Buying used? Be aware of BMW M Performance School cars for sale

[s3ries]

speaking of this, december 2016, fully loaded one came up at a bmw dealer locally with about 3500 miles, YMB with silverstone, carbon breaks fully loaded in a sense. i could have walked away with it for 5k down and 600 a month, 36 months/30k miles.... slept on the deal... regardless wasnt planning on purchasing, and coming with factory warranty anything broken would have gotten fixed

[minn19]

Originally Posted by f80_ymb

i work at bmw dealer and thats what they tell you at product genius training

It wont be the last time they give you wrong or incomplete information if they really said that about the school cars. Read the forums and you'll learn more about the BMW product lineup than from training.

[InsideMan]

Originally Posted by AchtungF80

Are they not reconditioned before sold pre-owned? I noticed they are not CPO but the major wear item as a result of track use...Brakes (pads, rotors, fluid, calipers), tires, any applicable bushings..etc.?

Yes, they are reconditioned. No expense spared.

[InsideMan]

Originally Posted by Jono2112

Another thought, any car is worth something, you just have to find the right price. Ask them to take another $10k off and throw in an extended warranty! If your hesitant, get a different car. It's your money. By the way, never trust any dealer. The more expensive the car is the higher the stakes and the more money they can make.
My car was on the lot for several months as everyone wanted the manual transmission. I did too, but took the hit as you can't option a used car your way. Turns out I'm happy with the ZF 8 speed. If those ///M cars sit, they will deal.

By the way, don't always trust buyers. They all say they must have certain options, but eventually they settle. If they can't find what they want, they'll make considerations.

[InsideMan]

Originally Posted by redbullfan

Would you guys buy a loaner car from a dealership?? Because I wouldn't, for the first 6k-7k miles they are filled with regular gas. I know this because I was always told to fill regular gas when I used to work at BMW. They also filled regular gas after they pdi new cars which also pissed me off.

Regular gas won't kill it. Calm down.

[Pflorio]

Originally Posted by noone

I'm looking into buying a used '16 competition M3. I noticed a couple of interest at United BMW, which I understand to be a high volume BMW dealer, and after explicitly asking if these cars were Driving School cars, I was told that yes, they were "Driving Program" cars. At first, the salesman on the phone said it was a leased car driven by a "BMW Executive". When I asked him again if this was a "Driving School" car, he went and checked with his manager and came back and confirmed my suspicion.

Be aware of these cars if you are buying in the used market. In my opinion, these cars are worth a significant amount less than what these are listed for since these were HEAVILY abused cars at M School. Most prospective buyers are probably not even aware these were Driving Program cars. I believe these cars were around 88K new and are selling at dealer auctions for around 66K.

Warning signs of a Driving School car:

1. Used car has the competition package.
2. Used car has carbon ceramic brakes with the cloth seats.
2. Used car has around 5-7K on the odo.
3. Used car's CarFax states a leased car, and then shows the car was sold at a dealer auction and "Listed as a manufacturer vehicle" around the 5-7K mark.
4. DMV registration was in Woodcliff Lake, NJ. This is where BMW NA is located

To be fair, the last three "warning signs" are the same for any brass hat car from corporate. Everything from 320's to 750's.

[dreamspeed]

I skip all the cars that have really low miles/were demo cars/were executive cars/etc.

Hard to tell if those were PDC cars, press cars, loaners etc.

I would much prefer an off lease unit....or better yet a trade in

[Scottiedog]

When I went on an M day here in the uk I got in a 135i and it had 8 miles on the clock! How many people do you recon kept within the running in rpm? I certainly wouldn't buy an ex M day car. Here in the uk all BMW cars be it staff or track day start with the registration letter Y which is a give away for us.

[JMD]

Originally Posted by Aubie4Pres

I live in Atlanta and recently purchased an M4 from United. They were very forth coming with me as to which cars were PDC cars. Also, they said BMW will not CPO a car that was used at the PDC, which should be useful for those searching.

They prolly don't offer it as "CPO",...but one prolly could still purchase some sort of warrant package during the sale.

[JMD]

Originally Posted by ORIGIN M.

Regardless... I'd never buy any used M car.

I've only had one "new BMW" a 2012 535i Sport,...and during the first 4yrs - 10 months,...the only issue it had was rotors replaced,....a common issue.

Going into year 5,...the brakepads/rotors were replaced (out of pocket $1800),...and recently, like last week, the iDrive system had to be replaced (another $1,800). The battery was also replaced as a pre-maintenance,...as I suspect it would require replacement sometime during the next 12 months.

Had the iDrive not gone South, I'd say the car was near perfect! That said, I bought a used '13 M5 6MT (around 32k on the clock),....it needed a new rear diff replaced prior to sale (this told me the car was driven hard,..or the previous owner was just unlucky,...I bought it anyway. Also, the usual coolant leak issue needed to be taken care of and the A/C was blowing hot air!

BMW wouldn't CPO the car,...so I bought a warranty pkg,....hadn't had any other issues with it.

Now,...where is that large oak tree,..as I need to bang my knuckles on it a few times.

[Ibiza]

Originally Posted by MasterP

CCB is worse for track. Forces big wheels and carbon rotors wear fast and expensive

Agreed, when I did a 2 day BMW Driving Experience Intense training, September 2014, at Hockenheimring, not one M4 had CCB.

[Phatcat]

Oh hell no, I would never buy a M school car. Just came back from another private session at M school, these cars are used and abused most of the time by students who doesn't know how to drive (me included first time around). Hard braking, bad shifts, and red lined all the time during drift class.

Not saying those cars will definitely have problems down the line, but one thing is for sure, they certainly will have more wear and tear.

Your average M car owners (not talking about the enthusiasts in this forum) doesn't track the car, probably hardly ever red lines the car, and likely just let the car auto shift (if has DCT).

[RobC2]

I forgot, but I remember during the tour at my PCD they said that the Performance Center has its own paint and body shop. Surely this is an indicator that the cars are getting touched up and repaired a lot. Even if you are fine with buying a car that was thrashed daily and is selling at full market price you will eventually have to sell or trade it. You can't just give it back like a lease and buyers/dealers are going to be all over any paint or body work. Yet another reason to stay away.

[HPIA4v2]

Originally Posted by RobC2

I forgot, but I remember during the tour at my PCD they said that the Performance Center has its own paint and body shop. Surely this is an indicator that the cars are getting touched up and repaired a lot. Even if you are fine with buying a car that was thrashed daily and is selling at full market price you will eventually have to sell or trade it. You can't just give it back like a lease and buyers/dealers are going to be all over any paint or body work. Yet another reason to stay away.

If you can't afford a paint gauge you can't afford a used M car

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by InsideMan

Regular gas won't kill it. Calm down.

My own anecdotal experience with loaners is that the dealers never have an opportunity to perform the first oil change. The last few I had were all over due.

[Fugly M3]

Originally Posted by RobC2

I forgot, but I remember during the tour at my PCD they said that the Performance Center has its own paint and body shop. Surely this is an indicator that the cars are getting touched up and repaired a lot. Even if you are fine with buying a car that was thrashed daily and is selling at full market price you will eventually have to sell or trade it. You can't just give it back like a lease and buyers/dealers are going to be all over any paint or body work. Yet another reason to stay away.

THIS...M School at Thermal was rock chip city!

[Captain Unknown GT4]

Ok, Thanks for info.
My main point was this, If a car is driven att track at 10 out of 10 balls out fast, the car will wear and suffer If all drive that well.(but most never ever get to drive this fast)

At these kind of events its more rookies and they cant even go 6 out of 10 in the car, so how hard they brake and slide and wear out tires/brakes its consumables and dont harm the car...

I got more than 600+laps driving Nurburgring every year since 2003, I did think when they call It expert driverstraining i go as I got a voucher Free 1200euro when buy M4 GTS and then I add 600 euro and do this. Never again as pace is slow and I could hardly use the car as they always brake you down(instructor in front)

It was in total 66 cars and people comming from all over the world, pace was slow. Hence cars hardly wear at al! No experienced driver will ever go at this again, I only did due Free voucher. This is fun for them not driving track alot, and cars hardly take a beating from It.

I see no difference around the world accually, the pace around any track is hardly 10 out of 10 as they always brake you down If you got speed.

Originally Posted by lemetier

The US Driver Training Program cars are not treated anywhere near as well as the RoW locations. BMWNA Legal Dept has a very different view as to how they are managed. The M Performance Pagid Brake pads are not allowed to be installed, which forced the fitment of CCB here as the standard M Compound pads were destroying rotors every day due to the high ambient temperatures.

[stefan]

I'd take a well maintained track car over someone that barely followed the factory recommended service intervals and did nothing more over the life of the car. Hard driving with increased service intervals and oil changes is way way better to 10,000mi intervals and stop and go traffic.

[michal12]

I bought a press demo car and no issues with it (no M car though), except the clutch needed replacing after approx. 85k miles.
However, one has to know what they are getting.
I knew what I was buying, the pricing was unbeatable, but the dealer of course "forgot" to mention what the car was..

[noone]

Originally Posted by minn19

With BMW refusing to CPO them or even allow you to buy an extended warranty is the biggest red flag to me. They don't even think they are going to last long without major repairs.

When I was there in April of 2016 I saw a few people go off track, especially on the skid pad exercise. It would have to be a much more significant discount for me to ever think of buying one.

As others have said, they do not crush them. My local dealer just recently had 4-5 of them for sale. The dead giveaway is that they have CCB, DCT, but usually are not very loaded after that and they are very low mileage with no CPO.

Exactly. As I posted in the initial post of this thread, the white one was purchased at auction for 66K. Assuming the sticker was around 86, I personally think United paid too much at 66K, but this is their business and I'm sure they will find a sucker that will pay 68k or more for it not realizing it was a M School car.

[chris82]

I think there's only one bit of proof you need as to whether these are going to be reliable or not and that's whether the car will come with a warranty. BMW has without a doubt done some very complex cost analysis on their end to determine if it makes sense to put a warranty on the car and they've also got engineers/mechanics saying stuff like "based on this use/mileage, part X will probably break at Y mileage and would cost Z dollars." If BMW thought their M school cars were going to be as reliable as a normal daily driven car, they'd just put a warranty on it.

In the end it's simple risk reward. It's worth something, but not as much as what a 7k mileage daily driven car is worth.

[chris82]

Originally Posted by stefan

I'd take a well maintained track car over someone that barely followed the factory recommended service intervals and did nothing more over the life of the car. Hard driving with increased service intervals and oil changes is way way better to 10,000mi intervals and stop and go traffic.

I agree, but I'd only do this if I knew the person well. My brother put 30 track days on his 335i, but took care of it meticulously. I'd buy that car sure, not a stranger's that did the same though