problems, so why would I need one?
Do you know exact max power of the GT4 race car? Only web search I could do was an article saying it's close to 500hp at max but that power level is mostly already illegal at most race series. So they are raced at far below 500hp.

"The car is quoted at "above 431 hp" using the red power stick, which is both the lowest level available and the one used for IMSA Continental events. The silver stick, which is next up, is currently used in Pirelli World Challenge. I’ll be driving the car with the gold stick, which is the Goldilocks choice. Move all the way up to the top-flight black stick, and you’re probably illegal in any series anywhere—but you’re also close to 500 horses."

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...-car-on-track/
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      01-16-2020, 07:43 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
You had a pretty good run on your M4, with only injectors and coilpacks being consumables (and a fuel filler neck).
Is 37.5 hours (15 days x 0.5hr sessions x 5 sessions per day) considered “serious track time” for a car?
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      01-17-2020, 12:37 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
Is 37.5 hours (15 days x 0.5hr sessions x 5 sessions per day) considered “serious track time” for a car?
In my case, the car would do back to back sessions for some of the days as I let friends use my car at the same event. What's the point of going to iconic tracks like Laguna if you can't share it with friends who want to experience the corkscrew too?

So you're looking at 40-60 minutes of track time, with only a quick stop to change drivers and refuel. Then a 20-30 minute break until the car would go out again for the next two sessions.

That's 5 hours of track time in one day, and I was the opposite of easy on my car. For me, I think it speaks volumes to how capable the car is. 5 hours of steady abuse is no joke.
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      01-17-2020, 12:46 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyFragileHalogen View Post
Do you know exact max power of the GT4 race car? Only web search I could do was an article saying it's close to 500hp at max but that power level is mostly already illegal at most race series. So they are raced at far below 500hp.

"The car is quoted at "above 431 hp" using the red power stick, which is both the lowest level available and the one used for IMSA Continental events. The silver stick, which is next up, is currently used in Pirelli World Challenge. I’ll be driving the car with the gold stick, which is the Goldilocks choice. Move all the way up to the top-flight black stick, and you’re probably illegal in any series anywhere—but you’re also close to 500 horses."

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...-car-on-track/
I'm not sure what the exact power is for the GT4. My comfort came from knowing that my same drivetrain is out there racing each weekend and trusted to finish without issue. Even if the car is down on power, it's still overengineered at whatever level they're running it at and is proven capable of finishing 24-hour endurance races.
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      01-17-2020, 01:13 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyFragileHalogen View Post
Do you know exact max power of the GT4 race car? Only web search I could do was an article saying it's close to 500hp at max but that power level is mostly already illegal at most race series. So they are raced at far below 500hp.

"The car is quoted at "above 431 hp" using the red power stick, which is both the lowest level available and the one used for IMSA Continental events. The silver stick, which is next up, is currently used in Pirelli World Challenge. I’ll be driving the car with the gold stick, which is the Goldilocks choice. Move all the way up to the top-flight black stick, and you’re probably illegal in any series anywhere—but you’re also close to 500 horses."

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...-car-on-track/
It doesn't have a lot of power. You may get 500 with the top one.

So people shouldn't be surprised those engines don't have many issues, the same as the GTS doesn't have many issues either.

I'm pretty sure the stupid, useless torque hump at 3k rpm from highly tuned S55s is responsible for most of the hub issues

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