M3/M4 vs W205 C63 AMG

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by Tonymiabmw

In all honesty if I drove the Mercedes and liked it, I would get one. My lease is up in my e90 in April. So doesn't look like a option.

If you ever find yourself in the Hoosier State, I will straight up let you drive my LCI C63. I don't know if you've driven the LCI model yet but I think you would be pleasantly surprised with the driving dynamics.

[Tonymiabmw]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

If you ever find yourself in the Hoosier State, I will straight up let you drive my LCI C63. I don't know if you've driven an LCI model yet but I think you would be pleasantly surprised with the driving dynamics.

I drove one before LCI. I liked the car but I guess I've always loved BMW steering and balance. Maybe this will change now that the M3 has electric steering. I keep a open mind. I guess I've always like M's balance of things.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by Tonymiabmw

I drove one before LCI. I liked the car but I guess I've always loved BMW steering and balance. Maybe this will change now that the M3 has electric steering.

Yeah the C63 has always had a hydraulic steering system. I know people find it hard to believe, but in my opinion, the C63's steering feel is on par (if not a touch better than) the M3's. The weight is heavy (in a good way) and consistent, regardless of what setting the car is in. You can really feel what the front wheels/tires are experiencing through the steering system. Turn-in is almost telepathic.

Both cars will oversteer on command but you can reel the E90 M3 back in with a bit more grace and precision. The C63, with its extra weight, snaps back a bit more violently.

The MCT is pretty good in all of the automatic modes (especially when just cruising in the city) but the DCT is better in M mode. It's just flat-out quicker at executing upshifts and downshifts.

[keno]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

Yeah the C63 has always had a hydraulic steering system. I know people find it hard to believe, but in my opinion, the C63's steering feel is on par (if not a touch better than) the M3's. The weight is heavy (in a good way) and consistent, regardless of what setting the car is in. You can really feel what the front wheels/tires are experiencing through the steering system. Turn-in is almost telepathic.

Both cars will oversteer on command but you can reel the E90 M3 back in with a bit more grace and precision. The C63, with its extra weight, snaps back a bit more violently.

The MCT is pretty good in all of the automatic modes (especially when just cruising in the city) but the DCT is better in M mode. It's just flat-out quicker at executing upshifts and downshifts.

I absolutely love the current C63, have driven them a few times, I think they're one of the most badass road cars out there. It really sucks MB will never offer a manual transmission, that was the only thing holding me away from one (I'm sure many other enthusiasts out there as well).

[Tonymiabmw]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

Yeah the C63 has always had a hydraulic steering system. I know people find it hard to believe, but in my opinion, the C63's steering feel is on par (if not a touch better than) the M3's. The weight is heavy (in a good way) and consistent, regardless of what setting the car is in. You can really feel what the front wheels/tires are experiencing through the steering system. Turn-in is almost telepathic.

Both cars will oversteer on command but you can reel the E90 M3 back in with a bit more grace and precision. The C63, with its extra weight, snaps back a bit more violently.

The MCT is pretty good in all of the automatic modes (especially when just cruising in the city) but the DCT is better in M mode. It's just flat-out quicker at executing upshifts and downshifts.

So what did MCB change with LCI? Besides bodywork?

[Tacoma]

Originally Posted by keno

I absolutely love the current C63, have driven them a few times, I think they're one of the most badass road cars out there. It really sucks MB will never offer a manual transmission, that was the only thing holding me away from one (I'm sure many other enthusiasts out there as well).

I used to be a BMW fanatic all the way and would scoff at MB for being overweight passenger-centric vehicles. However, with recent BMW's being softer, I think the gap is closed to the point where you can't automatically write off MB anymore, especially since the W205 is rumored to be pushing 500hp and shedding weight as well.

The only thing, as you say, that would make me stay with BMW is the lack of a stick shift with the Benz.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by keno

I absolutely love the current C63, have driven them a few times, I think they're one of the most badass road cars out there. It really sucks MB will never offer a manual transmission, that was the only thing holding me away from one (I'm sure many other enthusiasts out there as well).

Yeah I can certainly understand that frustration.

Originally Posted by Tonymiabmw

So what did MCB change with LCI? Besides bodywork?

Here's the rundown. With the LCI model, you get the following:

1) New suspension: Redesigned front axle, a reinforced rear axle and widening of the front track. Stiffer elastokinematics, revised geometry with more negative camber, and a larger rear stabilizer bar. Revised spring and damper rates.

2) MCT transmission (replaced the standard 7-speed automatic): Utilizes wet start-up clutch in lieu of conventional torque converter.

3) Transmission shifting program/throttle mapping control knob: You can select between C (Comfort/Controlled Efficiency), S (Sport; this is the recommended setting), S+ (Sport Plus; shifts at redline, perfectly timed automatic throttle blips on downshifts), M (Manual: you can shift via paddles or gear selector lever), and RS (Race Start; this is a launch control feature that is easy to use; the engine revs up to about 4,000 rpm while you're standing on the brake and gas pedals . . . release brake pedal and you're off).

4) New steering wheel w/ flat top and flat bottom design/

5) Brand new COMAND system with upgraded multimedia screen and an added LCD screen in the middle of the speedometer that allows you to control various car settings (includes an AMG Menu that allows you to see things from critical fluid temperatures [oil, coolant, etc.], lap timers, transmission/throttle settings, ESP settings, etc.). When in M mode, the LCD screen flashes red as you approach redline so you know to upshift without having to refer to the tachometer.

6) Improved cooling (bigger oil cooler, etc.).

There are a few more items with respect to the interior, etc. but those are the major upgrades with respect to driving dynamics.

[indus]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

Yeah the C63 has always had a hydraulic steering system. I know people find it hard to believe, but in my opinion, the C63's steering feel is on par (if not a touch better than) the M3's. The weight is heavy (in a good way) and consistent, regardless of what setting the car is in. You can really feel what the front wheels/tires are experiencing through the steering system. Turn-in is almost telepathic.

Both cars will oversteer on command but you can reel the E90 M3 back in with a bit more grace and precision. The C63, with its extra weight, snaps back a bit more violently.

The MCT is pretty good in all of the automatic modes (especially when just cruising in the city) but the DCT is better in M mode. It's just flat-out quicker at executing upshifts and downshifts.

I would go further and say the steering feel on the c63 was MUCH better than the V8 M3 imho.

[mkoesel]

I totally understand you wanting to wait for the C63 to hit before making the final call. In my case I was really looking toward the C63 because of the strong likelihood for the convertible. This will be the first time they've offered one (assuming they do, which I believe they will). There used to be CLK63 convertible, but that was really in a different price bracket than the M3 convertible whereas the C63 convertible should be very close to the F83 M3 in price. And I think it will be lighter than the M3 convertible due to the soft top and as result the added power will put it significantly in front of the M3 in straight line performance.

Now, I'm not saying the C63 sedan won't be in front of the F80 M3 in acceleration and perhaps many other areas as well. But for me, I think the sub-4s 0-60 time for the F80 with DCT is going to be fine. And I just absolutely have been taken by the F80's low wide looks. I like the new W205 C Class sedan well enough and I'm sure the C63 will look great (as the render above suggests), but I don't see myself liking it more than the F80.

Now, when it comes to the C63 coupe and convertible I am expecting to be blown away. The new S Class coupe looks absolutely stunning and if they can pull off essentially shrinking that down to create the C Class coupe/convertible while keeping the striking proportions, it's going to make for something very special in this class. F82/F83 M4 will quite possibly have nothing on it in the looks department, and if performance turns out to be comparable in most areas, we are going to have one heated battle between these rivals.

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't tempted by the F80. I'm holding out until Chris Harris and others get their hands on it.

There has been a lot of hype (deservedly so, as the weight has dropped, the power and torque have increased, etc.) but I'd like to see the hype validated. I still have to drive it too.

My biggest mistake with the F30 M Sport 335i was basically just pulling the trigger without driving it (only drove a 328i Sport Line).

And then, even if I end up enamored with the F80, I'll probably force myself to wait for the 2015 C63 to drop. Decisions, decisions. It is a great time to be a car enthusiast, that's for sure (although it does suck that all of the NA V8s are getting killed off like the dinosaurs ).

[f32458]

I am a former of the previous C63 and E90, E92 M3 owner. I am assuming the new M3/M4 will feel lighter, much more torquier, better chassis, responsive S55 and much more efficent than ever. I am guessing the new all forged S55 will be much easier to tune to gain power than S65. While 2015 C63 will have a 4.0 V8TT. Look at the current CLA45 2.0 M113 making 360hp stock. I wonder what will C63 be.

[Reid]

Wait for the C63.

[Harry Da Hamster]

I'm sure the biggest advantage to the new M3/M4 would be its weight. But i would not make a decision until i see and drive both vehicles. I'm not a big Mercedes Benz fan, but the AMG twin turbo V8 sounds like fun.

[jackmacm4]

Originally Posted by f32458

I am a former of the previous C63 and E90, E92 M3 owner. I am assuming the new M3/M4 will feel lighter, much more torquier, better chassis, responsive S55 and much more efficent than ever. I am guessing the new all forged S55 will be much easier to tune to gain power than S65. While 2015 C63 will have a 4.0 V8TT. Look at the current CLA45 2.0 M113 making 360hp stock. I wonder what will C63 be.

Hi there,
Correct me if I am wrong that there have been speculation that the new c63 will have close to 450 hp with the new engine. I think it will be a hard choice, however if the C63 comes out with a black series (at a reasonable cost), then I think it is a no-brainer
MAC

[damnitBobby]

no manual transmission = no care

[E92LNGCGY]

C63 is rumored to have 480hp and there is supposed to be a "S" model that should top 500hp. Also reports are stating the C63 will not get AWD. I am confident the C63 will be a monster and very fast in a straight line. Should be a good car.

[brava09]

I would wait for the C63, I prefer a V8 anytime.
The new C63 it is rumored to lose some weight as well. Should be fun

[Patronus86]

Are you actually considering a purchase of the C63 vs. the m3/m4? Or are you just polling everyone for their opinions?

The 2 really don't compare directly. The one with the V8 will likely have quite a bit more horsepower and will do well in a straight line. The new m3/m4 will go back to a 6 cylinder though with new turbo's. If it is at all a reflection of BMW's heritage and focus, it will be have much better balance and composure on the twists and turns of the road and track. I'm sure there will be aftermarket specialists who will try to figure out BMW's cpu and tune the car for increased horsepower and performance; how far they can take it remains to be seen.

So it all comes down to what you prefer...I'd wait until they are both out so that you can test them for yourself or at least read reviews. 99% of what has been said on this forum, including my above opinion, is guess work or vaguely based on what the car companies have told us as no one has actually given a detailed review of either car.

[Mr T]

My new M3 arrives in June as a replacement for a C63 Edition 507 (500hp) that I have owned since November last year, frankly I don't like it. It was a replacement for a 911 (991) so it was a tough act to follow. My sense is the C63 & M3 are completely different cars. The C63 is about brut power, the M3 focussed on overall performance. Having visited the Geneva Motorshow, I am far from convinced on the look of the new C-Class both inside and outside, overly detailed ala Audi. Ten weeks to go to the new arrival and I cannot wait. The hardest decision was colour but that is a debate for another thread.....

[Drift Master]

Just heard this on FLD the S version should bring a around 500+ HP and they are saying it will be RWD not a AWD. Anyone know more details released. Its a turbo V8 so torque and SOUND should be also great. I have not made an official order on an M4 yet just talking to my dealer and i am interested to know what MB is bringing to the table not so much from Audi RS5. I test drove an M5 DCT Yesterday and it felt like a boat and boring as hell. My wife Z4 35s felt like a faster car from the seat as it didn't feel so insulated from the road. I am leaning toward a MT this time especially after testing that DCT the first time yesterday.

[Maddict3]

love the fact that it will be RWD. BMW will outperform in the track.

[Tonymiabmw]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

If you ever find yourself in the Hoosier State, I will straight up let you drive my LCI C63. I don't know if you've driven the LCI model yet but I think you would be pleasantly surprised with the driving dynamics.

After all the crap I talked gonna go do some numbers on E63 AMG S tomorrow. White with all the carbon bits. Looks amazing. My f80 got a July build date. I can't wait till September for a M3.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by Tonymiabmw

After all the crap I talked gonna go do some numbers on E63 AMG S tomorrow. White with all the carbon bits. Looks amazing. My f80 got a July build date. I can't wait till September for a M3.

So now your not going to get the M3 at all?