F80 M3 / F82 M4 S55 Tuning

[Powaup]

Originally Posted by ersin

I have seen pictures of both, but none side by side. Do you have such a pic? Please share. It would be instructive.


Cheers.

Here you go, N55 top S55 bottom

[ersin]

Well, of course that looks different: the S55 is cut open. Not to disagree or agree. I'd just like to see a good pic of each side by side. Same size and resolution and same angles. Anyway, thanks for the effort.

Going further though: you can see how the S55 has two turbos, the N55 one. The plumbing is slightly different: the S55 cooler is on top, the N55 out in front. In general, I'd have to say they look the same but different in particulars. By looks alone, the S55 seems to be an evolution of the N55. That's not to say they are, just that it looks that way.

Cheers.

[Powaup]

Originally Posted by ersin

Well, of course that looks different: the S55 is cut open. Not to disagree or agree. I'd just like to see a good pic of each side by side. Same size and resolution and same angles. Anyway, thanks for the effort.

Going further though: you can see how the S55 has two turbos, the N55 one. The plumbing is slightly different: the S55 cooler is on top, the N55 out in front. In general, I'd have to say they look the same but different in particulars. By looks alone, the S55 seems to be an evolution of the N55. That's not to say they are, just that it looks that way.

Cheers.

Yea I know I thought I saw a better picture before but this was as close I could find to a good comparison. Sorry about that

[Tiago@VRSF]

The S55 is closed deck whereas the N55 is an open deck block, that should be all that really matters for anyone looking for reliability at higher than OEM power levels.

[435iaffair]

Originally Posted by Tiago@VRSF

The S55 is closed deck whereas the N55 is an open deck block, that should be all that really matters for anyone looking for reliability at higher than OEM power levels.

this

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Tiago@VRSF

The S55 is closed deck whereas the N55 is an open deck block, that should be all that really matters for anyone looking for reliability at higher than OEM power levels.

+3

[Tonymiabmw]

5k down? I put 500 lol

[Np2014]

Any guesses on how much extra hp and tq a tuning company will come out with from an engine chip for the m3 or m4?

[Tonymiabmw]

Originally Posted by Np2014

Any guesses on how much extra hp and tq a tuning company will come out with from an engine chip for the m3 or m4?

If they can release one these computers are very fast and reject software tunes.

[IEDEI]

1hp
1tq

[swamp2]

Short answer: There will likely be only "hack" (piggy back) tuning for some time due to a deviously encrypted ECU (same as with the M5). The car will probably have close to 450 hp stock and there should be about 50 more hp to gain from a piggy back tune, meaning ~500 hp. With somer additional (significant) hardware changes 600 hp may be possible. The sky is the then the limit on cost, level of modification, how much harware you are willing to swap and lastly of course how much reliability decrease you can stomach...

[Lups]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Short answer: There will likely be only "hack" (piggy back) tuning for some time due to a deviously encrypted ECU (same as with the M5). The car will probably have close to 450 hp stock and there should be about 50 more hp to gain from a piggy back tune, meaning ~500 hp. With somer additional (significant) hardware changes 600 hp may be possible. The sky is the then the limit on cost, level of modification, how much harware you are willing to swap and lastly of course how much reliability decrease you can stomach...

Link to lengthy related discussion here.

Well, I for one need all of that, milk keeps getting warm on my way back from the shops. This new addition to the garage will not save me without help, since the distance is almost a mile.

It needs to be cold.

[Boss330]

In the last edition of German magazine Autobild Sportscars they ran a story covering 7 tuners plans for the M4:

All quoted around 500hp
Manhart quoted 500hp and 640Nm

Two companies claimed 510hp and 516hp respectively.

AC Schnitzer also said 500hp.

As swamp2 pointed out, these will all be piggyback tunes. Both because it's "impossible" to crack the ECU these days and just as much because German tuners need to comply with emissions legislation. By using a piggyback they can rely on the stock BMW software for the test cycle criterias (which only consists of fairly low load driving). That way they meet emission standards without problems, and can add power outside the test cycle criterias.

[BMW M3 CRT]

Originally Posted by Boss330

In the last edition of German magazine Autobild Sportscars they ran a story covering 7 tuners plans for the M4:

All quoted around 500hp
Manhart quoted 500hp and 640Nm

Two companies claimed 510hp and 516hp respectively.

AC Schnitzer also said 500hp.

As swamp2 pointed out, these will all be piggyback tunes. Both because it's "impossible" to crack the ECU these days and just as much because German tuners need to comply with emissions legislation. By using a piggyback they can rely on the stock BMW software for the test cycle criterias (which only consists of fairly low load driving). That way they meet emission standards without problems, and can add power outside the test cycle criterias.

I also read this article, but what none of these tuners says ... also with the best piggyback V/max would be max 250km/h or 280km/h (with M Drivers Package!) !!!

AND when I read the article/thread about the S55 engine, no tuner could give you an waranty that the M3/M4 would be significant faster with his tune, because allready BMW has done its best to optimise the driveability of an in this terms problematic turbo engine ... I think the S55 has this torque as it has because more torque would make the driveability not betterr.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by BMW M3 CRT

I also read this article, but what none of these tuners says ... also with the best piggyback V/max would be max 250km/h or 280km/h (with M Drivers Package!) !!!

AND when I read the article/thread about the S55 engine, no tuner could give you an waranty that the M3/M4 would be significant faster with his tune, because allready BMW has done its best to optimise the driveability of an in this terms problematic turbo engine ... I think the S55 has this torque as it has because more torque would make the driveability not betterr.

Well, AC Schnitzer has managed to delimit the M5/M6. And they use a piggyback. So, let's wait and see on that.

Did you also read the article in the same magazine abouth the Manhart M6? What did they say about the driveability and power delivery of that engine, which has been tuned even further...

Yes, driveability certainly can suffer after tuning. But not necessarily

We will just have to wait and see

[BMW M3 CRT]

Originally Posted by Boss330

Well, AC Schnitzer has managed to delimit the M5/M6. And they use a piggyback. So, let's wait and see on that.

Are you shure about this .. I couldn´t find the V/max deletion on their homepage.

And I have asked them via eMail about an tune + V/max deletion for our F34 GT and they answered, that the could offer an piggyback with more Power but no V/max increase is possible for any F-Car

And all regular F.. BMW cars from AC Schnitzer that have been tested, all have no greater V/max.

BUT I have heard rumors in the german m-forum that for the S63Tü an early software version is existing, which can be put on new and unused cars and which could be softwaretuned .. don´t know if thats true

[aus]

Piggybacks may not be idea, but I've seen plenty of N54's tracked without issues, including my 335 with a mild piggyback.

.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by BMW M3 CRT

Are you shure about this .. I couldn´t find the V/max deletion on their homepage.

And I have asked them via eMail about an tune + V/max deletion for our F34 GT and they answered, that the could offer an piggyback with more Power but no V/max increase is possible for any F-Car

And all regular F.. BMW cars from AC Schnitzer that have been tested, all have no greater V/max.

BUT I have heard rumors in the german m-forum that for the S63Tü an early software version is existing, which can be put on new and unused cars and which could be softwaretuned .. don´t know if thats true

Autobild Sportscars did a top speed run at Nardo last year. Many cars participated, as well as ACS with their M6 GC. They did a verified 320km/h but then hit a second limiter... They later found out that there is a limiter in the DCT set at 320km/h as well as the other one set at 305km/h.

Later this year (may I believe) Autobild Sportscars will do a new top speed test at the Continental test facility. ACS will be there once again with the M6 and have now hopefully cracked the DCT limiter as well.

[/// M sa]

The car is already silly fast, piggy back will add some good gains as long as there are no limp modes etc.. I ll wait and see but it's a matter of time before someone does crack the ecu.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by //M sa

The car is already silly fast, piggy back will add some good gains as long as there are no limp modes etc.. I ll wait and see but it's a matter of time before someone does crack the ecu.

How long as the F10 M5 and new M6 been out? Theirs have not been cracked. I think I recall reading about the way to do it - buy an entirely new ECU and not from BMW...

[1slowE82cp]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Short answer: There will likely be only "hack" (piggy back) tuning for some time due to a deviously encrypted ECU (same as with the M5). The car will probably have close to 450 hp stock and there should be about 50 more hp to gain from a piggy back tune, meaning ~500 hp. With somer additional (significant) hardware changes 600 hp may be possible. The sky is the then the limit on cost, level of modification, how much harware you are willing to swap and lastly of course how much reliability decrease you can stomach...

Link to lengthy related discussion here.

You said it, on my 135i I did a stage 2 tune and on pump i made 389whp and 423wtqr. My old car(2012 135i dct) made 287whp and 302wtqr stock like paper plate stock(car made 300hp 300tqr on paper). Now if you think about it, BMW's are often super underrated for insurance purposes and not to start a HP war. Stage 2 consisted of full turbo back exhaust + CAI + aftermarket FMIC plus a tune. (with Cobb tuning)
This new engine should be making some good power, lets hope.

[/// M sa]

Originally Posted by swamp2

How long as the F10 M5 and new M6 been out? Theirs have not been cracked. I think I recall reading about the way to do it - buy an entirely new ECU and not from BMW...

We have to wait and see, it's possible that it will never be cracked and piggy back is the only way to go which is fine since I used jb4 and used to installation but piggy backs are not stable as flash and not as smooth.