Suggestions for LESS camber?

[johnsopa]

My wife has a '16 M3. She is a pretty conservative driver in the corners and this car sees no track time. Sorry to disappoint, she loves the power in this car but doesn't take advantage of the handling very much, LOL.

Inside front tread wears out around 10k - 15k miles with well over 50% tread left center/outside.

Stock camber measures around -1.5 to -1.6 degrees. Toe is fine (neutral, in our case).

I would like to get to around -0.5 to -0.8 up front.

Before I go down the path of getting camber plates, has anyone come up with different solutions for reducing camber in the F8x M3/M4?

If not, does anyone know if the Millway or similar plates can REDUCE camber from factory settings?

Looking at TC Kline plates, they infer that you can't get less that factory stock camber: "Adjustable in 3/4 degree increments, from stock to +1.5"

Would prefer plates with a poly or similar bushing vs metal-to-metal spherical/monoball setup.

We DO have EDC.

Thanks.

[swagon]

M340i with a tune.

No sane person has ever wanted to reduce camber to get more mileage out of front tires on an M3.

[jim1013yyf]

narrower tires might help

[johnsopa]

Just heard back from Millway. They said their plates do not allow for reduced camber, just stock and more negative camber.

He mentioned that swapping spindles might help. I'm going to check to see whether F30 spindles a drop in replacements. Looks like $300 each side.

[dvq]

Originally Posted by johnsopa

Just heard back from Millway. They said their plates do not allow for reduced camber, just stock and more negative camber.

He mentioned that swapping spindles might help. I'm going to check to see whether F30 spindles a drop in replacements. Looks like $300 each side.

Don't think that'll fit. Not without changing other stuff like dampers.

[dvq]

Also I don't think camber is what's wearing her tires. I'm at 13,000 mi on some PS4S with -2.6 degrees up front and completely even wear. I'd be looking onto checking toe again, maybe at a different shop, or having a reputable shop check on all your bushings.

[robbo mcs]

Originally Posted by dvq

Also I don't think camber is what's wearing her tires. I'm at 13,000 mi on some PS4S with -2.6 degrees up front and completely even wear. I'd be looking onto checking toe again, maybe at a different shop, or having a reputable shop check on all your bushings.

Agree with this. Could be something happening with bushing or suspension play etc and toeing out under braking or cornering

[johnsopa]

Appreciate the feedback. Toe has been checked numerous times, it's fine. I've double checked it myself multiple times. I do my own alignments on my Radical race car and GT4 so I'm familiar with how to measure these things. It's so ironic this car has camber to match Porsche's GT cars. I guess high-roll center, etc. comes into play.

I've checked a few other F8x cars recently and they all had more inside wear than middle/outside on the front tires.

I'll have her take the car to the track to help even things out, lol.

I'm going to get ahead and get the Millway plates to see what I can get out of them. Worst case I'll get the base plates modified (or new ones made) to get a tad more outwards adjustment on the bushing plate.

[Nitrile]

maybe its time to trade her car for a c63 , definitely something to look into

[2020M2Competition]

Originally Posted by johnsopa

My wife has a '16 M3. She is a pretty conservative driver in the corners and this car sees no track time. Sorry to disappoint, she loves the power in this car but doesn't take advantage of the handling very much, LOL.

Inside front tread wears out around 10k - 15k miles with well over 50% tread left center/outside.

Stock camber measures around -1.5 to -1.6 degrees. Toe is fine (neutral, in our case).

I would like to get to around -0.5 to -0.8 up front.

Before I go down the path of getting camber plates, has anyone come up with different solutions for reducing camber in the F8x M3/M4?

If not, does anyone know if the Millway or similar plates can REDUCE camber from factory settings?

Looking at TC Kline plates, they infer that you can't get less that factory stock camber: "Adjustable in 3/4 degree increments, from stock to +1.5"

Would prefer plates with a poly or similar bushing vs metal-to-metal spherical/monoball setup.

We DO have EDC.

Thanks.

BMW makes different wheel hub carriers that would allow you to change camber by approximately +/- 0.5 degree

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=31_1121

Using the following should get you to around -1.0 degrees

Pivot bearing, camber correction, left +30 MIN

31217853637

Swivel bearing, camber correction, right +30 MIN

31217853638

In any case, I agree with what others have said that your tire wear issue may have more to do with toe than camber

[johnsopa]

This is very helpful, thank you.

So, based on BMW's name for these parts ("Pivot Bearing, Camber Correction, Left" or Right), I'm assuming these are the same as the standard M3/M4 hub carrier with the exception being that they have 0.5 degrees more position (less negative).

Looks like they're used for for repair purposes based on the notes: "In the case of a repair, if camber"

Millway plates are on their way, I'll see whether those will work, if not, might buy these hub carriers.

Toe is fine, I remeasured. It's neutral (zero toe), which is how I set our street cars.

Thanks again.

Originally Posted by 2020M2Competition

BMW makes different wheel hub carriers that would allow you to change camber by approximately +/- 0.5 degree

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=31_1121

Using the following should get you to around -1.0 degrees

Pivot bearing, camber correction, left +30 MIN

31217853637

Swivel bearing, camber correction, right +30 MIN

31217853638

In any case, I agree with what others have said that your tire wear issue may have more to do with toe than camber

[alex2364]

I've had front tires go 25k+ miles on my previous 2017 M4 with even wear so I agree with others that something is wrong with your toe alignment.

[johnsopa]

Just in case this helps anyone...

The Millway plates have their least aggressive setting the same as the stock setting. So you cannot use them to reduce camber at all, only gain more negative camber.

Going with SPL front LCAs instead.

[Ropes]

What wears out tires that fast is toe in regards to alignment settings. My NSX would eat tires in 5-6k ish miles on the rear with stock settings. Now the fact that you are eating fronts that fast is concerning because based on those driving habits the front tires should last longer. My wife went through tires that fast but she drove it hard, really hard, in the streets and told me that she just drives normal. Followed her a few times and was like oh really, easy driving lol.

[johnsopa]

So, to follow-up in case this helps anyone else.

TL;DR -- if you're looking for a more street-friendly setup, don't be afraid to try front LCAs for LESS negative camber.

Long version:

Reverified toe settings, completely neutral (aka zero toe).

Bought Millway street camber plates. Did not install them, confirm via measurements that it would not be possible to adjust for less camber than stock without removing material.

Purchased SPL front LCAs. Installed them late last week. Adjusted camber from around -1.7° (left) -1.6 (right) to -1.0° (both sides). Looks like there are easily enough thread to get close to 0° if desired. Set toe to neutral again (zero toe). Up/down roll forward/back a few times to iterate on this (I have a lift, but don't have an alignment rack, lol).

Took the car out for a ride. There is a tad bit more low freq NVH at low speeds. We have a long (1/4 mile+) gravel driveway and most nearby roads are tar/chip country roads. I could instantly tell there was a bit more NVH at low speeds. Didn't think that spherical joints on the LCA would make this much difference. Honestly, though, once I got above 40 mph or so, I didn't notice the slight increase in low speed NVH.

I instantly noticed that I like the steering and turn-in feel better. I've always thought this car felt heavy on initial turn-in. The slightly reduced caster from these LCAs is definitely to my liking. High speed stability is still very good (at least up to ~120 mph or so). I think -1.0° is providing a better contact patch for my version of spirited driving (I drive fast when appropriate but am not a crazy street driver). Corner grip felt good and TBH the car felt more neutral.

My wife knew I was working on her suspension but other than the goal of evening out tire wear on the front, she didn't have any expectations. She came back from her first drive and asked whether I changed anything related to the steering. She, too, loves the steering feel and thought that the car "turned better" (her words, lol). She didn't notice any difference in noise, even after I asked her.

We'll see how long the sphericals last before getting loose. I have similar bearings on other cars (Tarett toe links on a GT4) and haven't had issues but that car is not a daily driver at all.

So, in a nutshell, we are happy with this change. I'll report back in a year at the most with any changes in our impressions.