Selling the M4 to get a ZL1 1LE, any thoughts?

[rexb16]

Originally Posted by hellrotm

The 1LE literally has some of the best suspension bits money can buy. The spool valve shocks by Multimatic on the 1LE are world renown and used on multiple exotic cars. No shock/spring package in BMW’s history of a company has come close to the 1LE suspension.

it's only good if it actually works. in this case they were broken. again, fuck GM.

[hellrotm]

They do work, they are run by WEC and IMSA teams. Races and championships won on Multimatic spool-valve shocks. One broken shock does not mean Multimatic are junk. You can't get any better shocks in the world to be honest. They are also used on Aston Martin Vulcan, One-77, Ford GT, AMG GT.

[jdOTM4]

one just ran up on me on a freeway... thing is ungodly sounding and fast. if my car wasnt tuned I'm pretty sure it wouldve got me. this thing definitely pulls.

[aerostar]

Originally Posted by jdOTM4

one just ran up on me on a freeway... thing is ungodly sounding and fast. if my car wasnt tuned I'm pretty sure it wouldve got me. this thing definitely pulls.

Pretty sure your car (from the mods I see on the left there) is still plenty slower than one. Maybe he was half throttle.

[TheBasicGentlemen]

So I own a 17 Camaro 1LE (non ZL1) and after reading some the amusing comments I have to say its an amazing platform. Is it heavier than a M? Absolutely... Do it sound way better than a M? Hell yes... Obviously this is a personal choice hopefully the OP made a choice he's happy with.

The handling and braking for the 1LE in ZL1 and non ZL1 form is incredible. The eDiff, Mag shocks are just a great combo. The ZL1 gets an even better suspension setup mind you. The interior is in my opinion not at all bad, its purposeful and without some of the things many don't care about. The Recaro seats and Alcantara wheel/shift knob are nice touches. Not a German lux coupe for sure but focused nonetheless. I considered a M4 and decided to go with a 1LE for a variety of reasons. I think bang for the buck its one of the best handling platforms on the market. Its insanely reliable and fast, thats before you throw any mods at it. The ZL1 just amplifies all of that.

Im currently looking for my next project car and considering a M3 or a GTR. The reason is I over built my car LOL, way too much power and noise with a 416 stroker, F1A-94 and cam its not ever quiet. Throw in the R888R tires and man she's audible LOL. Ultimately we should drive what puts a smile on our faces. Both cars are fun and just get their differently

[minn19]

clutchdj, I'll put my thought here on it instead of thread jacking the other thread and getting people angry etc.

If anyone cares I traded in my M4 CS for 19 ZL1 1LE and in this thread a I give my reasons for doing it. This is my last gasp at a fun dual purpose track car so if it goes the route of my GT350 reliability wise I'm not sure what I would buy as I still need back seats for my nine year old.

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1651610

Honestly, I think these cars are so different I've had a hard time comparing them. First off all M3/4 variants (except the GTS) are street cars that can be driven at the track. The ZL1 1LE is more aligned with a track car that can be driven on the street IMO.

Visibility: Yes it sucks, but with the blind spot help and correct mirror placement one can quickly adjust.

Cabin: It is tight/cramped and I'm still adjusting to it/feel a little claustrophobic from time to time. Obviously some controls look/feel chincy and it isn't as nice as the M3/4s. I've always said BMW is the ergonomic king and that is no different here. The Nav screen in the Camaro tilts down awkwardly and nobody really knows why, but it is doable.

GM did think out some cabin stuff very nicely though. The Recaros are the most comfortable seats I've had in a long time and the shifter also has a perfect feel/placement to it for me. The infotainment is fast and intuitive which is nice, but I rarely use any of that. It has many more performance options in the dash and much more info when it comes to temps etc on the car than the M3/4. Everything I need can be controlled from the steering wheel so I rarely even look at the Nav/infotainment screen. It also comes with a heated alcantara steering wheel and ventilated/heated power seats.

The trunk is tiny and the rear seats are unusable except for a gym bag and kids.

Drive: I've only put a hundred miles on it as I'm waiting for my A/S set to show up so I don't wreck the R compound Goodyears it came on. Tire sizes are 305/30/19 and 325/19/30 so as one can imagine coupled with Multimatic's DSSV spool valve dampers there is plenty of grip when temps are correct. But, because of that setup the ride is very stiff and bouncy, but not bad on at all on decent roads. On bad roads it flat out sucks as Jonny Liberman says in his Ignition video. It reminds me of my static suspension on the old civic M3s without the jarring or getting knocked off line. Overall it does have a very nice solid/confident feel to it and it is my favorite steering feel of all of my recent cars. Most reviewers say the GT350 wins between the Ms and Camaro, but I never got that with my GT350.

I've driven quite a few different manuals over the years and the 6MT in this car is by far my favorite. The throws are nice and short with a very direct engagement feel. The clutch is weighted very nicely while staying consistent. MY GT350 clutch would change in feel fairly dramatically over the course of a single drive when it heated up and cooled down. My M3s was very nice as well, but pretty long throws compared to this and could feel a bit vague rubbery from time to time. Also another very good thought by GM was selectable rev matching for the 6MT. They retain the autos shift paddles, but in the manual one is for turning on the rev match and then other is obviously for turning it off. This can be done in any drive mode or T/C mode.

Brakes: Easily better than the M3/4 and even my GT350 which had excellent brakes as well. This was always my most disappointing part of any previous Ms was the soft brake pedal feel. Then my CS iron brakes faded badly the first track outing I did on them. I obviously haven't tracked this car, but I'll trust the reviews and looks that they won't.

You would have to get the CCBs on the BMW to get the same feel/fade resistant stopping power. BUt, I always shied away from them because of their low temp characteristics and sky parts replacement costs.

Looks: Obviously subjective, but I love both for different reasons. The M3/4 CS are some of favorite looking cars of all time and are beautiful. I also think the ZL1 looks better than the ZL1 1LE. The 1LE does look a bit childish with the big wing and dive planes. But, they are very functional and I plan on bringing this to Road America next year where it will come into play.

Engine: Again, I only have a 100 miles on the car so it is very hard to compare the two. I can tell even during the break in this will obviously pull extremely hard through the rev range. But, so did the S55, especially with the CS tune and speed was/is never the problem I had any M3/4. I'm hoping the supercharged V8 is smoother as I still didn't like the peakiness of the S55, especially in certain mid corner applications. I can also tell the S55 will kick the crap out of any ZL1 in the MPG department.

TC modes: As everyone here knows on the M3/4 you get MDM or off. In the Zl1 there are at least seven and maybe more, I haven't finished exploring them yet.

Track/manufacturer support: Again GM was very thoughtful here on a few different things. The ZL1 1Le comes with air scoops that can be added to the underneath of the car to help with cooling. It also has a plastic piece for the hood/heat extractor that can be removed for the track for extra cooling/breath ability. They recommend it stays in for street driving to keep the rain out. There are also pieces that can be added to the rear of the car for added down force. Also the car comes with camber plates installed and the front is adjustable up or down 10mm. No adjustability for the rear though. Normal ride height clearance is surprisingly good as I've never scraped my splitter on the normal spots I used to with My MP HAS equipped ZCP M3 (set to BMW recommended height).

GM also states as long as the car is unmodified (obviously) and you are not doing a timed event they will honor the warranty if you track/drag it.

Hopefully this adventure goes better than my last try with a US brand. If one is interested in a Zl1 my advice would be to get a Mag Ride A10/MT if you never plan to track it. If you do then I think you owe it to take a look at a Zl1 1LE, you may surprised at what you find.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by minn19

I'll put my thought here on it instead of thread jacking the other thread and getting people angry etc.

Congrats. I'll be surprised if you find it anything other than properly sturdy (including brakes) and blisteringly fast on track. Definitely dial in the track settings from GM pre-track. Big car, needs optimum alignment and settings to really perform as designed. The small street to factory track setting adjustment in mine made a world of handling difference.

Trofeo R to PS4S transformed ride on my Z. Your switch to all seasons won't make it a comfortable cruiser on rough northern latitude roads, but will make a meaningful difference.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Congrats. I'll be surprised if you find it anything other than properly sturdy (including brakes) and blisteringly fast on track. Definitely dial in the track settings from GM pre-track. Big car, needs optimum alignment and settings to really perform as designed. The small street to factory track setting adjustment in mine made a world of handling difference.

Trofeo R to PS4S transformed ride on my Z. Your switch to all seasons won't make it a comfortable cruiser on rough northern latitude roads, but will make a meaningful difference.

Thanks for the response/advice, much appreciated. The nice thing is my BMW service department has some GM car guys in it that still want to work on my car and are a part of my local BMWCCA chapter. So I’ll definitely be taking it to them for track alignment/camber setup help next spring.

I’m not expecting the switch to A/S help with the ride much. I don’t want to wreck the R comp Goodyear’s driving them in cold temps (cracking). I’ll take it out in the winter if it is dry and the temps here are already in the 40s in the AM. So this is already limiting being able to take it out or drive it to work. ARC-8s arrive Monday so I can get a set together and on the car.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by minn19

Thanks for the response/advice, much appreciated. The nice thing is my BMW service department has some GM car guys in it that still want to work on my car and are a part of my local BMWCCA chapter. So I’ll definitely be taking it to them for track alignment/camber setup help next spring.

I’m not expecting the switch to A/S help with the ride much. I don’t want to wreck the R comp Goodyear’s driving them in cold temps (cracking). I’ll take it out in the winter if it is dry and the temps here are already in the 40s in the AM. So this is already limiting being able to take it out or drive it to work. ARC-8s arrive Monday so I can get a set together and on the car.

Yeah, you don't want to try the 3R's anywhere near freezing temps. Won't live to see the deterioration

Apple didn't fall far from the tree Z/28 --> 1LE DSSV. Trofeo R/3R have zero compliance, sidewall give. Think you'll be pleasantly surprised on the change in ride quality with street-oriented tires. It won't handle for shit or put the power down, but that's the trade-off. At least you'll get it out of the garage every once in a while.

[Mthrice]

Originally Posted by Salespunk

A GT3 is going to require work to make it fit for sustained track use. Even the mighty Metzger motors had issues around RMS, coolant hoses needing to be pinned, etc. As a side note my buddy is on his fourth motor in his 991.1 GT3 with zero track use. It was not abuse based, they were manufacturing issues. You will also have the Porsche tax for everything you buy which is like the BMW tax x2.

Fourth motor! Good thing all the replacements were frreeeee