GTS vs M4 CSL Thoughts?

[bdogk]

Interested to hear other GTS owner's perspectives/first impressions on the new CSL. Let's get started.

Myself:

Pros - carbon seats, S58 with more power w/o needing H20 injection, iDrive8, probably better chassis, Cup2R's, roll cage, fully adjustable dampers

Cons - gigantic grill, no rear wing, color scheme, no roll cage

[SYT_Shadow]

I'm excited about it, but will be keeping GTS1 and GTS2 for the foreseeable future

This feels like a E46 CSL, a lighter, more focused variant. By virtue of not having more aero, not having 3 way manually adjustable suspension and not having a half cage, it is not meant to really substitute the GTS.
In the E92 GTS and F82 GTS, BMW went a step further than the CSL in terms of track worthiness.

I could easily see a GTS slotting above the new CSL for track use.

I'm sure it is way, way faster than the F82 GTS, but still not designed for the same purpose.


The GTS was really special, with the KW CS 3 way suspension. As I predicted a while ago, they moved away from that hardcore setup and went to EDC on steroids. This way, all the morons who tested the GTS in the wrong settings but who are capable of pressing 'sport +' will be happy

[kyrix1st]

No MT/DCT and still a heavy pig.

[bdogk]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I'm excited about it, but will be keeping GTS1 and GTS2 for the foreseeable future

This feels like a E46 CSL, a lighter, more focused variant. By virtue of not having more aero, not having 3 way manually adjustable suspension and not having a half cage, it is not meant to really substitute the GTS.
In the E92 GTS and F82 GTS, BMW went a step further than the CSL in terms of track worthiness.

I could easily see a GTS slotting above the new CSL for track use.

I'm sure it is way, way faster than the F82 GTS, but still not designed for the same purpose.


The GTS was really special, with the KW CS 3 way suspension. As I predicted a while ago, they moved away from that hardcore setup and went to EDC on steroids. This way, all the morons who tested the GTS in the wrong settings but who are capable of pressing 'sport +' will be happy

Agree, and the fact that it's only 8 secs faster around Nurburgring likely resulted from wearing Cup2R''s in place of Cup2's on the GTS.

[D_SheerDrivingPleasure]

Will BMW make a true track variant for this platform like the F82 GTS?

I wonder if those bucket seats come with a real race harness or are they just for show?

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by D_SheerDrivingPleasure

Will BMW make a true track variant for this platform like the F82 GTS?

I wonder if those bucket seats come with a real race harness or are they just for show?

I'm hoping they will! But it's TBD

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by bdogk

Agree, and the fact that it's only 8 secs faster around Nurburgring likely resulted from wearing Cup2R''s in place of Cup2's on the GTS.

It’s actually 12sec faster. The 7:20 is for the full length lap, the CSL did the AM&S supertest lap length in 7:16 (you can see the timing for that lap length in the video), which was the same lap length that was used for the GTS 7:28 lap. Jorg also explains this at the end of the video.

When put in perspective, I find that 12sec is still not a major improvement when considering the PSC2R and Nurburgring repave that happened since.

[kyrix1st]

I really wonder how much "cost" they are saving vs. going with a more efficient M-DCT on a limited edition car.

[smokinm6]

No doubt it's an 'awesome' car, but at the price point I think it's more marketing than Motorsport. Also, it looks like something out of need for speed most wanted. Maybe in a different color it would look better.

If I had the extra money lying around would I like one? Well sure….would I trade the GTS? Nope. I do need to get some M bucket seats though and chuck the US GTS seats. That's the only thing missing from the GTS package in my opinion.

[schnell325]

Originally Posted by smokinm6

No doubt it's an 'awesome' car, but at the price point I think it's more marketing than Motorsport. Also, it looks like something out of need for speed most wanted. Maybe in a different color it would look better.

If I had the extra money lying around would I like one? Well sure….would I trade the GTS? Nope. I do need to get some M bucket seats though and chuck the US GTS seats. That's the only thing missing from the GTS package in my opinion.

Absolutely agree. Our seats SUCK

[JLS_397K]

Originally Posted by bdogk

Agree, and the fact that it's only 8 secs faster around Nurburgring likely resulted from wearing Cup2R''s in place of Cup2's on the GTS.

Its funny that you mentioned that, not even a second more went by that my pops immediately state that he believes its due to the tires as well while watching BMW M debut video .

[JLS_397K]

Originally Posted by smokinm6

No doubt it's an 'awesome' car, but at the price point I think it's more marketing than Motorsport. Also, it looks like something out of need for speed most wanted. Maybe in a different color it would look better.

If I had the extra money lying around would I like one? Well sure….would I trade the GTS? Nope. I do need to get some M bucket seats though and chuck the US GTS seats. That's the only thing missing from the GTS package in my opinion.

Our DOT screwed us on getting the Euro Spec GTS... We have to get our own seats, our own harness points welded, and get the belts to go with it, and purchase the fire extinguisher.

Hopefully, If BMW unveils a G8X GTS, it well be accepted completely by DOT without losing its poise and features that we appreciate from reporters across the pond.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by JLS_397K

Our DOT screwed us on getting the Euro Spec GTS... We have to get our own seats, our own harness points welded, and get the belts to go with it, and purchase the fire extinguisher.

Hopefully, If BMW unveils a G8X GTS, it well be accepted completely by DOT without losing its poise and features that we appreciate from reporters across the pond.

I wouldn't complain too much about how the DOT and BMW handled the F82 GTS. We got an OEM rollbar that Porsche is not able to bring over on their much more expensive 3/RS models.

I used BK seat mounts and the eyebolts that came with my 6 points to mount the shoulder belts and all the rest, so I have zero welds anywhere.

For sure I miss the seats, that would have been awesome!

[JLS_397K]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I wouldn't complain too much about how the DOT and BMW handled the F82 GTS. We got an OEM rollbar that Porsche is not able to bring over on their much more expensive 3/RS models.

I used BK seat mounts and the eyebolts that came with my 6 points to mount the shoulder belts and all the rest, so I have zero welds anywhere.

For sure I miss the seats, that would have been awesome!

I understand that their is a compromise to most government regulations and trade, yet we have these manufactures who sometimes produce great functional equipment or better safety standards, not that our DOT is horrible, but there appears to be prolonged delays to acquiring these advancements or accepting these vehicles/tech. I also understand that the one could make the argument that most people may not fully posses the knowledge or training to get out of a 6 point safety harness after a collision quickly (i.e. Fire/ Car collision). Yet BMW still kept the normal seatbelt. So again it goes back the the buyer and the liabilities/ responsibility that they now inherit with said purchase. There was ONLY 300+ M4GTS imported to the States compared to the mass domestic and imported vehicles manufactured/sold. That seems like it would be low on the totem poll to really be overly concern and stringent. That's just my thought.

Hell, California voted to ban Daylight savings back in 2018, Still hasn't happened. (-.-)

The CSL definitely has some wow factors and "That's Neat" attributes. However, when you get down to bang for your buck, it feels like it may be falling short. Sometimes getting 85% of a CSL, that being normal M3/M4 will give you overall better ROI in terms of comfort, enjoyment, and financially. Even if you claim this car is made for a financially better off individual, even "millionaires" may not live within their budget. Some of these wealthy people are living in a house made of cards.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by JLS_397K

I understand that their is a compromise to most government regulations and trade, yet we have these manufactures who sometimes produce great functional equipment or better safety standards, not that our DOT is horrible, but there appears to be prolonged delays to acquiring these advancements or accepting these vehicles/tech. I also understand that the one could make the argument that most people may not fully posses the knowledge or training to get out of a 6 point safety harness after a collision quickly (i.e. Fire/ Car collision). Yet BMW still kept the normal seatbelt. So again it goes back the the buyer and the liabilities/ responsibility that they now inherit with said purchase. There was ONLY 300+ M4GTS imported to the States compared to the mass domestic and imported vehicles manufactured/sold. That seems like it would be low on the totem poll to really be overly concern and stringent. That's just my thought.

Hell, California voted to ban Daylight savings back in 2018, Still hasn't happened. (-.-)

The CSL definitely has some wow factors and "That's Neat" attributes. However, when you get down to bang for your buck, it feels like it may be falling short. Sometimes getting 85% of a CSL, that being normal M3/M4 will give you overall better ROI in terms of comfort, enjoyment, and financially. Even if you claim this car is made for a financially better off individual, even "millionaires" may not live within their budget. Some of these wealthy people are living in a house made of cards.

The base cars are always better value for money when you look purely at performance per dollar. That's because BMW spoils everyone and gives you seriously capable base cars

HPDE clubs will not allow you to use a 6 point without a Hans/head restraint device, so there's pretty much zero chance of an OEM manufacturer releasing a car with 6 points for the street.

[Darth One]

Now that more facts are out, i think that by and large this is a matter of re-applying the GTS formula to the G82. Which is what i think we expected anyway. The main pros (better performance, better interior) and cons (automatic trans, terrible exterior) are more attributable to the differences between F82 and G82, not to the GTS vs CSL trim.

With three exceptions:
Love that they got rid of the stupid water injection
The rear deck helmet carrier is pretty cool
The CSL trunk replacing the GTS adjustable wing is an aesthetic improvement, but i wonder what downforce trade offs came with that decision

[JustAnothaM4]

Apples to Oranges comparison to be honest...

GTS is just more hardcore than the CSL...it is what it is.

1. No water injection cooling is a huge miss. People that track in hot climate will agree here. The added horsepower is great! BMW should perfect this tech for future GTS models.
2. Rear deck helmet carrier is trash...where the hell is the rollbar?!?!
3. GTS rear wing aero > than CSL bootlid

That automatic transmission is mehhhh and the G8x in general doesn't look very pleasing (CSL with those red accents = LOL) . Your opinion may differ so to each his own on looks.

I would like to see a more hardcore lightweight G82 M4 GTS vs this CSL.

I mean....*shrug*

[JLS_397K]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

The base cars are always better value for money when you look purely at performance per dollar. That's because BMW spoils everyone and gives you seriously capable base cars

HPDE clubs will not allow you to use a 6 point without a Hans/head restraint device, so there's pretty much zero chance of an OEM manufacturer releasing a car with 6 points for the street.

That's a valid point but some other car clubs will allow it as the car was manufactured that way. I don't know why you wouldn't invest in a helmet and Hans device if you are going to go to track events. Some people will spend thousands of dollars for lighter rims, stickier tires, and BBK's yet neglect the safety portion.

[D_SheerDrivingPleasure]

The CSL appears to be a clever money grab (just like all those new limited edition 911 variants). It's going to take a lot more to convince you loyal F82 GTS folks to upgrade, right? I'm in a lowly f80 zcp 6mt and I'm not upgrading unless there is something a lot more special than this CSL.

Let's hope BMW releases a last hurrah track day special or purist car before the ICE age ends. Even better if it has 4 doors and clutch pedal. Wishful thinking I fear.

[Bashful]

I dunno I also feel, the same Cup R tires and as stated the repaved/changes to the ring.... I would be shocked if the GTS didn't post a fairly faster time...

[schnell325]

Originally Posted by Bashful

I dunno I also feel, the same Cup R tires and as stated the repaved/changes to the ring.... I would be shocked if the GTS didn't post a fairly faster time...

Who do we know who owns a GTS in Germany? I’d start a GOFUNDME

[JLS_397K]

Originally Posted by schnell325

Who do we know who owns a GTS in Germany? I’d start a GOFUNDME

Ideally, someone would be able to log into this forum as it is designed to be used from such a land far far away and be able to attempt to set some Lap time. Who knows. Maybe BMW could use the track again and do a full re-run special of M Cars by professional drivers and just put a general number on board. Otherwise we are limited to future local track post by enthusiast.