M3/M4 vs W205 C63 AMG

[benn.]

i love everything about the next "m4" except for the
1) renaming to "4 series" (feels like it's ruining a tradition.. but the world is always moving forward so whatever)
2) basically has a reworked 335i engine.. why not buy a 335i and mod the engine.. i love the NA v8 too much.. (feels like i'm paying for a 335i with a body kit even though they switched to a twin scroll)
3) if i wanted a shitty sounding forced induction twin turbo 6 cylinder engine car i'd buy a gtr lol

however.. on the plus side.. because it's a reworked 335i engine i'm sure engine performance mods will be plentiful at model release

[Chrisfast]

I just hope the new M3/M4 is more involving. I think the problem I had with my 2011 was that it was uninvolving and uninspiring. I thought the car was great, but it was almost too easy to drive on the track. And as wonderufl as DCT is (and believe me, it is incredible), it was so boring I thought I was driving my wife's 335. Those are totally personal opinions though. Here are the facts. Mine was way too heavy. In the corners the M suspension does a great job of trying to hide it, but you just can't cheat the laws of phsyics. The torque was non existant, but I knew that going into it.
What I'm hoping for with the next one is that BMW does what they say they are planning and aim for the weight of the E46 M3. Hell, better yet, go after the E36. The inline 6 doesn't bother me in the least, that's BMW's heritage. Forced induction isn't one of my favorite things, but it's the way of the future apparently so I'll just live with it. And I'm really hoping BMW is watching Porsche and brings us a 7-speed manual so we don't lose a gear if we pick the manual over DCT. Oh, one more thing, please don't call the car an M4 BMW. That is just an insult to those of use who have owned M3's over the years. Anyway, my .02.

[lux]

Just having some fun speculation. Just read that the next generation C63 could have a 4L twin turbo V8 and AWD. Sounds like it could be a 4 door GTR.

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...mule-spy-shots

Speculation on engine:
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...ter-v-8-report

I've never been much of MB fan but I respected their bad ass NA engines. This new generation of AMGs with AWD will be able to put some serious power down. I'm looking forward to some great comparisons with the M3/M4 in 2015.

[19x]

Meh.

I know nothing about it, but I can guarantee you that it will be:

1. Heavy
2. No manual trans

Deal breakers.

[solstice]

Predictions. It will be too expensive and heavy with an ugly chrome appointed exterior and a gawd aweful interior with round vents, weird shifter, tack on nav screen and the M3 will spank it on any track.

[BMW M3 CRT]

According to german car magazines the new standard C205 would be 80 to 100kg lighter than the recent C204 ... reached by making many parts out of aluminium instead of steal - hood, fenders, doors and the trunk.

The choosen engine is not totally clear, some claims the new M177 4.0ltr.V8 TT als engine for the C205 C63 other says the car gets the M157 5.5ltr.V8 TT, because the M177 should debut first in the GT and the new C205 comes to early for the new engine!?
Up to 525hp could be possible for the next C63!

Greetings BMW M3 CRT

[mkoesel]

It is definitely on my radar. I like the idea of the small V8 and plus I want another convertible. Mercedes has not done a C convertible in the past but they will this time now that there is a coupe to base it upon. That should spawn a C AMG convertible hopefully. I figure it won't be heavier than an M4 vert due to use of soft top.

I think price will be comparable to the M3/M4.

[BMW M3 CRT]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

It is definitely on my radar. I like the idea of the small V8 and plus I want another convertible. Mercedes has not done a C convertible in the past but they will this time now that there is a coupe to base it upon. That should spawn a C AMG convertible hopefully. I figure it won't be heavier than an M4 vert due to use of soft top.

I think price will be comparable to the M3/M4.

Behind an C-class convertible is an big ?. It could be the case that they brings an new Sportcoupe (nearly confirmed!) instead.
Some sources has definetly ruled out an convertible based on the new W205 C-class. An possible A-class convertible simple could left no room for an C-class convertible until the all new E-class convertible (based on the new E-class!) hit the market.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by BMW M3 CRT

Behind an C-class convertible is an big ?. It could be the case that they brings an new Sportcoupe (nearly confirmed!) instead.

Well from my perspective the C coupe is 100% guaranteed. I don't care what speculation might remain out there, to me there is absolutely no chance - zero - that Mercedes intro'd the W204 coupe half way through the chassis cycle only to opt not to follow up with a W205 successor. I mean that scenario just makes no sense whatsoever.

None of that is relevant to the convertible, however.

Some sources has definetly ruled out an convertible based on the new W205 C-class. An possible A-class convertible simple could left no room for an C-class convertible until the all new E-class convertible (based on the new E-class!) hit the market.

The existence of the current E class coupe did not prevent the W204 C Class coupe, so I don't see why the existence of the E convertible will prevent an C convertible either.

CLA convertible is in a different segment, just like A3 convertible vs. A4 convertible.

In any case I agree a C AMG convertible is not a sure bet, but I give it a good shot.

[BMW M3 CRT]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Well from my perspective the C coupe is 100% guaranteed. I don't care what speculation might remain out there, to me there is absolutely no chance - zero - that Mercedes intro'd the W204 coupe half way through the chassis cycle only to opt not to follow up with a W205 successor. I mean that scenario just makes no sense whatsoever.

None of that is relevant to the convertible, however.

You are totally right ... no one denies an comming W205 coupe, this will come for sure, only the convertible is under strong questioning.

And about the engine I would spend my money on an M157 with around 500hp and an debut of the all new M177 in the "Porschekiller" GT End of 2014.

Originally Posted by mkoesel

The existence of the current E class coupe did not prevent the W204 C Class coupe, so I don't see why the existence of the E convertible will prevent an C convertible either.

CLA convertible is in a different segment, just like A3 convertible vs. A4 convertible.

In any case I agree a C AMG convertible is not a sure bet, but I give it a good shot.

The main problem is that there is allready an C-Class convertible - named E-Class convertible and some MB officials think that if could be possible to sell two coupes (for different typs of customers) in the segment, that doesn´t mean that its possible with an convertible ... there is no smaller coupe in the portfolio but with the A-Class an smaller convertible ... and C-Class Coupe and E-Class Coupe are for totally different customers - C-Class as sporty Coupe and E-Class as luxury Coupe, that the reason that there is no E-Class Coupe AMG Modell ... Convertibles in MB terms are all more luxury cars ... sporty and open meens SLK and SL.

You are right, that its A-Class convertible vs. A3 convertible but also E-Class Convertible vs. A5 convertible ... so I think first they would spend their money in an C-Class Sportcoupe aimed against A5 Sportback and 3er GT and an C-Class convertible is only possible when the E-Class Convertible gets bigger and was based on the new E-Class.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by BMW M3 CRT

You are totally right ... no one denies an comming W205 coupe, this will come for sure, only the convertible is under strong questioning.

I thought that's what you meant when you were saying "Sportcoupe instead", but I see now that by "Sportcoupe" you were referring to a BMW GranCoupe or Gran Turismo competitor.

And about the engine I would spend my money on an M157 with around 500hp and an debut of the all new M177 in the "Porschekiller" GT End of 2014.

M178 for that one.

Maybe M157 is used initially but I doubt it lasts. All AMG will go to the M177 or M178 eventually, and it makes little sense for the C AMG to have a 5.5L turbo when all of the more expensive models have the 4.0L.

...so I think first they would spend their money in an C-Class Sportcoupe aimed against A5 Sportback and 3er GT and an C-Class convertible is only possible when the E-Class Convertible gets bigger and was based on the new E-Class.

They can simply end production of the current E convertible once the C convertible is ready if that is necessary to prevent canibalization. The C will probably be higher margin.

By the way, there are spy shots of the W205 convertible so it's coming.

[pkimM3r]

Did you guys see the m5 comp vs e63S? The merc was cheaper and only weighed 100lbs more (could be due to awd system).

The c63 could be great. Why awd though?! But a v8 with a shit ton of power would be awesome. If the car could put the power down nicely it could be a great, and dare i say a better alternative. Even if the perf is better it will have to have great throttle response and styling to match my decision in buying one over an m4.

I also just saw the interior of the 2015 c class and besides the strange tomtom/garmin looking screen its nice. The center stack flows all the way to the center armrest in one swooping line. It looks much sportier than the f39 series.

The m4 will probably have an edge in fun to drive but i think the new c63 could be a beast at the track as well.

[JTO24]

Originally Posted by pkim1079

Did you guys see the m5 comp vs e63S? The merc was cheaper and only weighed 100lbs more (could be due to awd system).

The c63 could be great. Why awd though?! But a v8 with a shit ton of power would be awesome. If the car could put the power down nicely it could be a great, and dare i say a better alternative. Even if the perf is better it will have to have great throttle response and styling to match my decision in buying one over an m4.

I also just saw the interior of the 2015 c class and besides the strange tomtom/garmin looking screen its nice. The center stack flows all the way to the center armrest in one swooping line. It looks much sportier than the f39 series.

The m4 will probably have an edge in fun to drive but i think the new c63 could be a beast at the track as well.

+1 and yea the interior is up on MB's Facebook page.. Looks good!

[paddy335]

I still think BMW miss a niche by not doing an M3 wagon. Round here at least 25-30% (very much a ballpark) of the C63's are Estates.

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by JTO24

+1 and yea the interior is up on MB's Facebook page.. Looks good!

Good taste!!

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by solstice

Predictions. It will be too expensive and heavy with an ugly chrome appointed exterior and a gawd aweful interior with round vents, weird shifter, tack on nav screen and the M3 will spank it on any track.

You are right about those predictions, I'm sure. Here is the regular C-Class interior - not really all that bad. M3/4 has tack on nav screen, too - that's the trend these days.

[gblansten]

^^^

I really like the upcoming C class interior and I'm okay with that nav screen.

[lux]

+1 like the new MB interior. Very clean and modern. Nice flowing center stack--feels Porsche-ish but with less buttons. Not a fan of the nav screen.

I hope they reconsider a put a real DCT in their future C63. I heard the Speed Shift MCT is good but not better than BMW/Porsche/Nissan DCT.

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by camber

Meh.

I know nothing about it, but I can guarantee you that it will be:

1. Heavy
2. No manual trans

Deal breakers.

Also, those ugly Nav units that look like TV screens that were an afterthought are deal breakers. They look cluttered and intrusive. Yes, really, a deal breaker. It is one of the many reasons why I cancelled my 4-series ED this summer. The other was that stupid, fugly Aboriginal boomerang that somehow got stuck on the front fender (BMW calls it an air breather). Seriously BMW, that is the best you could do?

[buildbright]

Originally Posted by pkim1079

Did you guys see the m5 comp vs e63S? The merc was cheaper and only weighed 100lbs more (could be due to awd system).

The c63 could be great. Why awd though?! But a v8 with a shit ton of power would be awesome. If the car could put the power down nicely it could be a great, and dare i say a better alternative. Even if the perf is better it will have to have great throttle response and styling to match my decision in buying one over an m4.

I also just saw the interior of the 2015 c class and besides the strange tomtom/garmin looking screen its nice. The center stack flows all the way to the center armrest in one swooping line. It looks much sportier than the f39 series.

The m4 will probably have an edge in fun to drive but i think the new c63 could be a beast at the track as well.

Just watched it. Mercedes seems to really fall behind on transmissions. That engine in the E63S is a beast.

Right now I am weighing the M4 and the new C63. I predict the M4 will be lighter, better transmission, and more well balanced. The C63 more powerful, better interior, and maybe lower priced.

[paddy335]

Originally Posted by buildbright

Just watched it. Mercedes seems to really fall behind on transmissions. That engine in the E63S is a beast.

Right now I am weighing the M4 and the new C63. I predict the M4 will be lighter, better transmission, and more well balanced. The C63 more powerful, better interior, and maybe lower priced.

I am weighing M3 and C63, the MB mainly cos there will be a wagon, the BMW because I love BMW's.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by solstice

Predictions. It will be too expensive and heavy with an ugly chrome appointed exterior and a gawd aweful interior with round vents, weird shifter, tack on nav screen and the M3 will spank it on any track.

Based on history and DNA you are probably correct. On the other hand the W205 has the potential to be both a little lighter and significantly more powerful than the current car. My guess is that their benchmark (to beat) is there own 507 model today. It's going to be a quick car.

Originally Posted by lux

I hope they reconsider a put a real DCT in their future C63. I heard the Speed Shift MCT is good but not better than BMW/Porsche/Nissan DCT.

Fully agree. They just need to swallow the pill and make the DCT a standard AMG feature. There is hope since the CL/A 45 have a DCT though these models obviously share nothing in the way of drivetrain with the rest of the lineup, and even the non-AMG models get a DCT.