Going from an F80 M3 to a 997/991 911

[Darth One]

997 GT3's aren't exactly the best daily driver either. He said he wants a daily driver.

Signed,
Someone who DD'd a 997 GT3 for 30k miles

[mjposner]

"I believe, for daily driving, 997 S is not fun when coming from F80 unless you're running canyons frequently."

I have no problem commuting in my 997.1s, it is a lot of fun for me. My commute is less than 10 miles and while crowded, no bumper to bumper or crawling. Any commute where you sit in traffic will be worse in an older car with a manual. So depends on the individual.

[SonicJlee]

I've had a couple of F80s ('15 base and '16 ZCP) alongside a 991.1 C2S and now have a 997.1 C2S alongside a 970 Panamera GTS, which is one of my favorite car combos. Between the 991.1 and 997.1, the 991 is a superior daily driver (newer tech, more comfortable, slightly roomier, to include bigger frunk) - it also sounds better. I didn't like the exterior proportions of the 991 and it always seemed kind of sterile to me compared to the M3 so I never fell in love with it. I've always preferred the styling of the 997 and still do. The 997 has more character, and the smaller size makes it even more fun, but it certainly feels a couple generations older than an F80. I have an aftermarket headunit with bluetooth - I think is mandatory if you get a 997. It makes a huge diffence in making the car more modern. I was recently given an opportunity to jump back into a 991 but didn't really care to. However, if I had to limit myself to 1 car, I would strongly consider the 991 over the 997 for the better daily driver qualities. With that being said, there are weeks that I put over 800 miles on my 997 - it is up for the task.

[Apnea]

Natural progression is from a M3/M4 to a 997/991; however I feel like they're pretty apples to oranges.

You'll definitely miss some of the creature comforts on the M3. It doesn't bother me too much, but a couple things my M had that my 991.1 doesn't are: HUD, memory seats, keyless entry, auto folding side mirrors, backup camera, ultrasonic sensors, etc...

F80 also wins in terms of practicality. They're amazing GT cars that epitomizes the Jack of all Trades title.

However if you're looking for a no nonsense pure driving sports car, any of the 911s is the way to go. NA flat six revs up to 8k+ and sounds amazing. Less power isn't missed given that the car is more nimble. What pushed me over was the fact that you're just so connected to both the car and the road. Everything responds exactly the way you intend it - no turbo lag, linear NA powerband, and PDK-S doesn't chug like the DCT.

[996ttelise]

Originally Posted by 25meterzero

I have a 2018 comp M3 but I still think I want a 911. I like the recent late models 997 possibly 991. Something about the looks of the newer ones are to modern from what the older 911 I remember as a kid.

Has anyone had a 997 and now an m3 have any insight. I know the 911 will have a flat six naturally aspirated will the loss off power be missed?

Have an F80 ZCP and a 2012 997 GTS. I never drive the M3 any more, ever. The 997 is by far a more enjoyable car to drive.

The 997 has better seating position, more comfortable interior, much better ride and damping, better steering feel, better brake feel, better sound and much better looks.

My 997 has a Kenwood Excelon with back-up camera and latest technology which is nice, but not super important to me. I am more about the car, the way it drives, feels and looks.

[nicknaz]

One thing I feel compelled to point out is that the F80 gets out of your way on purpose because it’s meant to be a dual purpose car.

You can slug through traffic and take conference calls and haul your family and luggage and dog when the throttle is in “efficient” mode as if it was a 320

I have used both f80 and old 911 as daily, and I guarantee the daily experience is fine but compromised in old 911 due to road noise and old tech.

When you drive the f80 car and start to slide it around, it’s a lot of fun and shows a different side.

There’s so many blanket statements on this thread that suggest f80 somehow is lacking in the Performance and fun department, and that’s not true.

If you prefer an “always on” experience and a low seating position, versus a “dual purpose” experience, then it’s a nice case for the old 911. But let’s not get carried away with blanket statements

[Funf6cyl]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

One thing I feel compelled to point out is that the F80 gets out of your way on purpose because it’s meant to be a dual purpose car.

You can slug through traffic and take conference calls and haul your family and luggage and dog when the throttle is in “efficient” mode as if it was a 320

I have used both f80 and old 911 as daily, and I guarantee the daily experience is fine but compromised in old 911 due to road noise and old tech.

When you drive the f80 car and start to slide it around, it’s a lot of fun and shows a different side.

There’s so many blanket statements on this thread that suggest f80 somehow is lacking in the Performance and fun department, and that’s not true.

If you prefer an “always on” experience and a low seating position, versus a “dual purpose” experience, then it’s a nice case for the old 911. But let’s not get carried away with blanket statements

Honestly, I think the 911 does the dual purpose thing better, unless you are carpooling and need to fit people - I’d guess most don’t. The 911 is more engaging and fun to drive or slide, suspension is more compliant yet sportier, it has the stuff like steering and gearbox by good margin and sounds better too. I thought if anything, my 991.2S and T with PSE are a bit too quiet.

[996ttelise]

Originally Posted by Funf6cyl

Honestly, I think the 911 does the dual purpose thing better, unless you are carpooling and need to fit people - I’d guess most don’t. The 911 is more engaging and fun to drive or slide, suspension is more compliant yet sportier, it has the stuff like steering and gearbox by good margin and sounds better too. I thought if anything, my 991.2S and T with PSE are a bit too quiet.

911s are awesome daily drivers and much more comfortable than the F80 ZCP. No comparison. I don't hear or am bothered by road noise and this is cabriolet.

The GTS with PSE has a sweet sound. Sounds a bit Italian or flat plane crank like, especially cruising on interstate with top down in 3rd or 4th gear and it just screams when coming on cam around 6,500 rpms.

[mjposner]

All good points pro/con 911 vs F80. If you need the versatility the F80 offers (backseat and larger trunk) you have your answer, but if you drive solo or with 2 most of the time I think 8/10 people would pick a 911 over an M3.

[mmmmQuattro]

Originally Posted by 996ttelise

.

better brake feel, better sound and much better looks.

Not sure about the brakes... I want to put turbo discs on my 997, as the M4 feels better.

in terms of sound, it's ironic that over on rennlist everyone's complaining how 997s sound. Standard a 997 is pretty quiet.
I actually think the 991.2 sounds similar to an M4 at low revs.

[mjposner]

"Standard a 997 is pretty quiet" Agreed, even the M4 is too quiet, my valves are tied open.

[jpy1980]

Ah so the answer is just to get both the m3/4 and the Porsche. I’m 50% there!

[eonflux]

Originally Posted by 25meterzero

I have a 2018 comp M3 but I still think I want a 911. I like the recent late models 997 possibly 991. Something about the looks of the newer ones are to modern from what the older 911 I remember as a kid.

Has anyone had a 997 and now an m3 have any insight. I know the 911 will have a flat six naturally aspirated will the loss off power be missed?

Growing family forced me out of a 991.1, and eventually I got to a M3 (F80) ZCP 6MT.

Every time I drove the M3, I missed the 911.
Even though the 991.1 NA engine has less torque than the M3, much better sound, loved revving it, etc.
Steering and steering feel much better in the 911.
And better balance of ride firmness/comfort.
Overall, just a more satisfying car to drive on the road.

If you're worried about missing torque, a 991.2 would be better.

991 will be a better daily than a 997.
Nicer interior, more comfortable, quieter, better tech, etc. But will still be more fun the M3.

[jdgamble]

I had a very basic 997 Carrera with PDK and Sport Chrono SW update, and while I love my M3, I miss the Porsche experience. Handling and traction are on a different level. Even with the 345 hp base engine, the car was very quick... granted nothing like the M3, but the thing jumped off the line.

If I was going the Porsche route today, I would go 991.2 base with Sport Chrono. The entry price there for a CPO is around $80k. Alternatively, you could get a 991.1 S for less. The CPO thing is key IMO, as Porsche’s are absurdly expensive to fix if something goes wrong. Frankly, that’s why I sold the car. I was afraid it was going to fail.

One thing the M has all day though is the brutal power delivery. I doubt a 991.2 S would feel as fast as the M. It might actually BE faster, but the torque in our cars is insane. I would miss that if I went back.

[MACHT]

Added a 992 CS to my collection. Vastly different than the M3 (still love the Beamer though)

[Funf6cyl]

Originally Posted by jdgamble

I had a very basic 997 Carrera with PDK and Sport Chrono SW update, and while I love my M3, I miss the Porsche experience. Handling and traction are on a different level. Even with the 345 hp base engine, the car was very quick... granted nothing like the M3, but the thing jumped off the line.

If I was going the Porsche route today, I would go 991.2 base with Sport Chrono. The entry price there for a CPO is around $80k. Alternatively, you could get a 991.1 S for less. The CPO thing is key IMO, as Porsche’s are absurdly expensive to fix if something goes wrong. Frankly, that’s why I sold the car. I was afraid it was going to fail.

One thing the M has all day though is the brutal power delivery. I doubt a 991.2 S would feel as fast as the M. It might actually BE faster, but the torque in our cars is insane. I would miss that if I went back.

The 911s are so well built and are stout on reliability not sure why you’d even worry.
The M3/M4 tq does rather come on strong and abruptly but as someone who has owned all (M3/M4/991.1S/991.2S and 991.2T) even the T feels faster than my M3/4 with 6MT and the S more so. They have more linear delivery so they don’t feel as bottom heavy with torque as the M3/4 but they do rev out and pull harder on the top end (and have better throttle response and quicker to boost) and trap speeds and track times support that (991.2T on summer tires is only .5 seconds behind a much more powerful M4 GTS on cups and the 991.2S in summers beats the M4 GTS on any track I’ve seen them compared). Just from my own days at Pocono Raceway and a couple other local tracks, the 911 is also easier to drive too.

[icegrill]

I like your screen name. Hell yeah bruther!

[jdgamble]

Originally Posted by Funf6cyl

The 911s are so well built and are stout on reliability not sure why you’d even worry.
The M3/M4 tq does rather come on strong and abruptly but as someone who has owned all (M3/M4/991.1S/991.2S and 991.2T) even the T feels faster than my M3/4 with 6MT and the S more so. They have more linear delivery so they don’t feel as bottom heavy with torque as the M3/4 but they do rev out and pull harder on the top end (and have better throttle response and quicker to boost) and trap speeds and track times support that (991.2T on summer tires is only .5 seconds behind a much more powerful M4 GTS on cups and the 991.2S in summers beats the M4 GTS on any track I’ve seen them compared). Just from my own days at Pocono Raceway and a couple other local tracks, the 911 is also easier to drive too.

Mine was going through about a qt of oil every 1000 miles, so that was where my fear was coming from. Porsche said it was within spec.

On a track the 991 kills the M3 for sure. I recently drove a 991.2 Carrera, and while the numbers are basically the same as the M3 (1/4 mile), it didn’t feel as fast. It did not have sport chrono though, so that might have changed things significantly. It’s that linear power delivery. I had the same feeling in the 991.1 S. I’m not saying they aren’t fast by any means. They will beat an M3 in most scenarios.

[mjposner]

If you think the 997 is too quiet, change the exhaust (or doa gundo hack like I did).

Been dd driving my 997.1 for 2 weeks now (M4 is resting) and it has been quite enjoyable.

While I have the stock PCM 2.1, I have the Bose system, sat radio and iPod connected so not terrible. Nav screen is 5.8", but hey, we use phone for nav so.....

[mjposner]

If you think the 997 is too quiet, change the exhaust (or doa gundo hack like I did).

Been dd driving my 997.1 for 2 weeks now (M4 is resting) and it has been quite enjoyable.

While I have the stock PCM 2.1, I have the Bose system, sat radio and iPod connected so not terrible. Nav screen is 5.8", but hey, we use phone for nav so.....

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by mjposner

If you think the 997 is too quiet, change the exhaust (or doa gundo hack like I did).

Don’t miss out on the opportunity to pay a massive Porsche tax on handmade, imported exhaust piping.

Previous owner of my car installed the “Loud 2” exhaust from Europipe

http://www.europipe.be/index.html

[996ttelise]

Originally Posted by mmmmQuattro

Not sure about the brakes... I want to put turbo discs on my 997, as the M4 feels better.

in terms of sound, it's ironic that over on rennlist everyone's complaining how 997s sound. Standard a 997 is pretty quiet.
I actually think the 991.2 sounds similar to an M4 at low revs.

I dunno about that. I have been on Rennlist since 2002 and do not see much at all regarding complaints about sound. There are always guys wanting to go louder or more aggressive with any model car, but that does not mean "everyone complaining." Total exaggeration . . .

My GTS is louder than my F80 with valves open at idle and all throttle positions. The GTS also has kind of a flat plane wail to it similar to an Italian. The F80 sounds like a fart can Honda.