2015 BMW M4 vs. 2015 Lexus RC F – MotorTrend Head 2 Head

[FogCityM3]

Telling is when you see the side-by-side around the track. The Lexus is extremely smooth, with minimal steering correction while the M4 is constantly being corrected and man-handled. Someone like Randy can exploit the faster albeit clearly trickier to drive M4. In the straights the M4 clearly is faster but looks like Lexus makes up time in the corners. Given the weight differential I would have expected a much faster M4 time and this lends credence to the “smooth is fast” formula, especially for amateurs.

Originally Posted by V1.47fan

How's that a landslide victory if around the track where acceleration, braking, cornering, etc. Come into play, the RC-F ran 1:24.05 vs 1:23.73?

[///MPharaoh]

I'm an ///M fan first, but wish Lexus would give the ///M division the finger and release something a bit less tame as a stock package. With that said...lap times so close. Looks like the RC F would be very good with some weight reduction efforts and a few upgrades especially in the suspension department. ...his last quote "any monkey can drive these things" hahaha

RC F is....uglyyyy

[onatuesday]

I hope that those of you who are going to the track know how to handle a car like the M4. If not, you should take a high performance driving school. The M4 is clearly a handful particularly at shorter, bumpier tracks where putting down the power is essential to a good lap time.

When Road and Track did their lap times in the M4 at the Motown Mile they M4 was actually SLOWER than the RS5 by over a second. Now that driver clearly didn't know what he was doing but it does illustrate that it's not a forgone conclusion that the M4 will win at the track if the driver isn't up to the task.

[TheBingoBalls]

How the roles have changed. When it was the W204 C63 AMG and E9X M3, everyone was complaining how the C63 was a lot harder to control, you needed a driver that knew what they were doing vs. the E9X M3 where it was a lot easier to control/handle. The F8X now plays the role of the old C63 AMG where it's a handful because of all the power/TQ and the RC F is like the E9X M3, fully capable and a lot easier to drive but people are saying that like it's a negative thing...

[onatuesday]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

How the roles have changed. When it was the W204 C63 AMG and E9X M3, everyone was complaining how the C63 was a lot harder to control, you needed a driver that knew what they were doing vs. the E9X M3 where it was a lot easier to control/handle. The F8X now plays the role of the old C63 AMG where it's a handful because of all the power/TQ and the RC F is like the E9X M3, fully capable and a lot easier to drive but people are saying that like it's a negative thing...

Doubt your post is directed at me, but just in case I am not saying at all that I dislike that the M4 is a handful. I actually LOVE IT. But I also am a graduate of Skip Barber and Bondurant Formula driving schools and so I can appreciate the nuances the M4 let's a skilled driver explore. But for the average driver, the RS5 and "easier" cars to drive at the limit may very well put down a better lap at the track.

[mti]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

How the roles have changed. When it was the W204 C63 AMG and E9X M3, everyone was complaining how the C63 was a lot harder to control, you needed a driver that knew what they were doing vs. the E9X M3 where it was a lot easier to control/handle. The F8X now plays the role of the old C63 AMG where it's a handful because of all the power/TQ and the RC F is like the E9X M3, fully capable and a lot easier to drive but people are saying that like it's a negative thing...

+1

[chris82]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

How the roles have changed. When it was the W204 C63 AMG and E9X M3, everyone was complaining how the C63 was a lot harder to control, you needed a driver that knew what they were doing vs. the E9X M3 where it was a lot easier to control/handle. The F8X now plays the role of the old C63 AMG where it's a handful because of all the power/TQ and the RC F is like the E9X M3, fully capable and a lot easier to drive but people are saying that like it's a negative thing...

I get what you are saying here. In another instance, when Top Gear did the E9x M3 vs Lexus ISF comparison, they said it requires much less effort to get the same lap time from the M3 than in the ISF. In that review it was a plus for the M3 (makes sense to me lol). Now in this RCF vs. M4 review everyone seems to be saying that the Lexus RCF driver is showing less effort and that's a bad thing; or look at it this way, the M4 requires more effort and that's a good thing

[123sub]

Why can Lexus produce a N/A V8 in 2014 and not BMW? If Lexus can do this, then i cant understand why ///M will "ruin" the heart With a 3.0 Turbo. Why?

[F32Fleet]

Reminds me of the M4 vs new Alpina D3

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by 123sub

Why can Lexus produce a N/A V8 in 2014 and not BMW? If Lexus can do this, then i cant understand why ///M will "ruin" the heart With a 3.0 Turbo. Why?

Because they will sell 20 cars. BMW will sell 70k

[zer0cool]

I ll watch this video when I get the chance.

Seeing the responses, definitely many BMW fans here. I am also a BMW fan, but not a superfan I guess...

I think looks are totally subjective, and I like Lexus IS/RC looks way more than BMW 3/4. Also based on experience (I owned a Lexus GS Fsport for a year or so, and drove multiple Lexuses during maintenance etc), Lexus interior quality and feel > BMW (this is true at every class level). Both my wife and I now drive BMWs, so we love BMW, but I just objectively cannot say BMW > Lexus in quality... It is clearly the other way around. Also Lexus >> BMW in comfort in every way.

However, Lexus engines are still naturally aspirated. I cannot buy that, since I don't drive cars on a track, and hate driving a car at high rev. I really wish somehow there can be a hybrid (not gas electric hybrid) car where one puts BMW M3 engine, transmission, suspension, etc in a IS/RC F body with say Lexus GS interior... However such a car doesn't exist... So If I want a car that handles well, accelerates well, stable, changes gear well, etc, at fairly low revs, I got no choice but to buy a BMW.

Why can't there be a car that drives like a M3, and is as comfortable and quiet as Lexus GS?

[rjpeaks]

like to see the comments on the Lex forum.

opposite.

hahahahahaha

[tkila]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

Not sure why Lexus decided to use part of the GS chassis. Surely if they built specifically over the IS chassis, it would've been lighter and performed better.

GS chassis is way superior than the IS. I've driven both the new GS and IS and felt the GS chassis more tied down to the road with less body roll than the IS. The IS rolls way too much, though IS transmission is more responsive than GS.

I think it's the large, heavy V8 up front that's hurting the handling of the RCF. It is surprising to see the RCF being heavier than the GS sedan, which has a lighter V6 engine. The RCF would handle better if it had lighter V6 up front to reduce understeer.

[Kenu8187]

I'm surprised at how close the lap times were given the advantages the M4 has in acceleration, lateral G, weight and braking.

The massive amounts of torque delivered across the rev range is causing the M4 to lose grip just like he says in the video. Simply put some 295 size tires on there or maybe 305 and a little bit more negative camber and a completely different monster would be born.

[123sub]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Because they will sell 20 cars. BMW will sell 70k

Is the reason that Lexus can do it because of the low number produced, and BMW are not allowed because the opposite? Is BMW because of high Production of M3/4 not allowed. Is that so?

[surewin]

Geez- 4k lbs for a coupe? That's too much.

Carlos and Randy are the only reason why I watch MT, and both of them made this a great episode.

[Wolf]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

How the roles have changed. When it was the W204 C63 AMG and E9X M3, everyone was complaining how the C63 was a lot harder to control, you needed a driver that knew what they were doing vs. the E9X M3 where it was a lot easier to control/handle. The F8X now plays the role of the old C63 AMG where it's a handful because of all the power/TQ and the RC F is like the E9X M3, fully capable and a lot easier to drive but people are saying that like it's a negative thing...

+1 I came here to post exactly the same thing.. we are a bunch of hypocrites on this forum

[PCR0303]

Originally Posted by 123sub

Why can Lexus produce a N/A V8 in 2014 and not BMW? If Lexus can do this, then i cant understand why ///M will "ruin" the heart With a 3.0 Turbo. Why?

Idk about "ruining" the heart of the BMW but keep in mind that companies perhaps have different mindsets in achieving similar goals, one being more fuel efficient and powerful at the same time. I don't know myself but I'm just giving an opinion that in the case of BMW, they went the downsizing route with turbos first in the M5 and then of course M3/M4 to improve fuel efficiency. Whereas Lexus didn't want to downsize from a V8 yet incorporated an atkinsons cycle and decylinder activation to increase the RC-F's fuel efficiency. It's not a matter of can or can't, it's just different ideals. Another example would be that BMW offers carbon ceramic brakes whereas Lexus doesn't offer it at all on the RC-F because they "feel" it doesn't need it.

[Accel Junky]

I was surprised to see how close the lap times were considering how much the M3 trounced the RC-F in every performance category. I think that is a testament to the M3s weakness in putting down the power more than anything magical about the RC-F.

The N/A V8 sounds great though. But I really appreciate that Randy Pobst commented on how the M4 sounds almost like a V8 as well. I feel the same way. It has an angry quality to it from the interior that sounds almost V8-like.

As for the looks of the RC-F... this is all I will say:

[DrtyJrze]

Originally Posted by trinim3

Doubt your post is directed at me, but just in case I am not saying at all that I dislike that the M4 is a handful. I actually LOVE IT. But I also am a graduate of Skip Barber and Bondurant Formula driving schools and so I can appreciate the nuances the M4 let's a skilled driver explore. But for the average driver, the RS5 and "easier" cars to drive at the limit may very well put down a better lap at the track.

This is what they said in the video. The RCF was pretty much maxed out performance wise whereas the M4 had more to offer if they were willing to push it.

[Jim B]

The new Lexuses (Lexi?) are BUTT UGLY!! Not only that you can't get the RC-F with 6MT. This makes it a deal killer for me. It just makes me more anxious to get my M4 which is due at Port Huenene on Nov. 19.

[Haywood]

Originally Posted by zer0cool

I ll watch this video when I get the chance.

Seeing the responses, definitely many BMW fans here. I am also a BMW fan, but not a superfan I guess...

I think looks are totally subjective, and I like Lexus IS/RC looks way more than BMW 3/4. Also based on experience (I owned a Lexus GS Fsport for a year or so, and drove multiple Lexuses during maintenance etc), Lexus interior quality and feel > BMW (this is true at every class level). Both my wife and I now drive BMWs, so we love BMW, but I just objectively cannot say BMW > Lexus in quality... It is clearly the other way around. Also Lexus >> BMW in comfort in every way.

However, Lexus engines are still naturally aspirated. I cannot buy that, since I don't drive cars on a track, and hate driving a car at high rev. I really wish somehow there can be a hybrid (not gas electric hybrid) car where one puts BMW M3 engine, transmission, suspension, etc in a IS/RC F body with say Lexus GS interior... However such a car doesn't exist... So If I want a car that handles well, accelerates well, stable, changes gear well, etc, at fairly low revs, I got no choice but to buy a BMW.

Why can't there be a car that drives like a M3, and is as comfortable and quiet as Lexus GS?

Please don't take this personally, but if you haven't owned an E92 M3, then you can't really compare. You're stating on a M3 forum that you don't like high revving engines when the S65 is one of the best high revving engines BMW or anyone has ever produced. It's obviously not for everyone, but we own M3's because of the engine. It is an enthusiasts car. All others will choose a base 3 series for an all around BMW to drive. Lexus builds nice cars that are more about comfort, infotainment, and quality. Most of their buyers aren't interested in what M3 owners are looking for. They've changed their exteriors looks so much that they've made them ugly IMO. When you can't beat your competition, they try radical changes. I don't think I'll see many of these on the road. The same as an IS-F.