Eventuri Vs MSR

[M4 CSL]

Originally Posted by Kr3st

Don't consider. Just do it.

I don't even have my car yet but I have the FI-R's. LOL.

Still trying to decide on size. Would like to have them custom coloured to Mineral Grey to match the car. What do you think? The HRE P101 have a Gloss Charcoal which is very close.

[Imran@Evolve]

The Eventuri Intake was tested by us on our Dyno. For transparency sake a share holder of Evolve also has a shareholding in Eventuri.

The dyno graph above OP posted is the lowest stock vs highest with Eventuri to demonstrate what could have been shown as a delta.

This is the actual delta or highest stock vs highest with Eventuri.

Wheel Power



Flywheel Power



We will be taking a car to a Dynojet in the UK for testing this week. So once IND have tested there will be 2 independent results at least.

The below video shows the effect of the Eventuri intake in the real world on the F10 M5. Both cars are Evolve Stage 2 (Decat and Stage 2 Tune), the only difference between them is the Eventuri Intake.

[M4 CSL]

Originally Posted by Nate@IND

Checking now to see when the intake will be in. We are going to use AMS's dyno jet for the testing.

Update : - Hi Nate, How's the testing going? When you do test it, can you also do a comparison to the GruppeM, that I know you have.

[Igor_M5]

How can you even thoroughly test the affect of intakes on a dyno without simulating the force of air the intakes would normally experience on the road?

[M4 CSL]

Originally Posted by Igor@ONEighty

How can you even thoroughly test the affect of intakes on a dyno without simulating the force of air the intakes would normally experience on the road?

Something is better than nothing.

[Igor_M5]

Originally Posted by M4 CSL

Something is better than nothing.

Sometimes nothing is better than something.

There's your variable, now what?

[M4 CSL]

Originally Posted by Igor@ONEighty

Sometimes nothing is better than something.

There's your variable, now what?

What I meant was, for example Dinan and GruppeM both claim around 14 HP on the dyno.

So if Eventuri can get that, we can at least compare Dyno power. All be it a small number. As the Eventuri should get as much benefit as the MSR at speed?

I will test this with the one I buy, by monitoring AFR. Before and after whilst driving. If its starts to lean out after fitting the CAI, then it is making more of a difference at speed whilst driving....Agreed?

[Igor_M5]

Originally Posted by M4 CSL

What I meant was, for example Dinan and GruppeM both claim around 14 HP on the dyno.

So if Eventuri can get that, we can at least compare Dyno power. All be it a small number. As the Eventuri should get as much benefit as the MSR at speed?

I will test this with the one I buy, by monitoring AFR. Before and after whilst driving. If its starts to lean out after fitting the CAI, then it is making more of a difference at speed whilst driving....Agreed?

On what basis are they concluding their 14 HP gain?

My theory is that in order to provide intake HP gain as the final figure in improvement, it has to go wayyy back to AFR monitoring like you mentioned, then using that difference to simulate AFR results via dyno in order to see some type of feedback form the intakes.

My first reply was an honest question though. I'm interested since 3d designing and printing a N63 protoype intake 2 years ago, with which I've done about 20 dyno pulls with, and the avg figures were showing losses. Fast forward to 2 years, I'm especially interested after witnessing two M4's, back to back, both DP'd, one fitted with a BMS intake, the other stock. The only difference being one was on 93, and one fitted with BMS intakes was running on almost a 1:5 mixture of 100 & 93, hardly anything left of that 100.

Care to guess the results?

[M4 CSL]

Originally Posted by Igor@ONEighty

On what basis are they concluding their 14 HP gain?

My theory is that in order to provide intake HP gain as the final figure in improvement, it has to go wayyy back to AFR monitoring like you mentioned, then using that difference to simulate AFR results via dyno in order to see some type of feedback form the intakes.

My first reply was an honest question though. I'm interested since 3d designing and printing a N63 protoype intake 2 years ago, with which I've done about 20 dyno pulls with, and the avg figures were showing losses. Fast forward to 2 years, I'm especially interested after witnessing two M4's, back to back, both DP'd, one fitted with a BMS intake, the other stock. The only difference being one was on 93, and one fitted with BMS intakes was running on almost a 1:5 mixture of 100 & 93, hardly anything left of that 100.

Care to guess the results?

I think BMS would loose power. It is a HOT air intake. It is sucking in Hot air from engine bay. Its popular because its cheap. I want something that works. Something that looks awesome, and brings in COLD air from outside of the engine bay.

[Imran@Evolve]

Originally Posted by Igor@ONEighty

How can you even thoroughly test the affect of intakes on a dyno without simulating the force of air the intakes would normally experience on the road?

With a high pressure centrifugal dyno fan that produces circa 100 MPH. Not a small or a few small carpet drying snails that I see most shops using.

This is the fan that we use with our dyno.

Picture is in KMH = 99 MPH



Although this does not provide absolutely real air simulation does mean that we know the intakes will perform better in the real world than on the dyno as can be seen from the video of the F10 M5 above. There is only 10-15 BHP difference between those cars on the dyno which is enough to pull away in real world conditions.

[M4 CSL]

Originally Posted by Imran@Evolve

With a high pressure centrifugal dyno fan that produces circa 100 MPH. Not a small or a few small carpet drying snails that I see most shops using.


Although this does not provide absolutely real air simulation does mean that we know the intakes will perform better in the real world than on the dyno as can be seen from the video of the F10 M5 above. There is only 10-15 BHP difference between those cars on the dyno which is enough to pull away in real world conditions.

Hi Imran, can you tell me if the E.R. Downpipes will fit with the Eventuri?

I know AWE has clearance issues.

[Imran@Evolve]

Originally Posted by M4 CSL

Hi Imran, can you tell me if the E.R. Downpipes will fit with the Eventuri?

I know AWE has clearance issues.

Not tested it but can't see how it would have clearance issues with downpipes as the tubing follows the factory path.

[CaryTheLabelGuy]

Originally Posted by M4 CSL

What I meant was, for example Dinan and GruppeM both claim around 14 HP on the dyno.

So if Eventuri can get that, we can at least compare Dyno power. All be it a small number. As the Eventuri should get as much benefit as the MSR at speed?

I will test this with the one I buy, by monitoring AFR. Before and after whilst driving. If its starts to lean out after fitting the CAI, then it is making more of a difference at speed whilst driving....Agreed?

Unless you can force open-loop, you won't be able to test using the AFR method because the DME will just target the correct AFR. You can, however, monitor the fuel trims to see if they go up or down but be careful as there can be several factors that can alter fuel trims separate from just IAT

[Mit_Boost]

Originally Posted by M4 CSL

I am always concerned about pod type filters in the engine bay, that they are HAI's. (Hot Air Intakes) Just sucking in hot engine air. Its why I am also considering MSR. They stick the filters out on the cold air. They are a True CAI.

This is a misconception. Terry provided an abundance of data when people said the same thing about the N54 DCI's being in the engine bay and not having a "true' cold-air source. Reality with turbo motors is Air Flow > Cold Air. This has also been beaten to death on a variety of other turbo platforms (see Supra's, GTR's, Porsche Turbo's, etc.).

The path of least resistance is ideal, so if you're strictly worried about power, then run filters right off the turbos. Otherwise, adding extra piping just to have a true CAI results in additional resistance, further reducing power potential.

[M4 CSL]

Originally Posted by Mit_Boost

This is a misconception. Terry provided an abundance of data
The path of least resistance is ideal, so if you're strictly worried about power, then run filters right off the turbos. Otherwise, adding extra piping just to have a true CAI results in additional resistance, further reducing power potential.

I don't subscribe to that point of view. BMS make no power claim, because theirs make no power. Its no surprise to me that their Hot Air intake makes no power. The longest of all intakes at this point in time is the fastest.

There are plenty of M5's and M6's kicking butt against cars that have identical mods except the intake. So true cold air intake cars win races on the street.

Whilst Hot Air intakes provide no power. Its been beaten to death because People want to pay $500 for something that doesn't work rather than $2-$3K for something that does...all be it modestly.

If you want the real result, place a car with identical mods except a BMS Hot Air intake. Both cars fairly equal?

Now place the same two with an Eventuri or MSR. Suddenly not so equal.

I have seen this with MSR, and I will hold off on my purchase until I see it with Eventuri.

Hot air intakes don't work. BMS aren't even claiming theirs work.

But it would end the debate when they park beside an MSR equipped car.

[Mit_Boost]

Originally Posted by M4 CSL

I don't subscribe to that point of view. BMS make no power claim, because theirs make no power. Its no surprise to me that their Hot Air intake makes no power. The longest of all intakes at this point in time is the fastest.

What?!? You realize I'm talking about findings that are backed up with actual data?? ALSO, do you have any verification that the cars were "exactly" the same except for the intakes. Do you know what tunes they were running, octane, if the cars were hitting timing targets or experiencing timing corrections, inter cooling water temp, etc??



Guessing probably not. So until then, there's MUCH more "off the cuff" evidence that the path with less restrictions is the optimal choice. Ironically, intercooler efficiency will factor more into performance than ANY intake option.

[M4 CSL]

Data provided by the salesperson who is selling the product. (Whom tested it and said it made no power, as I expected HAI.)

I'm Not here to convince anyone of anything. I won't be putting a HOT AIR INTAKE on any of my cars EVER. My choice. You go ahead.

I don't need to test to the Nth degree. I just need to see equal cars except the mod in question, instantly pull two lengths on the other to know the mod made a difference..

How much difference, Enough. Just like the TPG Keyed Crank Hub. Very little data, doesn't stop me from getting it. You can argue all you want a handful of cars from 1,000s is meaningless. But I still bought it for me and no one else.

Originally Posted by Mit_Boost

What?!? You realize I'm talking about findings that are backed up with actual data?? ALSO, do you have any verification that the cars were "exactly" the same except for the intakes. Do you know what tunes they were running, octane, if the cars were hitting timing targets or experiencing timing corrections, inter cooling water temp, etc??



Guessing probably not. So until then, there's MUCH more "off the cuff" evidence that the path with less restrictions is the optimal choice. Ironically, intercooler efficiency will factor more into performance than ANY intake option.

[Irishace]

Originally Posted by Igor@ONEighty

On what basis are they concluding their 14 HP gain?

My theory is that in order to provide intake HP gain as the final figure in improvement, it has to go wayyy back to AFR monitoring like you mentioned, then using that difference to simulate AFR results via dyno in order to see some type of feedback form the intakes.

My first reply was an honest question though. I'm interested since 3d designing and printing a N63 protoype intake 2 years ago, with which I've done about 20 dyno pulls with, and the avg figures were showing losses. Fast forward to 2 years, I'm especially interested after witnessing two M4's, back to back, both DP'd, one fitted with a BMS intake, the other stock. The only difference being one was on 93, and one fitted with BMS intakes was running on almost a 1:5 mixture of 100 & 93, hardly anything left of that 100.

Care to guess the results?

So what were the results?

[M4 CSL]

Originally Posted by Irishace

So what were the results?

This i would imagine, as he never replied.

Originally Posted by M4 CSL

I think BMS would loose power. It is a HOT air intake. It is sucking in Hot air from engine bay.

[Vectors2final]

Pretty positive there is a power claim for the intake on the BMS website.

[M4 CSL]

Well nate @ IND has his and has dyno tested it.

Just waiting on results.

[Bart@AUTOcouture]

in for nate